42 DeSoto Fifth Avenue

Interesting piece. How wide is it? The crest in the center with the Hernando Bust on the shield looks to be 49/52 vintage. The two screw? holes are for mounting it, I guess, but to what. The crest also reminds me of the aftermarket keys that often are for sale on EBay. Some sort of aftermarket add on?

Hi Bob, I went down the rabbit hole of my Master Parts book (4"s thick!) and as near as I can tell the change over from the internal, external and co-axial PS systems came in 1953. All the 54 Chryslers and DeSotos have the coaxial. I attached the page so you can see the 3 types. The coaxial between the firewall and the steering gearbox is real thick as it encases the steering column. Hope this helps. Ed

I too, went to YouTube. I found quite a few 53/54/55 Powerflite Master Techs but I didn't find any on Power Steering, especially the Co-Axial that I have on my 54 Coronado. You have that on your Chrysler, correct? I do have that record/strip that could be copied. o

Bob, I found this on YOuTube

Bob, In answer to your question about captions. I will have to take a look and see if I have any that don't have the record. My guess is that all of the MoPar service training strips and the Ross Roy sales strips had records. What I don't know and would be curious about is when Chrysler started using this medium in the 30s. It seems that the service training started after WWII and the sales info/training were in use earlier. I will check out the 54 Chrysler sets that I have to see if the records work. I am I correct that the company can add the sound track? Since this thread got started, I found my 1942 DeSoto strip and record. I'd like to get it and the Coronado transferred. Do you think the company would give a package price for doing four at a time? Marc, you in?

So who's going first?

Looking through the parts book I found this number 683995 "headlight cable terminal block" . It was used at least from 38-42. I took a look at the wiring diagram and from it looks of it that terminal for the front headlights and the parking lights has three connections, not two as in the 41 pictured above. It's the same on the 41 S8 wiring diagram. This number, 913297, "Parking light cable socket - cable terminal block" you would only need it you have turn signals and they are wired in parallel. It looks to have only two terminals and is most like located on the back of the dashboard. As to where you can find 683995, it didn't how up on EBay so you would have to try the MoPar part supplier guys, Bernbaum, etc

The guts for my 42 DeSoto 5th Avenue cigarette dispensing steering wheel. You can see from the photo there is spring that pushes the cig into the dispensing slot and then the spring, push rod and knob that push the cig out so the driver can grasp it.

I cannot figure out how to get this picture to load right side up. Here is the wiring diagram for the 42. I looked at one of my 42s and I think the junction block is on the driver's side fender well liner just behind the battery box.

If I it happens I'll contact you. You might want to check out the Imperial Club site to see if they have made them available there.

Hopefully this helps a bit. From the VIN number what's know is that your car was built for export in Detroit. Whether the car was complete when it was shipped or was a 'knock-down' (needed to be assembled once it reached its' destination). I don't know. Your car is the top of the line Custom would be identified as an S11-C. The steering wheel is the best DeSoto offered that year. There are other folks on this site who have 46-49 S11s who may know more about decoding the body tag. I'd guess that the RD is most likely the radio and specifically one of three radios made for export. These are the 602, the 608 and the Universal. The 602 and 608 mounted in the dash, the universal under the dash. So you have either the 602 0r 802. You have the paint code 227 and I found one listing for it, Lupine Blue, and it was used on the 1935 DeSoto. The blue colors listed at the reference site, https://paintref.com/paintref/make/blue_DeSoto.shtml , are Carmel Blue with codes 213 & 214 and Monterey Blue with codes 216 & 217. I can't locate my copy of the S-11 parts book to look up the trim code. I looked in the 1942 DeSoto Export Parts Book and in the domestic 1942 DeSoto parts book and neither of them list the trim code 917. So it would seem that these codes indicate either a special order or they are for export only and so not listed in my sources. I'd encourage you to join the National DeSoto Club. There is a club website and a FaceBook page. There is at least one NDC member who owns a 1942 DeSoto and there is another guy who is active on the FB who is restoring one. There may be other 46-48 S11 owners in Oz or New Zealand that you can contact through the membership roster. What we know from the work the 42 owner did on his car and its' history was that it was part of a group of DeSotos and Chryslers that were shipped from the States. Some were off loaded in South Africa and then the remainder in Australia. I'd suspect that a similiar shipping process happened with your car. It's a great DeSoto. Enjoy!

I have (somewhere) a VHS tape that is introducing the 1942 DeSoto. It was either used to train the sales staff or directly with customers. I also have the original strip/record. I may have had it converted to VHS years back (80s?) or I may have bought it from Harold Doebel. He still advertises in the WPC club newsletter and now sells 'DVD' one of which is 1936-61 DeSoto factory promos and commercials. I'm guessing he may have converted the VHS to disc. If anyone is in the neighborhood of Ocean Gate, NJ who could make personal contact with him, it might be worth an effort. Perhaps he has a way of transferring the strips/records. He doesn't have email, so it's by phone or snail mail or in person. I have a box of 22 strips and records which are part of the Master Technician Service Reference Book resource that Chrysler provided to service departments. Volume 3 is missing 'Valves' and 'Steering gear'. Volume 4 is complete with 12 strips. I'd be willing to make these available if a way can be found to convert the format. In the same pile where the 42 DeSoto set was I found one for 1954 DeSoto/Chrysler Powermatic transmission, one for the 54 (late) and 55 Coaxial power steering and one introducing the 1954 Coronado! I will have to see if my projector/record player still works! Wouldn't it be nice for the MoPar community if the Imperial Club would share their technology?? Just saying.

Do you have a source for the info that the M-5 was used on 'late 42-48 DeSoto and Chrysler?

Plymouth never had the Fluid Drive, only a regular clutch with the standard 3spd tranny. That was an option on the 51 DeSoto. You can use that and ditch the FD/M-5 set up. You could add to that a 50s Borg Warner OD for highway cruising. Lots of of folks on this site have done that and there's info in the technical section. . My master parts list (4.1.55 version) list this part number for 'Fluid Drive w/clutch driving plate" 1320 563. It is listed as fitting 41-53 6s. The same number is listed for 41-54 Dodge 6s and 41-53 Chrysler 6s. A different part number is listed for 52-53 Hemis. Looks like your landlord 46 DeSoto is the best fit donor.

There is/was a 1942 DeSoto RHD 4dr sedan in Australia that belonged to a member of the National DeSoto Club. I'm not sure if he is still living. Also 15 years back or so, I knew a guy who immigrated from California to Australia (maybe NZ) who was a rodder. He was making a project car that had the front clip from the 42 DeSoto (the rest of the car I have) and it was on I think a Chrysler. Lost track of the guy but if the car is on the rodder show circuit down under there are probably pictures. Here is a page from the Spanish version of the 42 DeSoto Export brochure.

Somewhere in my basement I have a working (at least when I stored it) record player/filmstrip projector that dealers used for these film strips. I need to dig it out. I know that one of my filmstrip/records is the dealer introduction to the 1954 DeSoto Coronado.

Is it a 6 or an 8? If it is a 6 cylinder then a lot of your 'extra' DeSoto parts will fit. If it's an 8 cylinder not a lot will interchange. Ed K

I too, have some non-Imperial film strips that I would like to transfer to YOuTube or other media where they can be useful. Does anyone have a line on what's the process for transferring? I suspect that hardest part is the film strip projector adapter. I think I also may have a couple of sets with records and the booklets, etc but no film strip. I also have an old VHS tape of the Ross Roy intro for the 1942 De Soto De Luxe model. I think I got this back in the early 90s. Wish I had the original record and film strip. Here I need instructions on how to hook up the VHS player to my lap top a nd what kind of file format to use. Every once and awhile I wonder if somewhere in Detroit there sits a file cabinet full of paperwork somebody's Grandpa saved from Ross Roy where he worked. And in that paperwork is an index to all the Ross Roy filmstrip/record/booklet kits they produced for DDCP. We know there were dealer sales training kits for the sales force on the the different cars, but when were they first produced? We know that beginning in 47(?) the mechanics training sets began that are a great resource. Was anything comparable produced for 1942 and earlier models... Thanks for starting this thread, Marc!

I've got a couple of 54 DeSoto parts cars. In the old days did folks upgrade the brake systems from the 40 Dodges and Plymouths to the bigger Chrysler and DeSoto systems to get more braking power? I'm considering the 'recycle, reuse' alternative of installing the DeSoto brakers on a 1940 Plymouth to the cost of a disc conversion. Thoughts??? THanks, Ed

My experience out in the southwest with a 49 DeSoto that spent its life in Albuquerque was that the water jackets were filled with sand/mud/crud. I used a pressure washer to flush it out and I had to pull out the freeze plugs to get it all out. The distribution tube came out fairly easily with the hook/puller. Ed K

Hi Floyd >>>Here are the numbers off the car: Desoto Motor Corp Body Number (Firewall): 101-2-2759 Briggs Mfg Co Number (Firewall): 432-4117 Engine Number: S10-19909 The engine number on my 5th Avenue, which was built 10.27.1941, is S10 12169, the number on the last Custom built, 5 783 503, is either S10 22830 or S10 23 830 - both are stamped on the "Final Assembly Record", it looks to have been built on Jan 28 1942. It was a 7 PASS SEDAN special order # 8200. An export RHD built also on Jan 28 1942 has an engine number S10 22 451 VIN (serial Number on Pass Door post): 5 781 785. It will be interesting to see what your build date ends up being. You car is only 1718 from the end of production. At one time I thought I had an idea on how many cars were produced on an average day. But I've misplaced it. Here's my research on these numbers: 1942 De Sotos carry three and in some cases, four identification numbers. I’ve compiled this info from on car inspections. I’ve only inspected 1 Custom 3 passenger coupe and convertible both belonging to Ray Reiss in Seattle. There were no firewall tags on the convertible. VIN or SERIAL NUMBER The VIN number is located on a plate attached to the front pillar of the right front door (passenger side). ENGINE NUMBER This number is stamped on the left side of the engine block, below the cylinder head. It is located on the left (driver’s side) upper front corner of the block. If you look above and behind the generator you should be able to see it. The correct engine number begins with S-10 followed by a number between 1001 and 24 551. BODY NUMBER PLATES Located on the firewall in the engine compartment there are at least one, and perhaps two, data plates. They are about 1” by 11/2” stamped plates. All 42s have a ‘DeSOTO DIVISION” Body Number Plate. This number is a series: XXX-y-ZZZZ. XXX - For the S-10S & S-10 it will be 100. For the S-10C it will be 101 For the S-10C Custom with a factory installed “Fifth Avenue Ensemble” it will be 102. Y - This will be a single digit, between 1 and 8, that designates body style. 1....................(3 pass. coupe?) 5....................4 Door Sedan 2....................5 passenger Club coupe 6....................4 Door Town Sedan 3....................(Convertible coupe?) 7...................,(7 pass. Sedan?) 4....................2 Door Sedan (Brougham) 8....................(7 pass. Limo?) ZZZZ - This is the ‘Body Number’ referred to in the 1942 Parts List. I don't know if this is sequential or not. Coupes have a ‘BRIGGSMFN’ Body Number Plate. This number is a series: vvv-wwww. vvv- 432........5 passenger Club Coupe. Codes for the convertible and 3-passenger coupe not yet identified. wwww - This may be a Briggs Manufacturing ‘Body Number’ refered to in the Parts List

Is this a Custom or DeLuxe coupe? Should say so on the cowl panel and the radio medallion. Can you post the numbers? The VIN on passenger door post (or is it the driver side?), on the firewall there are two plates, one is the DeSoto Motors number the other is Briggs number - coupes (or coupe bodies) were apparently build in the Briggs facility as this plate doesn't appear on any other body type. Where are you located and who was the gentleman who started the project? Did you get any other history of the car like previous owners, etc. Here are some responses to your questions My car has the following options: Simplimatic Drive Sportsman Package with leather Bolsters on the seats. This is supposedly quite rare. Yes it is. This option was offered first on the 41 DeSoto coupes. There is a seperate sales brochure covering the car. it comes up on EBay from time to time and may be of interest to you. From what I can garner in 1942 i was offered on all body styles. An August 2000 issue of SIA has a restoration article on this exact car and the owner stated it was the only known one then with the Sportsman package. I have only seen one in my 42 hunts. If I remember it is the one in the SIA article. The owner at the time I saw the car was Francis O'Connell or Connell, if I remember correctly. He had two, a Custom and a De Luxe for parts. Missing items: rear ashtray door covers that go below quarter windows, buttons for the 42 radio that I purchased for the car (it came originally I'm sure with a 41 radio -- the dealer out here in eastern WA at the time probably only had that radio is my explanation) May or may not be the case. I suggest you get the build sheet from Crysler Historical and it will tell you is the car came with the radio or if the dealer installed it. My 42 Fifth Avenue came from the dealerhip in Bellingham, WA and 10 years ago or so the building was still standing! The correct radio for the 42 is either an 801 or 601. The 802/602 are for 46-48 but will fit. Horn ring. the original was broken off on the top half maybe it was due to an emergency honk! those are pot metal, so don't think I can replace it, Can you post a picture of the steering wheel. The same wheels, both the standard and the 5th Avenue cigarette dispenser, were used on the 46-48 as were the horn rings, etc. The only difference was the colors of the wheels - 42's were ivory - and the paint trim in the horn ring and the cross piece - on the 42 all these, as well as on other chrome trim, were painted red. New speedometer dial face. The original is so yellowed you can't read the odomter. I may have some new ones made if there is interest by others in these. Can't find that anybody sells them. There was/is a guy in San Rafael, CA who does produce some 40s MoPar speedo screens, but I am not sure if he does the 42. My car has the Lucite Lady hood ornament; don't know if that was an option only (chrome standard). Yes, it seems to have been optional except it was standard on the 5th Avenue. BUT, with the Fed regs on the use of chrome (Blackout Models) DeSoto may have substituted the lucite Lady for the standard chrome one as production got closer to the 12.15.41 regulations Some of the stainless trim is not great on the front fenders. Bent up fairly well. I think 42 is a one off year for that. That is correct for the fender trim with the groove in it. The belt moldings and the two-tone paint chrome were shared with 41 and 42 Dodge and Chryslers. I've got the dash torn down, have the carb mostly rebuilt (special car for 42 and has kickdown switch on it), Similar carb was used on the 41 DeSotos and Chryslers and the 42 was used on the 42 Chryslers I have a new wiring harness for the Simplimatic drive. I need a new water distribution tube for the engine, and have to finish tearing it down and rebuilding it. Not sure what I'll have to do to the transmission. That is the question for the 41/42s. It is a tricky set up which is why Chrysler went to the M-5 in 1946. Some parts are still out there on EBay and from the usual MoPar suppliers for the Simplimatic. I've contempleted for my 5th Avenue a couple of options. One would be to tinker with what's on the car and hope it will run. If not another option is to transplant an M-5. I've seen at least one 42 where this was done - the only change the owner told me he needed to do was use the floorboard from a 46-48. Another option if I wanted to keep the Fluid Drive is look for the parts needed to attach a standard MoPar 3speed. This is what Dodge had after the war. If I could find one I would probably opt for a standard with overdrive from a early 50s MoPar. I'm guessing I could use the Simplimatic lockout cable in place of the OD cable. The fluid drive needs to be flushed. Most people say not to try to take these apart for service. Just flush with fresh oil or add fresh oil. Otherwise, no serious rust issues with this car. And thankfully it's pretty straight. The previous owner started putting some light blue mud on the rear fender. Gone that will soon be! Keep us posted on your progress and keep the pictures coming! Ed K

FYI This is from one of my resources listing Federal actions. The question was asked upstream about the "blackout" regulations. You can see from this list that the regulation went into effect 10/27/41 for implementation beginning 12/15/1941. No doubt Chrysler was planning for this even before the end of October. I have never discovered any sales or dealer literature that provided buyers information on the color schemes, changes to interiors, price changes (?), etc for the "Blackout" DeSotos. There is one magazine ad for the new "Blackout" DeSoto. It appears to be done by the same artist who did the production ads in the fall of 1941 that appeared in Saturday Evening Post, etc. It appeared in the January 17th(?) issue of Collier's Magazine. It notable not only for showing the b/o paint scheme -dark green with light green trim -- but it also shows the car with the hide-away headlights open. The car is emerging from a tunnel. I also have a supplemental parts list issued mid December. About a third the size of the parts manual issued in September, 1941 it shows the changes and subsequent new part numbers for painted trim, etc. It also shows some production changes made between the beginning of production in early August and most likely early November when this went to press. I saw one for sale in EBay for the 42 Dodge so I'd assume one was also produced for Plymouth. Has anyone come across ads or literature for Blackout model Chryslers, Dodges, or Plymouths? Government Orders Curtailing Passenger Car Production Limitation Orders - Base period August 1938 to July 1941 L-2. Effective 9-13-1941 Production limiting individual company quotas, August through November, 1941 Interpretation No. 1 Effective 12-23-1941 Production for governmental use, exempted from quotas. Removes from “quotas” sales by producers or dealers when the government or certain designated agencies take title, or contract to take title at time of sale. L-2-a Effective 10-24-1941 December, 1941 production fixed, by companies. L-2-b Effective 10-27-1941 Brightwork eliminated in production, except on bumpers and bumper guards of new passenger cars after December 15, 1941. Amendment No. 1 Effective 12.10.1941 Production of certain Brightwork parts permitted. Use of all other “Brightwork” inventory permitted to 12.31.1941, if treated to destroy appearance as “Brightwork.” L-2-c Effective 11.7.1941 January, 1942 production quotas fixed, by companies. L-2-d Effective 12.10.1941 February, 1942 production quotas fixed by companies (later revoked) L-2-e Effective 12.24.1941 December, 1941 and January, 1942 production further reduced. Permits some previously authorized December, 1941 production in January, 1942 – also permits use of certain “Brightwork” authorized by Amendment No.1 to L-2-b to be used in January, 1942. Spare Tire Ban --- prevents sale or delivery of any new car with more than four new tires. Amendment No. 1 Effective 1-23-1942 Restored January, 1942 quotas to those originally specified in L-2-c. L-2-f Effective 1.1.1942 Prohibits sale of new automobiles. Amendment No. 1 Effective 1-8-1942 Ban removed on sale to designated government agencies, to A-1-j rated orders and to certain prime contractors. Amendment No. 2 Effective 1-14-1942 Sale ban extended to February 2, 1942 Amendment No. 3 Effective 1-20-1942 Repossession, retaking or transfer of title permitted for contracts entered into prior to 1-1-42 L-2-g Effective 1-21-1942 February, 1942 quotas established by L-2-d revoked. Completion of January, 1942 quotas permitted by Amendment No. 1 to L-2-e, to be completed before February 11, 1942 L-2-h Effective 1-31-1942 Cadillac production of 719 ambulance chassis allowed up to January 31, 1942 L-2-i Effective 3-9-1942 Prevents dispersal of inventories. (SOURCE – The passenger car limitation orders were issued by the Way Production Board and its predecessors.) The information above was taken from page 42 of “Automotive News 1942 Almanac 9th Annual Review and Reference Book” from the collection of Ed Katzenberger.

The attached file is of two sales transactions at Kline Motors.I hope it is legible as this is my first time to upload a scan. One is from May 23rd 1942 the other from 1943. THe first is a 42 Plymouth sold to another dealer. There were 5-6 transactions for that date, most were Plymouths. I think that there may have been some sort of action by the Feds and/or Chrysler that released for sale a number of cars that had been frozen on January 1st, 1942. The second one from 1943 looks to be to a buyer. Note that the car is loaded with option packages, including the P.B.S (push button starter) and white side wall tires. white side walls were embargod by the Feds prior to the release of the 43 models so officially no cars came from the factory with them. But depending on when this car left DeSoto in Detroit it very well could have as at the end of production after 12/7 the stock of parts apparently was cleaned out. I've come across two 42 DeSotos in my travels that point to this.On one the steering wheel was from a 42 Dodge. The car was being restored by the son-in-law of the original owner and he told me his in-laws claim it came that way from the dealer. The other was another 42 DeSoto that I could not get a serial number off of in order to see when it was built. The entire interior was 42 Dodge - door panels, upholstery, window trim. WWII car sales_0003.pdf