splat1955 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Okay......let's see if I can explain the problem I'm having. I've read my manual on this subject a few times, but to be honest, it's confusing me...and it don't take much. On my drivers front door, the lock is loose...jiggles around. I can lock it and unlock it, but like I say, it's loose. So, after reading the manual, I understood it to read there is a screw, access to it in the door jamb, for setting the lock...to keep it in place. So, behind the weatherstip I found the the hole and the screw....and the screw is tight....but the lock is loose. I went to the passengers side to see what it looked like, found the hole but can't see a set screw in it...but that lock is tight. I'm trying to save myself from taking the door panel off, but if I have to, well then I have to. But was hoping someone could enlighten me. Oh, one more question. Is removing the door panels pretty much like any other......remove the door handles, arm rest, window crank...and then pull the door panels....or do I have to remove any trim? Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 There IS a set screw with an allen head in that hole to hold the lock. That screw is usually rusted in place pretty tight. Maybe something is loose inside the housing of the lock that lets it move. Not sure how anyone has gotten that set screw out except for drilling. I tried drilling mine.....the screw is pretty tough....and the drill ran off to the side, drilling into the tunnel around the screw. It's been so long since I removed my locks, I don't recall what I did -- unless I used a punch and tapped them out. Have chrome pop-in covers in the lock holes now....no locks. Have a couple locks to install, but have not done it as yet. What has anybody else done??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 The PO off my car broke one of the locks removing it. For the other one a combo of penetrating oil and then some heat. Don't use too much because we melted a lock in the junkyard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1just4don Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Allen screws are pretty hard,,,my guess is somewhere between grade 5 and 8 bolts. they are extremely hard to drill. My best luck with getting them out is a punch that fits inside the hole of the allen. GOOD penetrating oil(that leaves WD-40 out) (like PB Blaster or Kroil,,,OR similiar). Depending on the size of allen and degree of rust a judicious tap or ten. What that does is bust the rust between the threads of the allen and the hole. DONT drive it clear thru,,,just enough to loosen the hold. IF your inside the hole you dont damage the threads, with the punch. IF the first time doesnt work try try again,,,it WILL work eventually,,,then you know the amount of tap that was required. IF you have a open ended hole when you get the lock all out,,,run a tap thru and clean up those threads and true them up. Make sure the crud is all cleaned out of the bottom of the hole so you dont strip and round the allen worse and you are usually ready for a long handle allen wrench you can really get a good hold on and push in while torquing loose. IF one allen sticks way out and other doesnt,maybe somebody put two in one hole after another to correct a getting loose condition,,,OR somebody stuck a longer one in there just to confuse ya!! Whatever you do, put a new one in their with a new ridge,or like new on the leading edge,thats how they work. Long as they are not stripped heads they are good to go. Thats what I keep all those junk locking colllars around for!! One of those socket end allens, you can get max torque on and push darn hard to get good results. IF it doesnt wanna move fisrt time, spray, go find something good to eatr or drink,,,then try again. Usually the shock of the tap combined with the penetrating of the spray does wonders,,eventually it HAS to come,give it time,,,and MORE spray!! Both ends of the screw doesnt hurt,if you can get there. Heat MAY work,or screw more things up than you started with,,,LAST resort after 2 weeks of tapping,,,at least!! never had one fail YET!! Screw it back in,back and forth if it doesnt want out too good!!MORE spray!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted September 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Hey Guys........thanks for all the info....But I think I should explain a little better. I haven't had any problem with the allen head screw yet, only because I haven't messed with it. Let's start with the drivers door, cause the passenger side lock is fine...at least for now cause it's good and tight in the door. But the drivers side is loose. Now, the screw that I thought was the set screw(the one that holds it tight in the door somehow) is the flat head screw. On the drivers side there is a flat head type screw....and I can already tighten it or loosen it. But neither action makes the lock tight in the door. Do I need to pull that screw out ? On my passenger side door, there is no flat head screw....but I can see a very small allen head screw...I think. So, my question, what is the deal with the flat head screw on my drivers door.....do you guys have that screw or has someone added this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 12, 2007 Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Sounds like someone has been playing. If that screw isn't long enough to push into the lock it won't hold it tight. Now my pickup has a set screw like the cars but its a slotted screw instead of allen. Now that is a PITA. Like Bobs someone stripped it out and tried to drill it(not me). They got off center so I'm not sure how I'll ever fix that and have a lock. And on my pickup its the only 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted September 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2007 Oh..Okay, to confirm, are you guys saying that there shouldn't be a standard flat head screw in the drivers door....it should be a small allen head screw? And because it is what it is, it may not be reaching far enough in to set the lock tight? If that's the case, then maybe I will pull the flat head screw all the way out, take a look and maybe be able to find an allen head screw to fit. I have found since I got the car, that many things are loose....I think because the car was in the process of being restored before I got it and whoever did the resto work just never got around to tightening screws and stuff. Everything I've touched needed something. Lots of screws missing in all the window trim, although it's been painted....stuff like that. So, anyway, can someone confirm that there should not be a " flat head " screw as a set screw for the lock? Thanks again guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 This page in the Parts Manual shows the door handle works and the lock, but not the set screw part. My car only had the allen screws....no flat heads. Another question....did they use a screw with the correct type thread to match the original??? Probably a fairly fine thread there I would think. If you get the proper fit, etc, you could use any type of length of screw that works since it does not show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Hey Bob....thanks for the pic. My manual doesn't even show a breakdown of the door mechanisms like yours does. And unfortunately, my manual is also very vague as to the description of the set screw. What my manual says is there is a " set screw cover " and a " set screw". I had pictured in my head a little cover that went over the " set screw " hole...but when I looked at the door yesterday, there is nothing as far as a cover....nor did I see where a cover would go. No room....as the set screw hole is behind the door weather stripping. So, I am thinking that the flat head screw that is in my drivers door " set screw hole" may be the " cover that they are talking about in the manual...and that under that screw would be the allen head screw that sets the lock cylinder to keep it from moving. My passenger side door did not have the flat head screw, but I could see the allen head...and that lock cylinder is good and tight in the door. So, today I will pull out that flat head screw on the drivers door, and hopefully I will find that the allen head " set screw " set screw is missing...and I'll be able to find one to replace it. Anyway, can anyone else chime in on this and confirm that the flat head screw is just a cover for the allen head set screw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 The one cover that was still on my p15 was just a little tin thing that snapped into the access hole in the door. There wasn't much to it and I could easily see how they could disappear. Is the flathead screw out towards the edge of the door where the weatherstrip goes or down inside it. I'm thinking someone was too lazy to go buy a proper set screw so they just stuck a flathead one in its place. If that is the case hopefully both were the same thread. These are pretty little like #6 or #8 screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 The one cover that was still on my p15 was just a little tin thing that snapped into the access hole in the door. There wasn't much to it and I could easily see how they could disappear. Is the flathead screw out towards the edge of the door where the weatherstrip goes or down inside it. I'm thinking someone was too lazy to go buy a proper set screw so they just stuck a flathead one in its place. If that is the case hopefully both were the same thread. These are pretty little like #6 or #8 screws. Well, it looks like I'm destined to be confused a little bit longer...The screw is now at the bottom of the door so I probably won't get to pull the garnish molding and door panel till the weekend...although I might get to it tomorrow, but I will tell you what I did find out. In answer to your question, the screw was actually not flush with the door jamb, but inside a little ways. It did break loose easily enough and while I was removing it, I could see that the threads on the screw looked good...so I'm hoping the treads inside whatever it was in are good. Again though, the screw and what ever it went inside is at the bottom of the door so naturally I was able to pull the cylinder out. I've added a pic below....sorry about the quality, but in the pic, you can see the shiny round spot where I believe the screw was hitting the cylinder when screwed all the way in. But you can also see like a vertical groove toward the business end of the cylinder, kind of like a retaining clip would have been in. Now, when the screw fell I think what ever it was in fell to the bottom of the door with it. But I believe you are right, that someone just stuck in something that fit. It may even be that the shiney spot on the cylinder is not from the flat head screw, but the original allen head screw cause I got the feeling when I was playing with the screw that it was not bottomed out against the cylinder and that maybe the shoulder of the screw bottomed out before even touching the cylinder. If that's the case, then I need to get the correct allen head...does that sound reasonable? Not knowing what the screw was threaded into because all that is at the bottom of the door, I am just guessing. I wish we had something like that picture above that was more complete and showed all the parts pertaining to that screw and how it locks down the cylinder. Anybody? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 You sound like you are getting it. Shine a light in that little access hole in the side of the door and see if there is still a screw hole there. The screw just pushes against the side of the cylinder to hold it. No clips etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted September 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 You sound like you are getting it. Shine a light in that little access hole in the side of the door and see if there is still a screw hole there. The screw just pushes against the side of the cylinder to hold it. No clips etc. Okay, well, with the cylinder out, I am able to stick my finger through the door and up against the little access hole where the screw was...but there is nothing there.....So, yeah, I see what your saying, if there were like a threaded tube or something inside that access hole, then the screw would thread into that tube or clip and then against the lock cylinder....but there is nothing there...which makes me really wonder what's at the bottom of the door. I don't think I can resist....maybe I ought to pull the molding and panel today. I'm gonna go do that and see what I find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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