Keeping Up with the AoK boys

What a great idea Tim, a great sub-area to discuss issues and solutions, without hassle of those who don't like the topic(s).

I am hoping those who have been castigated for a wrong topic, or personal choice, will now feel comfortable to post there issue and concerns.

Thanx again Tim , for creating this blog, for the purpose of helping others solve there problems or to share their ideas.....

Agree with Fargos-Go-Far. Having been jumped, criticized and mocked I would never post on the forum. 

Just the other day I saw it happy to a 17 year old trying to get help. The same group dive in and hammer

the kid like it was someone leaning on their car.  This is a great idea Tim. You have helped me in the past

with my disaster t5 project and I am sure you have done the same for lots of people. If the forum owner will allow you to do this it would really be an asset to the forum. Looking forward to it. Barb

Hi Barb, thanx for your post/comments, yes all to familiar on here with certain offenders.

I too, really hope 1950dodgefan brings his thread topic, and engine problems to this blog, and hopefully we can all give him a helping hand...

Here is a 265 question, have found a runner in a 51 or 52 2 or 3 ton truck.

This would be , what a 120 hp engine stock?

It is a 1 bbl Carter BB1, and single dump exhaust.

I am leaning toward this engine, front oil pan sump correct?

Cam profile would be designed to run higher RPM than say a combine 265 engine?

Have not worked out a price yet, still need to see it run etc...

Hi Fred - You are right at the cross over there, where in 1951 the biggest engine in a Canadian truck was a 250ci motor. In 1952 the 265 motor arrived. I will attach the dealer poster from 1952.   On the HP front, between 117 - 120 hp if its a 250, and 123 hp and a bit more torque if its a 265. Cam profile will be different than a combine engine, which pulls the torque curve down to a lower RPM, but its the same HP.  You also have an updraft carb on the combine and a different intake and exhaust on the combine engine as well as potentially a different oil pan. The oil pan depended on which combine or swather manufacturer.  So used truck some didn't.

 

With the truck you will have the right oil pan, right intake and exhaust so with that you have less modifications to make.  But, yes there is always a but, the truck cam profile is different than a car profile

so depending on what your putting it in, and what your trying to get in terms of rpm and torque you may

still feel the need to change the cam when the engine is out of the donor truck.

 

But as you will see in the poster there is not a great deal of hp difference between a 250 in 1952 and 1951 although a little more torque.

 

You can also determine the year of the engine by checking the drivers side of the block, down by the oil

pan is the casting date.  Now having said that  if it is after 11 15 51 (nov 11th 1951) it could be a 265 motor and of course they made 250s in 1952. Tons of them.  So easiest way to check that is pull the plug on the head toward the back of the engine, put in a rod, turn the engine over and measure the stroke (top dead center to bottom dead center). If it is 4 1/2"  its a 250 and if its 4 3/4" its a 265.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Hi Tim, thanx for answering, waiting right now, to see and verify if the engine is a 265 for sure, and if it is a decent runner.

I am hoping to add on some power components for HP increases to north of 150 and hopefully 175 hp.

This should be doable, with a change in cam profile, shaved head, tri-carb intake, ans split exhaust...

Great concept boys!   

I built a 265 which we installed in a 50 Plymouth. The torque on get away

would noticeably lift the left front..... not off the ground..... but very

satisfying acceleration in a family four door.  This car had a 3.9 -1 rear

end.  Piston travel is pretty extreme to allow this engine to be a high rev.

 

I would recommend widening and deepening the grooves in the main bearings to increase oil flow to the rods and to a certain extent increase throw off to the cylinder walls. This can be done in a lathe using two center main caps fastened to a face plate to hold the shells then reaching in with a boring tool.

Interesting, and yes AoK does something similar, for anything that will be revving north of 4000.

Now with a 265, hot cam, shaved head, dual or ti intake, split exhaust, would certainly pump out a lot more torque than a 218 or 228.

The 50 Plymouth, did it previously have a 218 under the hood, sounds like the 265 sure woke it up.

You wouldn't happen to have any old pictures would yah..

With  a 4 3/4 inch stroke, you would think they wouldn't rev up, but George Asche is turning out them out revving over 5000 I believe.

I think Tims Velociraptor spins up much north of 5000...

I built a 265 which we installed in a 50 Plymouth. The torque on get away

would noticeably lift the left front..... not off the ground..... but very

satisfying acceleration in a family four door.  This car had a 3.9 -1 rear

end.  Piston travel is pretty extreme to allow this engine to be a high rev.

 

I would recommend widening and deepening the grooves in the main bearings to increase oil flow to the rods and to a certain extent increase throw off to the cylinder walls. This can be done in a lathe using two center main caps fastened to a face plate to hold the shells then reaching in with a boring tool.

Good tip.  We do that regularly, as well as turning the cam bearings to the small hole where you can, which reduced the oil flow to the cam and helps the crank and rod bearings.    If you want to get a slightly better ratio,  I took the pumpkin (rear end gear set) our of a 1946-50 Chrysler which was 3:54 gears.  You can literally pull the axles, drive shaft and switch the rear end pumpkin.  Put it back together and away you go. Its a super simple upgrade.

Interesting, and yes AoK does something similar, for anything that will be revving north of 4000.

Now with a 265, hot cam, shaved head, dual or ti intake, split exhaust, would certainly pump out a lot more torque than a 218 or 228.

The 50 Plymouth, did it previously have a 218 under the hood, sounds like the 265 sure woke it up.

You wouldn't happen to have any old pictures would yah..

With  a 4 3/4 inch stroke, you would think they wouldn't rev up, but George Asche is turning out them out revving over 5000 I believe.

I think Tims Velociraptor spins up much north of 5000...

Very true. Actually George's daily driver which is a 1950 Plymouth 4 door with a small block 230 ci motor hits 5 grand in a heart beat.  His 1929 Desoto is a bored out 265 with a 1023 cam in it ( 400 lift and 252 degrees of duration and it can crank 5,000-5,500.  My 1949 Plymouth is 435 lift 258 degrees of duration and

will crank to 6.000  rpm and our Velociraptor  is 280 degrees duration and 446 lift and has no problem spinning north of 7,000 rpm. Both my 49 and the Dragster started their lives as 265 ci motors. They are definitely highly modified but the primary ingredient to get higher rev, and more torque is the cam.

Those are wild RPMs, I do know even my modern 5.7 liter Hemi spins up to 6 grand, but knowing the RPMs, your 2 engines rev, is wild.
I would venture to guess, the Velociraptor, has to be the most powerful 265 Chrysler flathead 6 in the world, with the 49s engine a close 2nd.
SBC run and hide before being devoured.......LOL
Some of the milder builds, a little more lift and duration with the cam, shave head, split exhaust/dual intake, sure are nice sounding and certainly more impressive than stock, but are a far cry from the type of build you have employed with these 2 engines. I look forward to seeing them in person...

 

 

Well..  your 5.7 litre hemi depending on its year, has a rev limiter built into the system.  When they 1st came out it was set at 5570,  and I think its  now something like 5800 depending on the application.  You can chip that hemi, void the warranty and catch up with the RPM of the worlds fastest dinosaur.  RPM is a funny thing and it depends what the application is. Top Fuel cars are a classic example where they have actually dialed back the rpm, as they shortened the racing from 1/4 mile and they start to talk about how many times the engine turns over the course of the race. 

 

In terms of the most powerful on the planet, I cant say that because I just don't know. I also know we could actually pull more power out of a flathead and God willing, down the road that may come to be.   We have a special blower intake in prototype form, and we have only started to play with the food (fuel) that feeds the Raptor!   lol

 

In terms of my 1949, I also cant make that claim, although I have definitely not seen a more powerful one out on the street, nor has any of the AoK boys,  although to be honest that was never our goal. It was more to take a flathead, make it streetable, and able to operator on "pump gas".  If I was willing to shift to Octane booster and nitros which I actually have the ability to introduce into the engine, but I was looking for something with a little longer fuse ! 

 

Small block chevy's....    lol..    Lets just say we love being the under dog and love the element of surprise.

 

Your correct on doing more milder builds, although we have made available the cam in my car in both the USA small block and the Canadian big block and while a little lumpy at idle you don't have to go completely wild to use them.  Going from what your mentioning, to get that last bit of performance gets expensive.

 

Just take pistons for example.  Take what a set of overbore pistons cost and they are actually pretty reasonable.  Unfortunately its getting limited to cast pistons instead of forged but still very serviceable.   We wanted big over bore forged pistons and modern rings. That road lead us to Venolia .  Next thing you know we ordered up several sets of big bore (125 thou over the stock 3 7/16" bore). We made them smaller, lighter, with specialty coating, 3 rings and plasma moly rings.    They  were, lol pricy!

 

Now do they outperform 4 ring cast pistons, oh for sure.  Is it worth the cost... lol..   I am sure the AoK boys wives don't think so.  But for the Boys..  why do it... easy, because we can!

 

Had we found forged 125 thou pistons which a decade ago I could easily order, we likely wouldn't have went crazy and to be honest its not a path I would recommend for very many clients and definitely would suggest disclosing the cost to your significant other.  But if you want them..   Here is where to buy them

and were happy to hand over our specs and order information.

 

 http://www.venolia.com/

 

Finally, were looking forward to seeing you as well, and Ill finish off with a new version of something a number of the AoK boys family have attached to vehicles !

 

I need a decal like that for the Fargo.....LOL

Well,  the truth is we likely should have had a pile of those bumper stickers made I guess and lol made slightly smaller because they don't fit in a standard mailing envelope.  We do sell them, their $5 each & shipping.  Or

drop by Spring Carlisle or AoK HQ in Fertigs, PA  or my place in Campbellville Ontario.

 

Tim

I need a decal like that for the Fargo.....LOL

Ditto - Although I am not sure one is enough!  Will  PM you Tim

Hey all, would be nice to have some discussion on this blog regarding recent or fairly recent Chrysler A833 conversions.

Recent can is a relative term so in the last 5 -10 years could be included.

I am, also wondering who may be contemplating a trans conversion, which way you may be leaning etc.

Also any who have converted to another 5 spd trans, who may not be thrilled with the results, or who are happy and think it was the right move and why? Or perhaps it may not be too late to change out a trans that is not what they expected.

So with Tim's permission, perhaps we can have some sharing on their trans conversions, especially the Mopar A833......

Hey all, would be nice to have some discussion on this blog regarding recent or fairly recent Chrysler A833 conversions.

Recent can is a relative term so in the last 5 -10 years could be included.

I am, also wondering who may be contemplating a trans conversion, which way you may be leaning etc.

Also any who have converted to another 5 spd trans, who may not be thrilled with the results, or who are happy and think it was the right move and why? Or perhaps it may not be too late to change out a trans that is not what they expected.

So with Tim's permission, perhaps we can have some sharing on their trans conversions, especially the Mopar A833......

No problem -  Drive on Drive on..

Here is a question, I do know Captain Fred, is awaiting his 265 hi-perf engine, he had estimated it to arrive at around this time in march.

I hope Fred will participate in this "blog' during the install process, and once it is up and running.

I do look forward to this engine first time run, and hope Fred will shoot some videos along the way.

This will be another AoK racing well designed and built engine with much more HP than the average flatty build....

Hi all, thanks Tim and Fred for doing this!

It's true, i haven't been able to do computer things other than work recently,

but i'll start a thread over on the main board with lots of pictures as soon as it gets calmer here.

the engine is scheduled to arrive here on march 20th and i have lots of work to do before it arrives.

it isn't really hi-performance i guess, but it should drop some jaws once in a while, i hope.

can't wait to get my hands on it :-)

best from berlin,

Fred

Hi all, thanks Tim and Fred for doing this!

It's true, i haven't been able to do computer things other than work recently,

but i'll start a thread over on the main board with lots of pictures as soon as it gets calmer here.

the engine is scheduled to arrive here on march 20th and i have lots of work to do before it arrives.

it isn't really hi-performance i guess, but it should drop some jaws once in a while, i hope.

can't wait to get my hands on it :-)

best from berlin,

Fred

Love it Fred ...    Lets tell those Ford guys AoK has guaranteed it has at least 1 HP more than a model T and the Chevy guys, at least 2 more HP than whatever babbet bearing, cast crank more they were making at the time your flathead rolled off the line.. lol     

 

And if you want, happy to also have a thread for your build.. lol  and promise not to leak too many pictures..

 

Tim

ta dah... for now the Unauthorized Fast Fred thread !       Love the sound of that..

 

http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-106-captain-fred-challenges-the-model-t-guys-httpp15-d24comuser1218-cptfred/

 

Tim

 

Hi Fred - You are right at the cross over there, where in 1951 the biggest engine in a Canadian truck was a 250ci motor. In 1952 the 265 motor arrived. I will attach the dealer poster from 1952.   On the HP front, between 117 - 120 hp if its a 250, and 123 hp and a bit more torque if its a 265. Cam profile will be different than a combine engine, which pulls the torque curve down to a lower RPM, but its the same HP.  You also have an updraft carb on the combine and a different intake and exhaust on the combine engine as well as potentially a different oil pan. The oil pan depended on which combine or swather manufacturer.  So used truck some didn't.

 

With the truck you will have the right oil pan, right intake and exhaust so with that you have less modifications to make.  But, yes there is always a but, the truck cam profile is different than a car profile

so depending on what your putting it in, and what your trying to get in terms of rpm and torque you may

still feel the need to change the cam when the engine is out of the donor truck.

 

But as you will see in the poster there is not a great deal of hp difference between a 250 in 1952 and 1951 although a little more torque.

 

You can also determine the year of the engine by checking the drivers side of the block, down by the oil

pan is the casting date.  Now having said that  if it is after 11 15 51 (nov 11th 1951) it could be a 265 motor and of course they made 250s in 1952. Tons of them.  So easiest way to check that is pull the plug on the head toward the back of the engine, put in a rod, turn the engine over and measure the stroke (top dead center to bottom dead center). If it is 4 1/2"  its a 250 and if its 4 3/4" its a 265.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

I love that poster and bumper sticker is beyond cool.  If copies are for sale I have to have 1.

 

 

 

Well..  your 5.7 litre hemi depending on its year, has a rev limiter built into the system.  When they 1st came out it was set at 5570,  and I think its  now something like 5800 depending on the application.  You can chip that hemi, void the warranty and catch up with the RPM of the worlds fastest dinosaur.  RPM is a funny thing and it depends what the application is. Top Fuel cars are a classic example where they have actually dialed back the rpm, as they shortened the racing from 1/4 mile and they start to talk about how many times the engine turns over the course of the race. 

 

In terms of the most powerful on the planet, I cant say that because I just don't know. I also know we could actually pull more power out of a flathead and God willing, down the road that may come to be.   We have a special blower intake in prototype form, and we have only started to play with the food (fuel) that feeds the Raptor!   lol

 

In terms of my 1949, I also cant make that claim, although I have definitely not seen a more powerful one out on the street, nor has any of the AoK boys,  although to be honest that was never our goal. It was more to take a flathead, make it streetable, and able to operator on "pump gas".  If I was willing to shift to Octane booster and nitros which I actually have the ability to introduce into the engine, but I was looking for something with a little longer fuse ! 

 

Small block chevy's....    lol..    Lets just say we love being the under dog and love the element of surprise.

 

Your correct on doing more milder builds, although we have made available the cam in my car in both the USA small block and the Canadian big block and while a little lumpy at idle you don't have to go completely wild to use them.  Going from what your mentioning, to get that last bit of performance gets expensive.

 

Just take pistons for example.  Take what a set of overbore pistons cost and they are actually pretty reasonable.  Unfortunately its getting limited to cast pistons instead of forged but still very serviceable.   We wanted big over bore forged pistons and modern rings. That road lead us to Venolia .  Next thing you know we ordered up several sets of big bore (125 thou over the stock 3 7/16" bore). We made them smaller, lighter, with specialty coating, 3 rings and plasma moly rings.    They  were, lol pricy!

 

Now do they outperform 4 ring cast pistons, oh for sure.  Is it worth the cost... lol..   I am sure the AoK boys wives don't think so.  But for the Boys..  why do it... easy, because we can!

 

Had we found forged 125 thou pistons which a decade ago I could easily order, we likely wouldn't have went crazy and to be honest its not a path I would recommend for very many clients and definitely would suggest disclosing the cost to your significant other.  But if you want them..   Here is where to buy them

and were happy to hand over our specs and order information.

 

 http://www.venolia.com/

 

Finally, were looking forward to seeing you as well, and Ill finish off with a new version of something a number of the AoK boys family have attached to vehicles !

 

 

Do you sell those bumper stickers ? I need 1. Actually I want a few, but really need !.

hey all, here is an "observation", ever wonder how long it takes the engine oil to warm up in coooler weather.

Okay just drove about 20 miles mostly highway at highway speeds.

Temp gauge running 170, upon my return checked oil dipstick, just warm to the touch, certainly not overly hot, oil fill tube crankcase breather still cold.

Yes these old hulks need a good period of time to really heat up the entire engine and get the oil hot.

The coolant temp is warmed up much before, the oil ever does in my engine, unless it's warm outside...