41 Plymouth Headlight Rim Question

[Andydodge]

Have noticed that the Headlight Rim on my 41 Plymouth is made up of 3 parts,

1. the inner rim which holds the headlight lens onto the adjusting bucket.

2. the outer "pear" shaped chromed diecast surround that has the park lens above the headlight and

3. theres a "middle" piece.....this middle piece is held on at its lower edge by just the screwhead from the outer rim piece and by some locating tangs around its upper edge into the top of the outer rim........it seems to be loose at either side around the rim, with no means of holding it tight between the inner & outer rims .....is this how its supposed to be?.......I have no other 41 Plymouth to look at to help me here so any info or a REAL CLOSE pic of someone elses car would be of interest.....thanks, andyd

[40phil41]

Andy,

My Canadian '41 Dodge headlight assembly is just like you describe for your '41 Plymouth. Unfortunately, the car is in winter storage until early May so I can't even take a look for you. However, someone on this forum posted a complete description of the two (or three ?) different headlight assembly types that were available in 1941. If you do a forum search you may be able to find it.

Phil

[Roadkingcoupe]

Three types of 1941 Plymouth (Canadian Dodge) headlamp doors/marker lights.

1- Cast Pot Metal solid headlamp "DOOR" with matching "raised" marker light

2- Cast Pot Metal solid headlamp "DOOR" with matching "FLAT" marker light,

(looks a lot like 1940 Plymouth Headlamp door, fools most eBay sellers)

3- Stamped steel outer Headlamp door with metal inner frame and seperate

marker light. (Three part assembly).

[Skrambler]

Andyd,

Drop me a line on a private message and I'll forward you photos and information. I have troubles posting on this site, as well as others:(

Thanks.

[Andydodge]

Thanks for the replies guys, my cars headlight surround that has the parking light cast into it is made of diecast pot metal, the inner headlight lens surround that holds the actual lens to the adjuster bucket is stamped steel, maybe stainless, and the middle piece which is the one I was asking about is also what appears to be stamped out of stainless, its about 3/8th in width and is held as mentioned above purely by the head of the outer rims lower screw and some pieces that slip underneath the diecast rims upper shape.........very odd......Skrambler I'll send a PM.........andyd

[anthonyb]

Andy,

Checked my '41 yesterday and found exactly what you described. They've been on there for over ten years now with no problems.

AnthonyB

[Jim Yergin]

Andy,

My '41 P12 originally had the die cast headlamp doors that Roadkingcoupe described in his #1. I replaced them with the stamped steel ones that he described in his #2. No pitting or re-chroming needed with the steel ones. The steel ones do not have that inner piece you are talking about but incorporate that ring as part of the surround. Here is a picture of mine along with the section from the '41 manual showing what you described.

Here's what the manual says:

"1. Remove the screw at the bottom of the headlight rim and unhook the rim at the top by pulling it outward."

Jim Yergin

[40phil41]

FWIW, this is the only photo I have of my '41 Canadian Dodge headlight.

Phil

[Andydodge]

Anthony,Jim & Phil, many thanks for the info.......where did you get the steel headlight surrounds Jim?.......this is crazy.....lol......just like my 40 Dodge(which as an Oz built car has 40 plymouth surrounds and I have found both steel and diecast surrounds & it has the steel ones on it ).....couldn't Plymouth make up its mind about what to make stuff out of?.......I'd prefer the steel ones any day as whilst they can rust out they don't get all pimply like the diecast ones.........Jim if ever you come across a spare set of steel 1941 Plymouth Headlight surrounds that you don't want, I'll be happy to help you find a home for them........lol........thanks, andyd

[Jim Yergin]

Andy,

I found them years ago at Chryslers at Carlisle. Probably the first and last time I ever found any old Mopar parts at that swap meet (predominately muscle car era otherwise). I will keep an eye out for them for you.

Jim Yergin

[Andydodge]

Jim, thanks.........are they common?.seems rather odd that there are 3 different types of headlight surrounds and 2 styles of parking light lens..............almost like........on the Plymouth production line........"Hey...Fred what day is it?........do we put the steel or diecast surrounds on today or tomorrow?"......lol..........andyd

[Jim Yergin]

Andy,

I don't think they are common. I have seen a heck of a lot more of the die cast ones. I don't know the reasons for the variety. I always thought the ones with the flat parking lights were very early in the run and the stand up ones replaced them. As for the materials used, I had the impression that it had to do with the unavailability of certain materials because of the war. Maybe there was a need to save on chrome that caused the use of stainless steel. I also know that there were front grill panels made out of aluminum instead of steel. Would be interesting to know the real reason.

Jim Yergin

[Andydodge]

Jim, the funny thing is that yrs ago, before I even thought about getting a 41 Plymouth, I'd regularly see 41 Plymouth parts at swap meets more than any 1940 Dodge/Plymouth parts.......the diecast headlight surrounds would turn up as well as the flat style 41 Plymouth parking light lens and chromed surround to hold it onto the headlight surround, I even bought a pair myself as they musta been pretty cheap, but sold them yrs ago too......and there was an old parts shop here in Oz that had a box of about 50 NOS 1941 Plymouth boot handle/tailight bezels, lens,bezel and handle, all mint, I bought one and have had it for maybe 30 yrs, lol, no one I've spoken to knows why these 41 Plymouth bits were here as the number of 41 Plymouths made in Oz then would have been very small as the country had been at war since 1939 and car production essentially stopped then, I have only ever seen one 1941 Plymouth sedan and a couple of 1941 ex army style Utes in over 35 yrs......my 41 Plymouth Coupe is an ex Sth African built car, supposedly imported into Oz in the 1990's and restored here......so 1941 Plymouths are a rare commodity here in Oz......again thanks for the info, regards, andyd