P20 Special Deluxe Project - Australian Delivered RHD

[jwaterman1177]

Hi,

 

Name is James and I am now the owner of a P20 Special Deluxe that is Australian Delivered and in RHD.

 

The photos below are how the vehicle was picked up last year & some from recently:

 

 

 

 

 

Not much has been done other than research into the spec on the car as I moved house just after getting it but I couldn't wait to after moving to purchase it as the price was a little to good to pass up.  Especially with the condition of the body & chassis.  I was expecting rust through the floors but they are very solid.  It has some rust around the trim holes, the vent just below the front windscreen and on the A Pillar just below the window frame.

 

The previous owners have started to restore it so it is currently in bits and I have multiple boxes of parts to sort through.  It also came with a spare engine that I was told was a 218cid but after deciphering the engine number I believe it is a 1936 Dodge 201cid and this is also backed up by the spare gearbox which is a floor shift 3 Speed.  It is a 23" head though.  The engine in the car is a 25" head so it might be the original engine from when it was manufactured in Canada.  This website has been a huge help on working out all the above information.  I was going to rebuild the spare engine and put it in but after finding out that it might be 201cid, I am now going to rebuild the engine in the car and take it out to a 251cid.

 

The plans are:

• Take the body off the chassis and have the chassis powder coated red.
• 
  
• Repair the body for the rust and for where the previous owner cut sections out at the rear below the trunk in preparation of lengthening the rear to make it in to a custom / lead sled.
• 
  
• At this stage the body will be painted in a non metallic grey with a white roof & white firewall.
• 
  
• The engine will be rebuilt as a 251cid.  I am looking at a dual carby setup and split exhaust as well.  Starting to look for the parts now for the 251cid conversion.
• 
  
• It will be lowered but not to the point of scrapping on the ground, I live in a rural area and do want to be able to drive it out of my drive way & to use it at Chopped (a traditional hotrod show in Victoria which run dirt drags).
• 
  
• I will be running widen steel rims, painted red & with white walls.  
• 
  
• I will look at upgrading to disc brakes in the front.
• 
  
• I am also looking at a T5 conversion as that box was used in the local Fords & Holdens so are readily available.
• 
  
• The interior is still to be decided but it is not staying in the brown vinyl it is in now.  The front seat is in good conditon but the rear is rotted and falling apart.  I am considering installing a modified rear seat from a vehicle that is close in dimensions & also installing buckets in the front to allow clearance to the T5 shifter as the local ones have the shifter at the back of the box.  The interior colour has not been worked out yet as I keep changing my mind on what will look good versus being practical with a young family.
• 
  

As you can see a lot of thought has gone into planning this but that is what happens when you cant get out to work on it while you are moving house.

 

It is not going to be an accurate restoration but more traditional hotrod.  I have a goal to have it running for the 2015 Chopped Show (running being the word, as I am not sure I will have it ready to be registered).

 

This site has already been a huge help with finding out information on the engine differences and I am sure it will be as I go forward, especially with a lot of the car in bits & in boxes.

 

I will update this as I progress.

 

James

[Andydodge]

James........you look familiar......lol..........weren't you on Ozrodders?.........lol......regards, Andy Douglas, www.scaleautomobilia.com.au

[pflaming]

To install bucket seats you might consider finding a car with the seats you want, then cut out the entire area and swap it into your car. You get all the seat mounts and possibly even the seat belts. That is what I have done. 

[B-Watson]

There looks to be a small tag on the passenger side of the body, just under the hood.  What is on the tag?

 

Was this car imported with body and chassis?  Or imported chassis mated with an Australian body.   The large front window (higher than American), small rear window and slightly different quarter window on the rear doors leads me to believe you have an Australian-built 1950 Plymouth - imported chassis with body by T.J. Richards.

 

As for the engines, what are the engine numbers?   They should be stamped on a machined boss just below the head on the left side of the block by the #1 cylinder.   That will tell you exactly what you have.

 

The US-style 1936 Dodge used a 217.8 -cid engine while the Plymouth-based Dodge used Plymouth's 201.3-cid engine.  Both are 23" blocks.

 

The 251 (250.6-cid) engine used the 25" block with a 3-7/16" (3.4375") bore.    That bore with a 4.25" stroke gave you 236.6-cid, 4.5" stroke gave 250.6-cid and 4.75" gave 264.5-cid.

 

Taking a 25" engine with a 3-3/8" (3.375") bore out to the maximum 0.090" overbore will give you 3.465".  So if you have a 25" block with a 3-3/8" bore, you should have no problems there,

[jwaterman1177]

Andy,

 

I have lurked on Ozrodders but never posted.  This car may have been on there as it has been through a few hands in the current state it is in.  One of the previous owners I have found was going to install a Toyota 6 Cylinder engine in it until he decided to sell it.

 

Bill,

 

Thanks for some helpful pointers.

 

The tag under the hood on the passenger side is stamped with P20S-02149. 

 

In regards to whether it is a imported chassis / Australian body or full import I am not sure.  I haven't had a chance to inspect the number on the drivers door area due to relocating for a few days while the fires were near us.

 

The engine number on the spare engine I have is D3 261612.  The only reference I found to D3 was the Plymouth Based Dodge in 1936 with the 201.3cid engine.  I now have that engine on a stand and will shortly be checking it further to confirm what it is.

 

Regards,

 

James

[Mopar Mick]

James, these were imported into Australia as CKD (completely knocked down) and assembled at Adelaide's Tonsley Park.

Mick.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Mopar Mick

[Lumpy]

That should be pretty neat when you get it on the road. Thanks for saving it from the Toyota engine! (or any engine without Chrysler DNA) Thats' the first right hand drive Plymouth I've ever seen.

 

I have buckets in Lumpy, ('48 D24) and sure like them better than the bench seat that was in it. Just makes the whole car feel better when I drive it...if that makes sense. I feel more "connected" or something. I was scolded by the wife for doing that, but it was worth it.

 

Well good luck, that will be a very cool car, and your plan sounds great.

 

k.

[jwaterman1177]

Mick,

 

Thanks for the info, I do like knowing the history of cars & there manufacturing locations.  

 

Lumpy,

 

I know what you mean about any engine other than one with Chrysler DNA, I had a mate asking me if I was going to put a V8 in it but I am even hesitant to do that, as I do like the flathead 6 and the sound they make when worked a little.  I know they aren't all that powerful but to me it is more about the history.  At least he wasn't trying to convince me to put a Small Block Chev in it, he tried to convince me to buy a Hemi he found.  He does have some different ideas seeing as he is about to build a 32 Ford Tudor with a mid 50's cadillac motor.

 

I think I am set on the buckets, will make it easier to fit the T5 and I wont have to chase parts from the USA to move the shifter forward.

 

Regards,

 

James

[Lumpy]

I'm not against slipping a Chrysler V8 into a....Chrysler product, but I think the flathead just has so much more "wow" appeal, just plain "neat". More "cool factor". I run into people all the time who have never seen a flathead....but I don't think there's too many out there who have not seen a modern OHV V8.

 

Another thing, the flatheads aren't THAT underpowered....it's not like they can't get out of their own way. And they certainly have all the low-end torque you could want. I really don't have to shift the gears in Lumpy very often, don't have to down shift much, she'll just lug around in third gear most of the time. A good running, well tuned flathead with reasonable compression will do just fine. And yes, I keep telling everyone who'll listen not to go too high on the compression, but on the other hand, there's no reason to run the really low compression ratios like 6.0:1 either.

 

Just some thoughts!

 

ken.

[B-Watson]

The Australian Plymouths and the Plymouth-based Dodges and DeSotos used imported chassis complete with steering, suspension, axles, brakes, engines and transmission, but the bodies were built in Australia.    They may have imported floor and firewall stamping as those are large, expensive pieces to tool, but there are many differences between the Australian and North American versions.  Too many to say the cars were shipped CKD from Windsor or Detroit..

 

The 1949-52 Australian Plymouths were different from their North American cousins -

- windshield was higher on the Australian models

- the 1951-52 Australian models did not adopt a narrower A pillar as in North America

- the 1951-52 rear window was larger than 1950, but the Australian version was shallower and a little narrower than in North America

- the rear quarter window on the sedans was different than in North America

- the upper door frames on the Australian sedans were different (flat) than in North America

- the rear door opening angled down from the top of the door and then curved to meet the door opening around the rear fender in Australia while the North American model angled down to the belt line, then straight down to the opening around the rear fender

- Australian rear fenders not have the North American fender's slight rise from rear to front

  There is something different about the trunk and rear fenders, but I cannot quite put my finger on what.  

 

Chrysler Australia built the 1953 Plymouths through to 1956, and then in 1957 modified it to come up with the Chrysler Royal.  In North America the 1953 body was used only in 1953 and 1954.   

 

The engine with number D3 261612 is an American-built Dodge D3 export model.  The engine is an American Plymouth unit, but with D3 prefix instead of the Plymouth P2.  The Canadian-built D3 and D4 used American Plymouth engines but with Plymouth engine numbers.  It is therefore a 23" block engine. 

 

Canadian-built engines did not appear until mid-1938, and with that each model used engines with their own engine number prefixes. 

[Roger the Dodger]

The Australian Plymouths and the Plymouth-based Dodges and DeSotos used imported chassis complete with steering, suspension, axles, brakes, engines and transmission, but the bodies were built in Australia.    They may have imported floor and firewall stamping as those are large, expensive pieces to tool, but there are many differences between the Australian and North American versions.  Too many to say the cars were shipped CKD from Windsor or Detroit..

 

The 1949-52 Australian Plymouths were different from their North American cousins -

- windshield was higher on the Australian models

- the 1951-52 Australian models did not adopt a narrower A pillar as in North America

- the 1951-52 rear window was larger than 1950, but the Australian version was shallower and a little narrower than in North America

- the rear quarter window on the sedans was different than in North America

- the upper door frames on the Australian sedans were different (flat) than in North America

- the rear door opening angled down from the top of the door and then curved to meet the door opening around the rear fender in Australia while the North American model angled down to the belt line, then straight down to the opening around the rear fender

- Australian rear fenders not have the North American fender's slight rise from rear to front

  There is something different about the trunk and rear fenders, but I cannot quite put my finger on what.  

 

Chrysler Australia built the 1953 Plymouths through to 1956, and then in 1957 modified it to come up with the Chrysler Royal.  In North America the 1953 body was used only in 1953 and 1954.   

 

The engine with number D3 261612 is an American-built Dodge D3 export model.  The engine is an American Plymouth unit, but with D3 prefix instead of the Plymouth P2.  The Canadian-built D3 and D4 used American Plymouth engines but with Plymouth engine numbers.  It is therefore a 23" block engine. 

 

Canadian-built engines did not appear until mid-1938, and with that each model used engines with their own engine number prefixes. 

 

Bill, The Aussie rear end shot, and the Yacht Marina shot are photos of my car. It is a 1952 D40 Dodge Kingsway Custom. All stock except for, Electric fuel pump, 14 circuit hot rod wiring loom, 12v alternator, Slant 6 electronic distributor with Bosch BIM024 controller and a filter in the radiator top hose. Also modern sound in the glove box.

Thanks, Roger.

[Mopar Mick]

James, if you decide to retain the original motor do yourself a favour and google "Edgy finned heads".

They look fantastic on the sidevalve six.

Just a thought.

Good luck with it.

Mick.

[Andydodge]

James, Micks right re the Edgy head.......this was the engine I was building for my 41 Plymouth....ended up selling the car to VIc and the engine to WA.......still got the Dodge tho'.........lol...........hot up bits for the 23" engine seem to be easier to find in the US rather than to suit the 25" engine........stuff is around to suit both but not as much for the 25".......check out forum member Don Coatneys USA  P15 with the 25" engine and what he has done to it......regards, andyd  

[Lumpy]

Yes, Don's engine just blows my mind every time I look at it...I'm beginning to think that he knows a thing or two. !!!!!!!

 

Seems like I google'd those heads but could find no prices. What do they run as far as cost?

 

k.

[Andydodge]

When I bought my 23" Edgy head Earl was charging $750 US plus postage......at the time it ended up costing me about $1100.00 Australian to my door landed..........yep I was keen.........lol............andyd 

[Mopar Mick]

Great pics Andy.

James as you can see by Andys' photos the sidevalve six can be made to look good and run a lot better that factory original.

Edgy head and side plates split exhaust manifold and two 97s and you have instant "wow" factor.

If it was me I would go for it, freight costs are high but so is the reward.

Mick.

[Andydodge]

James if you want call me as I talk better than I type, at the shop 02 66435260 or after 5.30 at home on 02 66425963.....I have a few suggestions re getting parts etc.....Andy Douglas

[Ricky Luke]

Been scratching my head over a split exhaust manifold for a RHD Chrysler - the steering column gets in the way...

 

Rick

[Andydodge]

Ricky?..........does it?...........lol........for my 1941 Plymouth I was uncertain whether the steering box would clear, got measurements from a guy in Sydney with a LHD 1948 and still couldn't decide for sure ....then I noticed how the RHD clutch and brake pedals followed thru and ecided that it wasn't worth the hassle, I was gunna get a pair of repoped Fenton headers..........I got a local blacksmith to weld up the ends of a pair of front and centre dump 23" stock manifolds and as you can see they looked fine, the clearance above the steering box would have been close still but this was what was gunna happen...........then I had to sell the car.........boo hoo............andyd

[B-Watson]

Bill, The Aussie rear end shot, and the Yacht Marina shot are photos of my car. It is a 1952 D40 Dodge Kingsway Custom. All stock except for, Electric fuel pump, 14 circuit hot rod wiring loom, 12v alternator, Slant 6 electronic distributor with Bosch BIM024 controller and a filter in the radiator top hose. Also modern sound in the glove box.

Thanks, Roger.

 

Roger,

 

That is one beautiful car!  I have seen other photos including some of the interior.  Looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor!

 

Noticed the rear of the car has the backup lights with amber lenses.  I suppose they were (are) used as turn signals, but do they double as back up lights?

[Roger the Dodger]

Roger,

 

That is one beautiful car!  I have seen other photos including some of the interior.  Looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor!

 

Noticed the rear of the car has the backup lights with amber lenses.  I suppose they were (are) used as turn signals, but do they double as back up lights?

Thanks Bill. Those Amber lights are Turn signals only, no back up lights. I am looking for some round amber lights as the square ones look out of place. Probably find some thing suitable on an early English car.

Roger.

[Andydodge]

Roger checkout a few late model bikes, also there are some small blinkers around that hotrodders use....try TCR in Melbourne...these ones on my Dodge are from some bike.....andyd ......

[Ricky Luke]

It's going to be a pain to do the tappets...

 

Rick

[Andydodge]

Ricky.........do you know Mick Kelly?..........he's a hot rodder down mexico way, he has a 1940 Chrysler Coupe.........yeh, tappets.........I was gunna bench test that engine of mine b4 installation, but that's a moot point now............andyd    

[Ricky Luke]

He's not that far away, but I haven't had the opportunity to drop over.