46 Chrysler Disc Brakes!

[Shawn F.]

Well I am at the point where I need to pull my 46 Chrysler Windsor Business Coupe out of the yard to get ready to move this summer... I figured that this would be the time to get the brakes working on this car for once and actually start some work on it (if money allows). So far since I've bought this car a few years ago, I only tore out the interior, pulled some trim to get rid of some rust and that's it. When I first bought it I could not get the brakes to work no matter how much I tried bleeding them, etc. I am sure the m/c is rusted up, lines are toast, hoses are dry rotted and wheel cylinders are rusted up badly. I have not pulled anything to look but I just know for a fact that the entire brake system needs to be pulled off and all new stuff installed. I have been looking around this site for a few days now on some disc brake kits but still have some questions and worries.

1.) First off, I have been told and saw somewhere online that my 46 Chrysler Windsor is different than a typical Mopar car because it's a business coupe so a typical Mopar disc brake kit will not work. Can anyone confirm this?

2.) I would also like to convert my rear drums to disc as well but keep the original rear end. Is this possible? If so, who makes such a kit?

3.) On one thread here I saw someone mentioned about upgrading from the original 1/4 inch lines to 3/16 inch brake lines, especially if I go to disc brakes.

4.) I plan to stick with the master cylinder under the floor where the stock unit is but have power brakes (booster)... Is there a kit I have to buy for this or is it a over the counter part for a different make, model and year vehicle?

5.) With doing a disc brake swap, can I use my original wheels? I'd hate to have to buy new wheels and especially if I cannot use the stock hubcaps.

Pretty much ANY info on this would be greatly appreciated! I know this is not a Chrysler website but I like these forums better than the Yahoo Chrysler group because it's easier for me to keep up with the threads posted here. As for purchasing the brakes, this will not happen for at least 3 months because I just do not have the money to do anything with the car and I'm sure doing all 4 disc brakes will be around $800-$1000. I also still need new tires, wiring harness, floors welded in, go through the entire engine, rebuild the carb, etc etc.

Thanks a LOT in advance guys!

[55 Fargo]

Not sure there is anything different with your front spindles, than any other Chrysler. Is your car a C38 Windsor 6 cyl Biz Coupe, if so, then the drums will be 11 inch respectively.

ECI makes both front and ear disc brake conversion kits, and the upgrade dual MC.

I would check with Oldaddy first for the kits, he was developing the bigger Chrysler adaptor plates.

The Plym spindles were smaller than thos of the Chrysler, Dodge, and Desoto.

I do not know of the Chrysler Biz Coupe being any different than any other Chrysler braking system.

I would ay the whole conversion would be closer to $1500.00, with dual MC, if your already going that route, maybe a modern diff in the rear may fit the bill...

[Paul Beard]

You could call A.A.J. Brakes. I have his business card and it says Disc Brake Conversions Chrysler products. I used his front disc kit on mt "53" dodge truck without any problems.You should at least talk to Roger. Heres his site and phone number.

www.aakbrakes.bravepages.com

503-890-1469

almost forgot he sells both front and rear disc conversiosn that fit stock spindles and axles. He will sell you entire kit or just brackets and you can buy the rest of the parts yourself.

[Gary Manes]

Chryslers are:

1. Windsors (121.5") and New Yorkers/Saratogas (127.5") regular wheel base; and

2, Windsors (139" and 145") and New Yorker/Saratogas (139" and 145") long-wheelbase.

You did not mention if your business coupe was a Windsor or a New Yorker, so just be aware the long wheelbase will have bigger components than the shorter Windsor.

I think the 145" is correct for the long limousine version, but that is not important. The suspension parts are the same. Needless to say, the long wheel base models use bigger suspension components and bigger wheels. That is it as far as your interests go. There are many other differences which do not impact your project.

You are probably correct about buying new wheels. At least on the early kits, the wheels were not deep enough to clear the calipers. If that is still true then new wheels are required.

By the way, the web site for the brake company cited did not work.

[claybill]

yup/...you are lookin' at new wheels and tires...another grand +

bill

[Jim Yergin]

I have the AAJ setup on both my front and rear brakes on my '41 Plymouth and I am using original Plymouth 15" wheels.

Jim Yergin

[Shawn F.]

Thanks for the info guys. I would like to go with oldaddys parts to help a fellow board member out. I think I will give him a call this week sometime. I did read a site last night saying that with the gm metric callers, I can grind a hump down and use my original wheels. If this is the case then I will be very happy.

As for the model of my car it is a Windsor biz coupe with the 251 inline flathead six cylinder. As for the rear end I am not sure if I should do a swap or keep it stock and upgrade to disc. I think I saw somewhere that an 89 Dakota rear will work, is this correct? If so then I wouldn't mind the stock Dakota drums since they will be easier and cheaper to rebuild. Then I would have to figure out the best gearing to go with...

[55 Fargo]

Thanks for the info guys. I would like to go with oldaddys parts to help a fellow board member out. I think I will give him a call this week sometime. I did read a site last night saying that with the gm metric callers, I can grind a hump down and use my original wheels. If this is the case then I will be very happy.

As for the model of my car it is a Windsor biz coupe with the 251 inline flathead six cylinder. As for the rear end I am not sure if I should do a swap or keep it stock and upgrade to disc. I think I saw somewhere that an 89 Dakota rear will work, is this correct? If so then I wouldn't mind the stock Dakota drums since they will be easier and cheaper to rebuild. Then I would have to figure out the best gearing to go with...

Good for you Shawn, I am sure Old Daddy can outfit you for the front.

As far as your diff is concerned, a lot of the Windsors that had the M5 semi-auto trans, many came with 3.54 gears in the back end, which is what you want, makes for good highway cruising.

If your diff is in good shape, and the drums are within spec, no more than 11.060, after machining, then what's to rebuild the brakes, still need all new lines hoses, get 2 wheel cyls for the rear, and have the shoes relined or get others.

If your diff is a 3.54 it may be worth keeping, if not, you should be able to sell it easily on here, as it will bolt on to any of our cars, providing it is a 10 spline axle set-up OEM type rear end.

You can still go with a dual MC and power booster, which will o doubt costa few bucks, and make you sweat a little while getting it installed and set-up......

[Gary Manes]

Thanks for the heads up on the correct address!

I plan on doing the same thing on my Desoto when we get her running with that 265 cu in from a 1954 Chrysler Windsor that I recently stumbled across.

Would be nice to be able to use the same wheels. I have already purchased 1950(?) full wheel covers for her, so that is not an issue--just the expense.

[Olddaddy]

I have kits currently available to fit every Mopar from about 1931 to 1959. That covers all of the 1/2 and 3/4 ton Dodge and Plymouth trucks. And all models of the Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, and DeSoto cars. I've updated the caliper brackets so the caliper can be installed without any grinding. You do have to drill out and tap the three mounting holes to install the brackets on cars, and two holes on the trucks. You will also have to drill out the steering arm mounting holes. I can do this for you if you can't do it. You can most likely use your original wheels, but since there are so many different wheels over the past 70 years I can't guarantee that. My kits are currently $175 including shipping to lower 48 addresses. More info on my web page, www.rustyhope.com. I am happy to answer any questions via email-olddaddy@rustyhope.com, or here on the forum, but I don't do phone support.

[Paul Beard]

Sorry about the web site I listed not working I just coppied it from the Business card that was in with my parts that I bought from Roger.

[Shawn F.]

I have no clue the differential gearing, all I know is that I have a Fluid drive trans...

[wayfarer]

If you are going disc on the front then a new rear axle with oem disc may be a good option. There are a couple of advantages to replacing the stock axle, but mostly the newer brakes will be less involved and less costly to rebuild. And, given the prices at some pik-n-pul yards a complete axle may be cheaper than just a conversion package.

Mustangs and Explorers are popular donors and have oem disc brakes and many also have positraction (or whatever Ford calls it).

Have you had occasion to measure your existing axle drum-to-drum?

[Shawn F.]

I have not measured my stock rear end yet, no. Probably is something I need to do. I do have a built Chevy S-10 rear end with a high performance series Auburn differential, 3.42:1 Richmond ring and pinion, street/strip Moser axles and new bearings and seals. At least the paper I have for it shows this information from the old owner who rebuilt it and threw it in an S10 I bought. I am not sure if the specs on an S10 rear work for this Chrysler but would be nice... I have saved this rear for a T bucket or 29 Roadster project but wouldn't mind using it for the Windsor.

[wayfarer]

...the s-10 will have a different wheel bolt pattern... The Ford is the same as Mopar.

[Shawn F.]

Ah, stupid me, I did not think about the bolt pattern...

[55 Fargo]

I have not measured my stock rear end yet, no. Probably is something I need to do. I do have a built Chevy S-10 rear end with a high performance series Auburn differential, 3.42:1 Richmond ring and pinion, street/strip Moser axles and new bearings and seals. At least the paper I have for it shows this information from the old owner who rebuilt it and threw it in an S10 I bought. I am not sure if the specs on an S10 rear work for this Chrysler but would be nice... I have saved this rear for a T bucket or 29 Roadster project but wouldn't mind using it for the Windsor.

Shawn go ahead and measure, but don't be so quick to get rid of your stock diff, especially as I have mentioned it could be a 3.54.

Really once the drums are measured,machined, and you have new linings, the wheel cyls are not that expensive.

Yes pulling the drums can be a pain, but once set-up, how many times do you need to pull drums.

The modern diff, with rear discs are nice, and especially the e-brake capabilities,or with drums the bendix, type brakes.

Mark your drive shaft, and mark 1 rear tire, spin the tire 1 full revolution, see how many times your mark on the drive shaft spins, if it is spinnng at 1 to 3.5 times, that is your answer.

Really unless your planning on pulling your engine and trans for a hemi or another super powered V8, I would give your present diff a chance if it is in good shape.

The flat head 6, and M5 semi-auto trans, pulls away mighty slow, but this will be more pronounced, with higher gears.

Either way, all the best to you.....

[Shawn F.]

Rockwood, I have been thinking about what you said here and this may be my best and easiest route to go. I will check into my stock rear end here in the next couple weeks and go from there. I do not plan to run a Hemi or anything crazy, just the stock 251 inline 6 motor and stock fluid drive trans. I may beef up the motor when I have it rebuilt with a cam, shave the head some to raise compression, dual carb manifold, etc but nothing too crazy. I want to keep this car to where if I sell it then I can put it 95% back to stock.

[55 Fargo]

Rockwood, I have been thinking about what you said here and this may be my best and easiest route to go. I will check into my stock rear end here in the next couple weeks and go from there. I do not plan to run a Hemi or anything crazy, just the stock 251 inline 6 motor and stock fluid drive trans. I may beef up the motor when I have it rebuilt with a cam, shave the head some to raise compression, dual carb manifold, etc but nothing too crazy. I want to keep this car to where if I sell it then I can put it 95% back to stock.

Hey Shawn all good plans, get some more HP out of the old flat head.

With the fluid drive coupler, and M5 trans, they are not noted for neck snapping take offs, that is for sure.

I have driven a 1948 Windsor wit this very set-up, they are in no hurry to leave the lights "so to speak".

My car, which is a 1947 Chrysler Royal 6 passenger Coupe, came stock with fluid drive, (meaning the coupler), and a 3 spd trans, like some Dodges and Desotos. The Royal line in Canada, often were equipped with a 3 spd trans and fluid drive, as standard equipment, they were the entry level Chryslers, and you know what they made way more Windsor on the production line than Royals, so my car is rarer, than the same model with a Windsor badge.

My car now has only a regular clutch, 3 spd trans, and 3.73 rear end, the fluid drive was gone when I got the car, my entire drive train is from a 1951 Canadian Dodge, including front spindles and drums. I did not do this, but someone related to me did this before knowing what should have been done to create a period correct car, so be it. My car has more umph off the line than a fluid drive, exactly how much I do not know.

Back in the 50s and early 60s it was not uncommon for Guys wanting more power to dump the fluid drive fora regular clutch and 3 spd trans.

I however would probably enjoy having a fluid drive, like the fact of not needing the clutch for stop and go traffic in town....

[oldodge41]

I believe to check your gear ratio on an open (non posi-traction) rear differential, you jack up one rear wheel and rotate it two complete revolutions while counting drive-shaft revolutions. About 4 revolutions is probably a 4.10 and about 3.5 revolutions is probably a 3.54 etc.. On a sure grip, posi-traction, or locked type differential you raise both wheels and rotate the wheel one revolution while counting drive-shaft revolutions. That is the info I found while making my rear swap and it seemed to work well..............Tim

[Shawn F.]

Tim, thanks for the info as well. I have heard of this method to get close as far as gear ratio. Once I pull this thing out of my back yard and onto level ground I will begin pulling the wheels, brakes and check the rear end out good. If I end up keeping it then I will rebuild the brakes, new bearings and seals. That should freshen it up quite nicely. Maybe for now I will keep the stock master cylinder until I can get funds to do a dual with power booster. I want to be able to get this thing on the road because I know from experience that if I tear it down too much and it takes too long then I will lose interest and on the back burner it will go.

I'm sure a lot here can relate to that.