Forgive Me

[JohnTeee]

Forgive me fellow Mopar Drivers,

It's been almost three years since my last visit.

I accuse myself of the following sins:

I have neglected a fine piece of Rolling Detroit Steel.

My P-15 has been parked in the garage.

The differential leaks.

I probably have bad brakes.

There is a layer of dust on my car.

I am sorry for my sins.

Please forgive me.

OK. That's off my chest. No desecration of The Sacrament of Reconciliation is intended. Just a little pun.

It's time for me to get my car rolling again. My 18 year old son wants to take a date out for a spin in it and I really do miss driving it.

With the aim of fixing my leaking differential, we've pulled the axle out and have it sitting alongside the car. It was leaking oil out the front of the differential - coming out the FRONT side of the Drive Pinion Flange. From looking at things, I would think that a leaking Oil Seal would cause oil to leak around the sleeve on the back of the flange, inside the seal, with oil coming out the back side of the flange. Of note, the Pinion Flange Nut turned off by hand, with a socket on it. Looks like specs call for it to be tightened to 180 ft. lbs.

So, other than apparently having to replace the Oil Seals in the Brake Supports on each side (just had my son pull the hubs to see how the brakes looked - not good in the back), I'd appreciate any thoughts on the differential.

The new Pinion Oil Seal looks a bit different from the old one. The old one, with the leather seal, is a little 'Wedding Cake' shaped; kind of like a tire laying on its side with a smaller tire laying on it. The new seal is just a single 'dimension'; kind of like looking at a modern tire laying on its side.

So any thoughts would be appreciated on:

- Easiest way to pull the old Pinion Oil Seal.

- Any other considerations for oil coming from the the front of the Pinion Flange.

- Anything special I need to know to put the Pinion Oil Seal back in place.

- Anything I'm not thinking of?

Thanks in advance. Hope to be back and stay back.

John

Edited September 26, 2011 by JohnTeee

[BobT-47P15]

Glad to hear from you again John. Has been a long time.

Yep, ya need to get that ol ragtop going again.

Also, I seem to recall you once said there was another convert somewhere

in your area.....did you ever check it out?

[Tom Skinner]

John,

A small narrow puller will do for the pinion seal. I bought mine at Car Quest and ground it down just right with my grinding wheel. It work just dandy.

Tom

[Tom Skinner]

John,

NAPA sell a Speedy Sleeve for the yolk I believe its just smaller than 1-7/8" using thousnadths they will check it for you. It only costs about $35.

The seal is also about $30.

Good Luck

Tom

[JohnTeee]

John,

NAPA sell a Speedy Sleeve for the yolk ...

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the reply. Were you suggesting a Speedi-Sleeve for the rear axles? I think the axles LOOK to be in pretty good shape. Don't think the axle oil seals have been replaced in a long time . . . Actually, just went through maintenance records back to 1973 and neither the axle oil seals OR the pinion oil seal look to have been replaced since we've had it!

I found a new Pinion Oil Seal at the local bearing dealer. Chicago Rawhide #18880. Ran me $14. My dad thinks that if I have oil leaking from the front of the differential, that this would be the only possible source. The in-place seal is still one of the leather seal type. If anyone can use them (I noticed the parts reference only had the MoPar #), here are some cross reference numbers I found for the Pinion Oil Seal:

MoPar #663602

NAPA #18880

National #5851

Chicago Rawhide #18880

Federal Mogul#473240

John

[JohnTeee]

John,

A small narrow puller will do for the pinion seal. I bought mine at Car Quest and ground it down just right with my grinding wheel. It work just dandy.

Tom

Thanks Tom. I'll look into using something like that. I actually have a hammer pull that I may be able to adapt. Now that I have the seal, and an ideal of how the old one sits in there, it looks fairly easy.

John

[JohnTeee]

Glad to hear from you again John. Has been a long time.

Yep, ya need to get that ol ragtop going again.

Also, I seem to recall you once said there was another convert somewhere

in your area.....did you ever check it out?

Hi Bob,

A gentleman lives just 'around the corner' from me (a couple miles up the State Hwy to the intersection of the next State Hwy) and did indeed have a '49 Plymouth Convertible, black, with a tan top. Have not seen it in a long time, or stopped by there in a long time.

Now, it turns out littlemo has contacted me and lives in the area . . . I have to ask him if this is his car. I have a strong suspicion . . .

I had not thought about your being in Joplin! I saw your posting about a new house under construction. Did you lose your house with the tornado? Damage to the Plymouth?!?!

John

[JohnTeee]

Guess I can add a couple of numbers to the 'Oil Seal Assemble - brake support to shaft'

Listed:

MoPar #859 164

NAPA #19773

Trostel #T7769S

Additional:

National #3794 (crossed from the NAPA number)

CR #19773

Have two on order from my local bearing place for $10.66 apiece. Should be here early next week.

Now, to run out and buy a new 6V battery.

John

[TodFitch]

... If anyone can use them (I noticed the parts reference only had the MoPar #), here are some cross reference numbers I found for the Pinion Oil Seal:

MoPar #663602

NAPA #18880

National #5851

Chicago Rawhide #18880

Federal Mogul#473240

Thanks for the cross references! I've just updated my database to show the National, Chicago Rawhide and Federal Mogul numbers. I already had the NAPA cross. My notes also show that the Chrysler 663602 was superceded by Chrysler 1271104

http://www.ply33.com/Parts/group3#3-22-45

[JohnTeee]

Thanks for the cross references! I've just updated my database to show the National, Chicago Rawhide and Federal Mogul numbers. I already had the NAPA cross. My notes also show that the Chrysler 663602 was superceded by Chrysler 1271104

http://www.ply33.com/Parts/group3#3-22-45

Morning Todd,

Thanks for your database. I found that when I googled the original 663602 number and cross reference. I'll try to go through my notes and see if I have any other numbers I can add. Are old numbers useful (from the '70s and '80s)?

John

[TodFitch]

Morning Todd,

Thanks for your database. I found that when I googled the original 663602 number and cross reference. I'll try to go through my notes and see if I have any other numbers I can add. Are old numbers useful (from the '70s and '80s)?

John

Thanks for the offer! Old cross references from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. are very welcome. Sometimes you can find those parts at a swap meet or on ePay. And sometimes you can use them to cross to currently available parts.

[james49ply]

You stated that the nut came off by hand, I will suggest that you now have a bit of wear on the pinion and yoke splines, when you replace the yoke, clean all oil off the yoke and pinion splines, assemble and when you install the washer and nut, use a sealer under the washer to the face of the splines. I have seen this many times where the oil seeps down the splines and causes the leak.

[JohnTeee]

You stated that the nut came off by hand, I will suggest that you now have a bit of wear on the pinion and yoke splines, when you replace the yoke, clean all oil off the yoke and pinion splines, assemble and when you install the washer and nut, use a sealer under the washer to the face of the splines. I have seen this many times where the oil seeps down the splines and causes the leak.

Thanks James. With where my oil seemed to be leaking from, that makes complete sense. Unfortunately, I found your reply AFTER I got the new seal in place, put it back together and torqued it to about 150! <grin> If it continues to leak, it will be pretty easy to pull things apart again and get something in there.

John

[JohnTeee]

Thanks for the cross references! I've just updated my database to show the National, Chicago Rawhide and Federal Mogul numbers. I already had the NAPA cross. My notes also show that the Chrysler 663602 was superceded by Chrysler 1271104

Todd, my apologies and that is a BAD number for the brake support oil seal. Just got two SKF 19773 in yesterday and they are too large for the opening in the brake support plate and for a larger axle.

Back to the drawing board!

John

[TodFitch]

Todd, my apologies and that is a BAD number for the brake support oil seal. Just got two SKF 19773 in yesterday and they are too large for the opening in the brake support plate and for a larger axle.

Back to the drawing board!

John

Hi John,

When I enter the Chrysler part number into NAPA Online I get a cross to NOS 13797 which is listed as a "Wheel Seal - Outer - Rear Wheel". I've changed my database to show that one. Let me know if it works for you.

Thanks for the new information.

Tod

[JohnTeee]

Hi John,

When I enter the Chrysler part number into NAPA Online I get a cross to NOS 13797 which is listed as a "Wheel Seal - Outer - Rear Wheel"

Tod

Thanks Tod! Just checked with AutoZone for "13797". Crosses over to Timken 6241S:

Seal Housing Bore (in): 2.437

Seal Housing Material: Steel

Seal Installation Style: Press Fit

Seal Lip Material: Nitrile

Seal Outside Diameter (in): 2.441

Seal Shaft Size (in): 1.375

Seal Width (in): 0.25

Anyone have dimensions for the P15 "Wheel Seal - Outer - Rear Wheel"? On AutoZone's 'Check the fit' feature, it says it does not fit the 1947 Plymouth P15 Special Deluxe . . .

Of note, when I entered the MoPar Part # "859164" (I had no idea you could cross an old MoPar part number on AutoZone website!), that crossed over to the Timken 6241S . . .

Part Number: 6241S

OEM Brand:

Chrysler

OEM Part Number:

859164

John