BigDaddyO Posted April 24, 2014 Report Posted April 24, 2014 www.carbibles.com/additives.html If it doesn't come thru... Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted April 24, 2014 Report Posted April 24, 2014 Sorry, I disagree. The oil mixture in a 2 stroke engine lubricates the lower end not the upper end. There are no valves in a 2 stroke engine. Only ports that do not move. And a 2 stroke engine requires 2 stroke oil specially formulated to not lose lubricity when mixed with gasolene. If regular engine oil is used in a 2 stroke the engine will fail in short order due to lack of lower end lubrication. I think you are forgetting about the cylinder itself and what happens to the piston and the rings when there is not adequate lubrication. On a well built 2 stroke..... bottom end failure is quite rare.......piston and ring damage is much more common. Especially on air cooled port induction engines like the motocrossers of the 60's and 70's. The best 2 stroke oils are of an ash less grade oil which help reduce wear on the cylinder wall. Tear down enough of these and you can literally tell what type of oil was used in the mix.......and how well it was doing it's job. Personally I prefer castor base oil in air cooled 2 strokes which take pre-mix. I never had a single seizure using Blendzall at 32 to 1 ratio and that included several engines that were spec'd by the factory for a 20 to 1 ratio of conventional oil. Most modern oils and gasolines contain a blend of additives. These additives do make a difference in how these products perform. The formulations vary from producer to producer and I truly believe some do the job much better than others. Do you need to add something extra to your oil or gas? I think it all depends on what you have been using and what shape the engine is in. Jeff Quote
Lumpy Posted April 24, 2014 Report Posted April 24, 2014 Using antique flathead motorcycle engines again as maybe not so great as an example, (?) it has been found that the addition of MMO in the gas does lower cylinder temps. But those are air cooled engines, which run really hot, so it might not be true with water cooled flathead engines. With flathead motorcycles, there has been much research, testing, testing, experimenting, racing, and more testing done, from the 1920's up to now...there is really a lot of solid knowledge in the field. With such engines, it is very accepted that there is a benefit to using MMO in the fuel. Again, with a low stressed water cooled engine, maybe not. I've always run some MMO in Lumpy and my motorcycles, both antique and modern, and I can say that my carburetors remain trouble free for ridiculously long periods of time. At the least, it's never harmed anything, but I understand the opinion that it may just be snake oil, or perhaps a psychological thing. Even so, it still works for me. I was always under the understanding that if the engine does not actually ping on a lower grade of gas, then a higher octane serves no purpose. ?? (other than to make your wallet lighter) ken. Quote
JDaniel64 Posted April 24, 2014 Report Posted April 24, 2014 (edited) I do know that the lubricity of gasoline is something that is monitored and controlled during the fuel's production, a lot of the hydrocarbons responsible for gasoline's lubricating properties come from the last drags of the fractionation process. The end boiling point at which we distill the gas at my refinery is to about 450 degrees F, 450-780 F is considered diesel fuel which is, as most of you know, a lot heavier and more like oil. Heavy-er stuff (+780 F, call it vacuum/coker bottoms) is the goo mostly used as road tar, but here we break it down, re-refine it, and re-process it into more gas and diesel. Gasoline, as it is, already has all the lubricating properties that any engine would need, especially for our old engines. Fuel injection engines actually increased the need for more lubricating fuels due to the more rapid action of the injectors which were prone to higher wear. MMO probably wouldn't hurt an engine, but in most cases I can't see it helping. Edited April 24, 2014 by JDaniel64 Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 24, 2014 Report Posted April 24, 2014 I think you are forgetting about the cylinder itself and what happens to the piston and the rings when there is not adequate lubrication. On a well built 2 stroke..... bottom end failure is quite rare.......piston and ring damage is much more common. Especially on air cooled port induction engines like the motocrossers of the 60's and 70's. The best 2 stroke oils are of an ash less grade oil which help reduce wear on the cylinder wall. Tear down enough of these and you can literally tell what type of oil was used in the mix.......and how well it was doing it's job. Personally I prefer castor base oil in air cooled 2 strokes which take pre-mix. I never had a single seizure using Blendzall at 32 to 1 ratio and that included several engines that were spec'd by the factory for a 20 to 1 ratio of conventional oil. Most modern oils and gasolines contain a blend of additives. These additives do make a difference in how these products perform. The formulations vary from producer to producer and I truly believe some do the job much better than others. Do you need to add something extra to your oil or gas? I think it all depends on what you have been using and what shape the engine is in. Jeff You are correct Jeff that the piston and rings need lubrication on a 2 stroke ported engine. In my comments on upper end lubrication I was thinking everything on the top side of the piston. The porting on a two stroke is what lubricates the piston, rings, and cylinder. I have had piston melt down on 2 strokes due to friction heat on the cylinder when using incorrect oil. Quote
Jeff Balazs Posted April 24, 2014 Report Posted April 24, 2014 Don I figured you knew that. One of the clearest examples I have ever seen of the differences between the different lubricating qualities of oils was something that happened to me back in the late 80's. I bought a really clean used Volvo 240 for my wife. It was only 2 years old and had about 100,000 miles on it. It had belonged to a neighbor who was a traveling sales person and had really kept up on the maintenance. I knew a fellow that owned a independent Volvo garage and he recommended using Redline synthetic oil in it. I did an oil change as he prescribed and was on the phone with him as soon as I started it back up. The Redline was so effective I had to set the idle down almost 200 rpm! The only thing that had been changed was the oil. It really made that much difference. When we sold the car about 20 years later it was still running like a champ.....and never burned a drop of oil between extended changes. Jeff Quote
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