Flywheel Self Tighten Bolts

[Lloyd]

I am installing a 4 bolt flywheel off a 218 onto an 8 bolt crank off a 230. Had both machined and balanced plus had 4 more holes punched into the flywheel so now its an 8 hole flywheel. Did not notice till now but the crankshaft does not have a ring inside the flange to hold the flat of the flywheel bolts. Its smooth. I checked the original 218 crank to be sure and it has a raised edge that catches the flat of the flywheel bolts.

Even so I got all the bolts tightened down to 70 lbs, but 2 of them keep spinning. I have tried wedging various tools in between the flat and the crank but cant get ahold of them. 

Thought about putting a tack weld on them but never tried anything like that.

If anyone has any suggestions, -- how did the bolts on this type of crank keep from spinning?

[Don Coatney]

First off you need a grade 8 bolt with a long enough shoulder such as pictured below. You need this long shoulder so the sheer point rides on the shoulder not the threads. The nuts and lock washers go on the engine side when using a 4 bolt flywheel on an 8 bolt crankshaft. It takes two wrenches to torque the bolts. I assume you have already learned that the flywheel will only go on one way as the holes are not symmetrical. And I also assume you have measured your starter to insure it will mate correctly with the 4 bolt flywheel as the crankshaft flange is different on an 8 bolt compared to a 4 bolt.

 

 

[Lloyd]

Hey Don, thanks for coming up and the pics. I was trying to use the stock bolts. But that makes more sense and sounds easier. I did find out about the symmetrical holes. I marked the flywheel and crank where they line up to make it easier. For the starter - originally the car had a 201 in it. I compared the measurements from the original flywheel to the 218 and they matched, laid the flywheels on top each other and eyeballed it, plus counted the teeth. They look the same.

I used the 218 because the ring gear was in a lot better shape than the original.

Ill have to get some bolts and put it back on the stand to get the oil pan off.

They look like 2 inch with a 3/4 inch shoulder.

 

Washers and nuts go on the engine side, I guess the bolt head has no washer at all then.

 

Thanks for your help.

[Don Coatney]

The flywheels will match, but the crankshaft flange will not match. Best measure before the engine is bolted into the car.

 

[Lloyd]

Oh boy, thats where your starter bolts to the bell housing? Means your crankshaft flange pushed the flywheel away from the engine looks like almost a 1/4inch. Is that right?

Thanks for the heads up, I will measure that now.

[fstfish66]

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[Don Coatney]

Oh boy, thats where your starter bolts to the bell housing? Means your crankshaft flange pushed the flywheel away from the engine looks like almost a 1/4inch. Is that right?

Thanks for the heads up, I will measure that now.

If I recall (I did this about 10 years ago) it is more like 3/16". But don't trust my memory and measurements. Do your own measuring so you know exactly what you need. I used a Desoto engine, Plymouth Bell housing, and Plymouth flywheel. Your components may differ and your measurements may not be the same.

 

Also I had to buy 2" bolts in order to get the long shoulder. Then I shortened the bolts to fit. I also did not drill the additional 4 holes in my flywheel and have not had any problems but you are wise to do so. If you have a problem finding the bolts let me know as I may be able to help.

 

Will you be using a fluid drive coupling or a standard clutch? What transmission? What are your plans for a pilot bushing?

[Lloyd]

Hey Don, Good Morning.

Thanks for the bolt information. I thought it might be hard to find a 2 inch bolt with a 3/4 inch shoulder. I was just getting ready to leave and try to find the bolts. I will measure the shoulder need first.

 

I have an R7 OD trans, not sure if it works but on the bench everything turns in all gears. Originally I was going to use this trans but I have decided to hold off on it because of the extra fitting involved. Driveshaft, solenoids, and linkage. Plus I still have a complete brake job to do - I have new brake lines, hoses and drums - still have to get a master and wheel cylinders plus hardware and also found out I need a hub puller as well. So all that's coming up. And - got to get the buckets for the lights put in then wire them and I would guess there will be some more wiring that needs to be done. I am considering getting another harness from RI. Kinda expensive but someone did a hatchet job on the present wiring plus a lot of the braided covering is rotted and missing. So, with all that still to do I decided to just put the original 3 speed back in and save on the R7 fitting for the time being. After I get it running and driving Ill take another look at the R7.

As far as pilot bushing I have a new one from Vintage Wagons for a 230 crank, I tried it on the input shaft of the original trans and it fits plus looks like it will fit the crank as well.

[Don Coatney]

I also will start my re-wire job next week. I am not looking for originality and it appears Rebel has a pre made harness that may work well for me at a lot less cost that Rhode Island.

[Lloyd]

Got it.

I had to take a little metal off the heads of the 3 bolts holding the rear seal plate behind the oil pan. The nuts I put on the back of the flywheel were just scraping them when I turned the engine. Seemed like the easiest way to go. Plus if anyone does this I would strongly suggest to do it as Don has pictured above. With the oil pan off so you can gain easier access to the nuts. I had to use some needle nose vise grips to hold the nut against the bolt between the engine and the flywheel. Wasn't real bad but would have been much easier if I hadn't already bolted on the oil pan.

Anyway, looks like it will work. Have to put it down for a few weeks while I go back to my real job.

Thanks again for the help Don.

 

 

[Lloyd]

Had to put this project on the shelf for a few weeks but I'm back and getting ready to measure the starter.

But first I thought I would post a pic of the mounted flywheel and the bolts that the flywheel was ticking against. I had to grind a little metal off these bolts to get the nuts on the flywheel to clear.

 

Don is right in the above post. The starter gear does not meet the flywheel all the way so I will have to take some metal off the bell housing. Don also mentioned it may be 3/16 inch he took off (as best he remembered) and that is the same amount I measured as well.

Here's how I measured it:

 

I took a measurement from the starter mount surface on the bell housing to the back side of the flywheel ring gear.

This measurement shows 2-3/16 inches.

 

(The measurement from the front side of the ring gear to the starter mount surface is 1-11/16 inches)

 

Then I measured the starter gear in both the extended and retracted positions from the starter mounting surface to the tip of the gear.

 

Retracted is 1-3/16 inches

Extended is 2 inches

 

So the starter gear needs to go another 3/16 inch to reach the backside of the flywheel.

 

Unless anyone sees something I missed I plan on taking my bell housing down and getting 3/16 inch knocked of it.

 

 

 

[Don Coatney]

With 3/16" I think you will be good to go.

 

[1941Rick]

Don might be able to answer this.....can you take 3/16 off the starter housing?

[Don Coatney]

Don might be able to answer this.....can you take 3/16 off the starter housing?

Probably could. But there is a lot more "meat" on the bell housing.

[Lloyd]

Don might be able to answer this.....can you take 3/16 off the starter housing?

Hey Rick, that had crossed my mind. I just figured Don went the route of removing metal from his bell housing and it has worked for him.

If ever I had to replace the starter for some reason I would have to swap heads or look at removing 3/16 from the new starter.

But it is a thought, I'll take another look at it.

Thanks.

[Dave72dt]

3/16 off the mounting flange of the starter would be quite a bit and would leave it extremely weak.  That would taking about half of the flange off, if not more.

[Lloyd]

Yep it would, plus the head of starter projects thru the mounting flange and it also has a raised ring that sticks into the bell housing. Its all one piece.