Front leaf spring replacement on my '38

[deathbound]

Nice job on the springs! I have a 1938 Dodge BC that needs the new springs in the front also.The drivers side has the ghetto lean.Did you rebuild the antivibration bushing on the drivers side? My spring rebuilder has put me on hold while he figures out what to do there.Did your spring rebuilder supply the  bushings?

 

Thanks. My car doesn't have any anti-vibration device on the front that I can see-may have been removed by a previous owner. I have seen a few pictures/diagrams of a part that looks like what you are describing....located near the rear of the front left spring only??? If you have a pic or 2, that would be great. I replaced a couple of the bushings for the shackles....the others were re-useable. I have seen some type of anti-sway bar device (for lack of the correct term) listed for '38 & up, but not on my car....may have been a mid-year change???? Good luck on yours.

[Robert Horne]

Here is a photo of the front spring, driver side on my 38.

 

 

[deathbound]

Here is a photo of the front spring, driver side on my 38.

 

Thanks Robert, that's exactly what I've seen in my service manual, but mine does not have one. May have been removed by a previous owner.....possibly a mid-year change??? Have you driven your car without it & if so, any noticeable difference?

[Robert Horne]

Both my 38s, Delux Coupe, and Business Coupe,  have this spring end type setup.      

 

I only took my unit off to clean and paint.

 

Both my 37s, 2 door, and 4 door, have these units also.

 

Here is a photo of the sway bar off my 37 four door to install on my 38 Coupe,

 

but I may try the Jeep XJ sway bar, (not as wide, but stronger), with different end links,

 

like the Ranger rear links.

[Robert Horne]

My previous post was incorrect about the sway bars.

 

Pictured was a Ford and not a Jeep sway bar.

 

This photo has 3 sway bars, the red spot is the Jeep,

 

the blue spot is the Ford, and

 

the third, silver is the 37 Plymouth.

 

The 37 seems very week, so hope to use one a little stronger...

Edited October 15, 2013 by Robert Horne

[dodge38]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I live in Canada, I'm working on the 1938 Dodge D8 4d sedan which hasn't been driven in 50 years, just started with some welding and teardown.

 

Few project pics here:

 

Deathbound,

 

Great info in this thread and excellent pictures and a nice car! I have the same exact leaf spring setup than you have, mine are all broken and I don't have any anti-vibration devices either in the front. The problem I have in the front also is that the leafs are different lengths and amount of leafs are different compared to each other so not sure what's the original setup.

 

I know that coupe and sedan should have a bit different setup but could you share the specs of your front leafs, the lenght, nbr of leafs, and especially the final arch you ended up with?

 

The rear Posie's springs you have, I understand they have the reversed eyes which help already to lower the rear, but what's the arch in those and any idea what's the original?

 

Also, have you thought about using some modern style shackles with polyurethane bushings, I'd guess the original threaded steel "bushings" are not too pleasent to drive...?

 

I try to get new front and rear springs from Eaton Detroit Spings which they resell here in Canada.

 

Below the details of my setup (A front to center bolt, B rear to center bolt, C arch):

Front left: 12 leafs with reversed eyes (length 36 3/8", A 18" / B 18 3/8" / C 2" arch), front shackle 3", rear shackle 2 3/4"

Front right: 10 leafs with reversed eyes (length 37", A 17,5" / B 19,5" / C 4" arch), front shackle 3", no rear shackle since attached to the frame bracket

Rear left: 9 leafs (length 53", A 24" / B 29" / C 4,5" arch), rear shackle 4"

Rear right: 9 leafs (length 53", A 24" / B 29" / C 4,5" arch), rear shackle 4"

 

Thanks,

Hannu

[Robert Horne]

Dodge38, great project you have going there, similar to my 37 Plymouth four door.

Great setup on your photos, how did you post those?

Thanks, Bob....

[deathbound]

Hannu, thanks for the positive comments, unfortunately, I didn't take any measurements of the new springs prior to installing them. I do remember the 2 front leafs springs were identical lengths with the same quantity of leafs. I still have the original front & rear sets....let me know if you need measurements from them. Your front axle looks like an I-beam type with different shock mounts (maybe because it's a 4 door....more weight or maybe even changed out from a truck???), mine is a tube type. Also, the way the 2 stabilizer bars (?) mount to the axle seems different.

 

The rears from Posies are the same length eye to eye, not sure about the arch.....I can measure the originals, but it may not be accurate after 75 years of wear & tear. In the rear, I removed 2 leafs from each side & have recently added 1" lowering blocks. I also removed 2 leafs from the fronts. As far as the shackles, it rides pretty good considering what I've done, I'm not aware of modern style shackles with polyurethane bushings available for my car. Are the springs from Eaton stock specs or are they lowered?

 

The work you've done to your car is amazing, looks like you've got metal work/fab experience. You should start a build thread documenting everything. Also, maybe an introduction....though not required. If there's anything else you need, don't hesitate. Derek

 

Here are a couple current pics of my car:

 

 

[dodge38]

Thanks guys!

 

Bob, the pictures were sort of an accident, I just added a http link to my Flickr page "Dodge Set" and that was the end result. Flickr account is free and have room for 1 Tera Byte per user. The Plymouth looks good and really similar to mine, looks like it needs some work as well.

 

Derek, thanks for you help. If you could measure the length of your original front leaf springs and calculate the amount of the leafs that would be great.

 

I tried to find an introduction page earlier but didn't find it yet, will do that when I figure out what's the location in this forum. And could start a build thread as well.

 

And thanks for your compliments, it won't be a show car by no means but I'm quite happy with the work so far with the primitive tools I use now here. I had bit better tools last time I built a car which was 15 years ago back in Finland where I'm from, my father had a sheet metal company and all the tools needed, the car was 1970 Plymouth Duster and it was even more rusty than this one.

 

The front axle is I-beam style in Canadian built cars which mine is, that's what I read somewhere I think.

[dodge38]

Derek,

 

About the Eaton springs, I just discussed with their reseller here in Canada, they are looking into the specs still. Basically they can provide the springs with any specs I need, just need to find out what I need or want. I'm hoping 3" lower than the original. From your pics I calculated 11 leafs in the original front set, and 6 in the new front set.

 

The modern shackles I think should be easy to add since different length of side bars and bushings are available and seems like some Jeep/GM shackle sets would fit directly, only thing I'm not sure about is the passanger side front leaf spring rear eye if there is any room to add bushings inside the frame bracket or if that needs to be modified.

 

Great looking chrome you have, are those bumbers new/re-chromed or are you just lucky with the weather there in California and no rust, and the Firestone white wall tires look really good, are those 600 x 16 Bias Ply and how is it to drive with them?

[deathbound]

Derek,

 

About the Eaton springs, I just discussed with their reseller here in Canada, they are looking into the specs still. Basically they can provide the springs with any specs I need, just need to find out what I need or want. I'm hoping 3" lower than the original. From your pics I calculated 11 leafs in the original front set, and 6 in the new front set.

 

The modern shackles I think should be easy to add since different length of side bars and bushings are available and seems like some Jeep/GM shackle sets would fit directly, only thing I'm not sure about is the passanger side front leaf spring rear eye if there is any room to add bushings inside the frame bracket or if that needs to be modified.

 

Great looking chrome you have, are those bumbers new/re-chromed or are you just lucky with the weather there in California and no rust, and the Firestone white wall tires look really good, are those 600 x 16 Bias Ply and how is it to drive with them?

 

Hannu,

 

Yes, there are 11 leafs in the original front set, 6 in the new front set (2 of which I removed).

   Measurements for the original fronts:

arch:5-1/8" (measured from a straight edge across the center of the eyes)

eye to eye centers:34-1/2"

center of rear eye to locating pin:18-3/4" (measured diagonally)*

center of front eye to locating pin:17" (measured diagonally)*

Everything should be identical for the new fronts, with the exception of the arch-which I didn't measure prior to installing them & then removed 2 leafs.

 

There are 10 leafs in the original rear set, 7 in the new Posies 3" lowered rear set (2 of which I removed)

   Measurements for the original rears:

arch:7-1/8" (measured from a straight edge across the center of the eyes)

eye to eye centers:50-1/2"

center of rear eye to locating pin:28-1/8" (measured diagonally)*

center of front eye to locating pin:24-1/4" (measured diagonally)*

Everything should be identical for the new rears, with the exception of the arch-which I didn't measure prior to installing them & then removed 2 leafs.

 

*I've been told another way to measure for the locating pin location in relation to the center line of the eyes, is to set the leaf springs on the ground to form an arch, mark the eye center lines, plumb down from the locating pin & take those measurements. My measurements are with the leaf springs laying flat on the ground. If you need them measured differently, let me know. 

 

The bumpers were in this condition when I got the car & it's garaged....so that helps. Yes, the tires are Firestone Champion Deluxe 6.00-16 bias ply & it's not bad to drive at all. I don't drive it as often as I'd like, but the times I've had on the freeway, 65 mph, it wasn't bad at all (I've also rebuilt my entire front suspension & steering box-which I'm sure helps a lot). Now, my 1962 Harley Davidson Panhead with the exact same tire, except the motorcycle version, is a little different....it sometimes likes to track the rain grooves on the freeway & feels a little "loose", but after about 20 years, pretty much used to it.

[dodge38]

Thanks Derek for taking the time to measure the springs!

 

Seems like your front springs are a bit different than either one of mine, and the arch difference explains why my car was quite low already. According to Eaton the correct way of measuring the springs is along the leaf (check the link) but those numbers you gave me are good enough for comparison purposes.

 

http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/how-to-measure-leaf-springs/

 

Thanks for the tire info as well, I'm more confident now to use that setup in my car as well.

[deathbound]

Thanks Derek for taking the time to measure the springs!

 

Seems like your front springs are a bit different than either one of mine, and the arch difference explains why my car was quite low already. According to Eaton the correct way of measuring the springs is along the leaf (check the link) but those numbers you gave me are good enough for comparison purposes.

 

http://www.eatondetroitspring.com/how-to-measure-leaf-springs/

 

Thanks for the tire info as well, I'm more confident now to use that setup in my car as well.

 

Thanks for the link. I had the arch measurement, the A/B measurements were close......just should've followed the arch of the spring instead of straight to the center bolt. Glad you're able to use them.

[dodge38]

Derek,

I got the quote for the Eaton front and rear springs, 758 cad per pair and that sounds quite steep to me. Those both would be 2,5 inch lower than stock, 5 leafs in the front, 9 leafs in the rear.

Posies rear springs I understand are around 400 usd a pair, do you mind me asking how much your front springs were?

I'm waiting for Posies to reply to me if they could provide the front springs as well.

Your original springs still usable...?

[deathbound]

Derek,

I got the quote for the Eaton front and rear springs, 758 cad per pair and that sounds quite steep to me. Those both would be 2,5 inch lower than stock, 5 leafs in the front, 9 leafs in the rear.

Posies rear springs I understand are around 400 usd a pair, do you mind me asking how much your front springs were?

I'm waiting for Posies to reply to me if they could provide the front springs as well.

Your original springs still usable...?

 

The fronts were around $320. My original rears are still useable.....though a little soft after 75 years. The front passenger spring rear eye is broken off, the drivers side is ok.....probably a little soft also.

 

Check out this thread:http://p15-d24.com/topic/33585-new-ways-to-lower-the-rear-end/

Edited January 14, 2014 by deathbound

[dodge38]

Thanks Derek, that price sounds much better.

Posies is saying that they can provide the springs to the front as well but it won't be much lower than the original. Waiting for the quote and some more details.

I also asked if they recommend the original shackles or if I could use some modern style. Seems like all spring eyes are 3/4 inches so would be quite easy to add urethane bushings.

[dodge38]

Derek,

Posies front springs would be 525usd a pair, those would be only 1-1,5inch lower than original. They were saying that still it makes sense to lower the rear more since originally rear was quite high. No idea yet about the shipping costs so didn't order anything.

Found a front end from 38 dodge coupe here in Ontario, it has usable leafs so may use them if buy that, it's about 3 hours drive away. Measured the spring eyes again and now looks like they are 7/8 inches.

[sbright66]

Hey Guys,

 

Great thread,  I am currently swapping in the Butch's 5 inch drop axle and my drivers side front leaf is moving forward and aft now that I have removed the sway bar? set up. I do not get a warm fuzzy that the new sway bar and shocks will eliminate this movement.   Is there anyway to control that or do I need to weld in a solid perch on the rear like the passenger side?  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

Steve

[deathbound]

Hey Guys,

Great thread, I am currently swapping in the Butch's 5 inch drop axle and my drivers side front leaf is moving forward and aft now that I have removed the sway bar? set up. I do not get a warm fuzzy that the new sway bar and shocks will eliminate this movement. Is there anyway to control that or do I need to weld in a solid perch on the rear like the passenger side? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Steve

[deathbound]

First off, this is the first and last time I try to reply from my phone.

Steve, are you referring to the 2 bars(?) that clamp to and hold the front axle from moving forward and backward? As far as installing a fixed leaf spring mount like the passenger side, I think that would have a similar effect like the rear axle is secured. Do you have to alter the steering arms that connect to the spindles to lower the rod that ties each side together? I'm asking because I'm thinking there might be clearance issues. I'd love to see pics of the install because I have looked at those dropped axles for a while. Good luck, Derek

[james curl]

I have a 35/36 Dodge frame that the rear of the drivers front spring mounts to a spring loaded perch.  The rear, I would think should be mounted the same as the right front spring.  It mounts solid to a perch riveted to the frame.  It appears that the left front spring could move fore and aft inducing tremendous bump steer with the fixed drag link side steering.  It probably does not but appears like it should.

[sbright66]

Derek,

 

You do not have to alter the steering arms as they come with the kit.   Everything from the kit seems fine, just need to secure the one spring and then mount the vega box and shocks.  I decided on this kit as I want to go with a 50's hot rod theme. I will take pics later today.

 

Steve

[deathbound]

Derek,

 

You do not have to alter the steering arms as they come with the kit.   Everything from the kit seems fine, just need to secure the one spring and then mount the vega box and shocks.  I decided on this kit as I want to go with a 50's hot rod theme. I will take pics later today.

 

Steve

 

Steve, I know it's only been a week......any progress pics.....I'm anxious!

[sbright66]

Derek,

 

I have been very busy and haven't had time to work on it.  I did make a spring perch and sway bar mounts now just have to fine time to weld them in.  I will take some pics soon.

 

Steve

[TodFitch]

I have a 35/36 Dodge frame that the rear of the drivers front spring mounts to a spring loaded perch. The rear, I would think should be mounted the same as the right front spring. It mounts solid to a perch riveted to the frame. It appears that the left front spring could move fore and aft inducing tremendous bump steer with the fixed drag link side steering. It probably does not but appears like it should.

That odd rear mount on front left spring is designed to reduce bump steer. Supposedly the factory engineers knew what they were doing it works. That innovation came after my car was built so I haven't closely examined it to figure out the principle.