1940 Plymouth Door Latch/Handle

[Bmartin]

My door latches do not function well.  For both the outside and inside, I have to really crank on the handles to get the latch to release, only the last millimeter releases it and no fully.  I still have to pull on it.  They are also hard to get to latch closed and stay closed. 

 

I took out the mechanism and I don't fully understand how it works.  Would replacing the star wheels fix my issues or are there other springs that need to be replaced?  I have no problem buying the new complete mechanism from Bernbaum, but I'm worried the repro's will not work like the factory, anyone with experience buying new?  Here are some pics for reference.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, do most people just use some mystery oil on the moving parts.  Any pointers on where to put the oil are appreciated. 

[Daliant.]

I'd start by lubing the star wheel and anything else that moves in the latch mechanism, the wheel looks a little worn but it should still work as long as everything moves freely. Make sure the wheel still moves smoothly and catches the three fingers every turn, lube the crap out of it. How does the catch plate on the pillar look? Is the little spring loaded tab still in place? The catch plate needs to be in good shape for the star wheel to hold the door closed right.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Daliant.

[Bmartin]

Ahh yes, that was another question I had.  The tab is still there but there is no spring action any more, it just flops there.  There is a spring in there, but its not connected to anything any more.  Looks like I need those as well. 

 

You are correct, the star wheel still has good spring action and not a lot of play.  Still wondering why I need to move the handle so far for it to release. 

Edited May 2, 2014 by Bmartin

[Bmartin]

Just a quick update.  The latches, star wheels, and strikes are not avaliable from bern baum at this time.  Ebay is a source for the springs, I saw some strikers, and I believe you can find the star wheels there as well.  I ordered the springs and I'll be rebuilding my existing latches.  I am going to take apart the strikers and see if the spring is replaceable. 

[Ulu]

Just make sure, before condemning the locks/latches, that the doors are adjusted.

 

Or for that matter, that they are even still adjustable.

 

What I mean is that it's common for the body to sag at the body mount near the door hinges. This makes the back edge of the door too low, plus make it crooked in the door frame. At that point you might not be able to get a good adjustment. 

 

BTW, my star wheels are very worn, but sill work.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Ulu

[Bmartin]

Thanks, I'll take a look at the adjustment.  One of my main problems is with the striker plates, the springs are off, or broken.

 

The striker flapper rotates on a pin and the pin is staked (smashed) to keep it from coming out.  I'm going to have to take it apart to see if it can be fixed.  Has anyone found a good way to remove this pin and still make it usable after wards?

[Ulu]

Once a pin is staked & then removed it's typically too short to re-use.

 

Making a new pin isn't hard.

[Daliant.]

.  Has anyone found a good way to remove this pin and still make it usable after wards?

 

Grind the staked part off to get the pin out,  then when the striker is repaired weld the end of the pin to the housing.

[Bmartin]

Thanks guys.

[Bmartin]

I've got some new latch springs to install and I can't seem to find any information on removing the back panel that holds the springs in.  I bent the three tabs straight that hold it in, but it won't budge.  It looks like the pins for the star wheel and the dove tail block need to be ground off.  Is this correct or can the rear plate be removed without damaging anything?

 

Thanks.

[Daliant.]

You have to grind the pins for the star wheel and the dovetail to get it apart and then weld the ends of the pins back to the end plate to put it back together, it wasn't designed to be serviceable.

 

Make sure the star wheel spins nice and smooth on it's pin, when I fixed the latch on my '46 the star wheel was so beat up from the door being slammed on it that it would barely turn, I had to re drill the hole to make it round again.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Daliant.

[Ulu]

Is anybody reproducing the star wheel or wheel assemblies?

 

Mine work put are pretty worn out. I was considering just carving some new ones from scratch, from aluminum stock. I might actually try to cast some.

[Niel Hoback]

Aluminum is a pretty soft metal for that application. 

[Ulu]

And here I thought they were cast aluminum. I'll have to have another look.

 

Thanks Neil.

[Bmartin]

Thanks for the input guys.  I think I will try and identify some replacement latches first so I have a backup in case I screw it up too badly.  My thought process is that I was going to try and find a pin i can use and match it with a snap ring.  It would be great to keep it serviceable.  We'll see what I can dig up or if my buddies lathe can do something that small. 

[_shel_ny]

Is anybody reproducing the star wheel or wheel assemblies?

 

Mine work put are pretty worn out. I was considering just carving some new ones from scratch, from aluminum stock. I might actually try to cast some.

 

AB site list them. May or may not have. Have seen them on ebay from time to time. Old stock, not reproduction.

 

May be more cost effective to replace the latch. Easier as well. Thing is to find one that is better than what you have.

[Bmartin]

I took apart the latch tonight.  I used a dremel to grind down the tow post on the inside of the latch cover.  I ground them just flat with the cover so as to leave a little meat to weld to later. 

 

 

Here is a pic with the cover off and one of the springs removed. 

 

 

And here is closeup.

 

 

To replace the springs, remove each spring and each 'leg' in succession.  Then reassemble (leg then spring) in the reverse order. 

 

Unfortunately, my original issue still remains after replacing the springs.  The latch does not release the star wheel to free spin (open door) until the last millimeter of handle travel. 

 

Below is a labeled pic of the latch.  I'm going to call the part labeled '1' the leg.  The legs keep the star wheel (5) from moving freely so it will latch to the striker on the door jam and hold the door closed.  To free up the star wheel the legs must be rotated towards the top of this pic so that they do not contact the stars of the wheel.  Both the inside and outside latch have a tab (2 & 4 respectively), that push a tab on the outermost leg (3).  The rotates all three legs out of the way of the star wheel towards the top of the picture. 

 

My issue is that I must turn either handle to its most extreme, for the start wheel to release.  Its almost as if the tabs (2 & 4) have either bent or worn down.  I don't think the leg tab (3) is bent since it would be hard to reassemble if it were more to the right of the pic.  But I could have it all backwards so if you have some input let me know. 

 

Edited May 15, 2014 by Bmartin