tysouthwick Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 so why is it better to have a 180 degree thermo and where do I get one? and what is a Pcv valve and has any one put one on a flathead and would I need to do any modifications to my block to put one on or does it bolt to where the road draft tube goes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Good morning. The 180 will allow the engine run hotter which in turn raises the temp of the oil and allows it to better vaporize moisture in the crankcase which can then be removed by the PCF system. As far as the PCV system itself-I believe there are kits available from Vintage Power Wagons. The system replaces the road draft tube with fittings/plumbing that hook the crankcase ventilation system to the vacuum side of the engine to help "persuade" the moisture to leave the system. It isn't dependant on ground speed like the road draft tube-as long as there is engine vacuum the system is drawing the vaporized moisture (after the oil is up to temp-and this will take more than a few minutes driving)into the intake. Makes for much cleaner engine oil and helps to keep the crankcase free of sludge. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 are there any pics of this pcv system on a 218? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 found the pics' man I love this forum!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 found the pics' man I love this forum!! Where? Thanks, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Where?Thanks, Hank Here is a good place to start looking. http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/search.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysouthwick Posted June 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Then were do I get a 180 thermo, or can I pull one off of a different engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 Try NAPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted June 14, 2010 Report Share Posted June 14, 2010 (edited) Here is a good place to start looking.http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/search.php Thanks, Hank Vintage Power Wagons has a part for $25 that replaces the downdraft tube, then there is another part that costs $11, then you need some plumbing parts depending on your model/year that you have to pick up locally. Edited June 14, 2010 by HanksB3B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 type pcv adapter in search! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 can I tee off of the vacuum that runs my wipers for pcv? My carb. has no place to hook up -----unless i add something?? has little plugs where it could possibly be a place to put a hose barb??? wipers hook to the only spot on my manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 can I tee off of the vacuum that runs my wipers for pcv? My carb. has no place to hook up -----unless i add something?? has little plugs where it could possibly be a place to put a hose barb??? wipers hook to the only spot on my manifold. I think I'm in the same boat with my 51 B3B. Call Vintage Power Wagons (888-695-0578) and talk to Yenz. He is extremely knowledgeable . He asked me what carb I had and if it had a lifter block. That would be good information to know before you speak to him. If you do talk to him please let us know what he says. Thanks, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41/53dodges Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 sorry, but does anybody have proof that the PCV is so much better? in the end it is still just being put through the engine int atmosphere. as long as the radiator fan is working and the tubes are not blocked, the whole system should take care of itself. the fan will blow air at the tube and make the draft, and the tubes will have a "chimney" effect anyways. the only reason for a PCV is to burn the gases that come from the crankcase instead of sending them straight to atmosphere. a PCV is like lead additive for fuel or zinc tablets for oil, they are like a diamond collar for your dog. if it makes you feel good, then buy it. otherwise, it makes no difference. and yes, the 180 stat is worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 The 180 t-stat helps the engine get hot enough to evaporate any condensation in the crankcase. Adding a PCV system takes full benefit of the hydrocarbons put into a motor, as blow-by gases & evaporated water are forced out of the engine crankcase through the combustion chamber instead of being allowed to flash off by free convection. With moisture removed from the crankcase, sludge is much less likely to form. As for definitive proof, look into what military issue Power Wagons did on their flathead engines. All have a PCV system to keep moisture out of the engine from fording waterways. The added benefit of removing condensate from the crankcase was one of those accidental discoveries as engine maintenance showed with oil visibly containing less contaminants (black vs. dark brown). Chrysler even went so far as to issue several service bulletins concerning the use of PCV systems back in the late 40s. Vacuumatic crankcase ventilators were added to engines at dealerships, but I reckon Chrysler didn't add this at the factory because of the increased cost at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 Its no diamond studded collar in my book. The oil remains clear in appearance much longer, and a working PCV system has a scavenging effect for the crankcase that I believe is much more efficient and cleaner than the draft tube using existing vacuum. I cannot believe that Detroit would go to additional costs of incorporating this on vehicles if it didn't have a positive effect. Just my 2 cents of having been there and done that. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero3113 Posted June 15, 2010 Report Share Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) Dakota,here are some pics of my PCV on my 218. I got the parts from VPW and the plumbing from the hardware store.I tapped into the wiper port. The oil fill cap I got from a local auto parts store and used epoxy to seal it. Edited June 15, 2010 by aero3113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 thanks aero3113, I take it that you've converted to a paper filter element?, I want to do that as well. my intake is not tapped at the same spot as yours. mine is on the side/just in front of the carb. Thanks for going first, after seeing yours I feel more comfortable tapping into my wipers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 16, 2010 Report Share Posted June 16, 2010 On your second pic you have a copper line going into the bottom of your carb. What does that go to??? that fitting on my carb looks to have been brazed shut!! is that vacuum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 that copper line goes to the vacuum wipers...in the 4th pic, this can be seen behind #5 spark plug. FYI: there are several variations on the 23" block intake manifolds. My '49 has the vacuum port for the wipers between #5 & #6 cylinders, as well as a port around #3 pointing towards the right front fender, but this one is larger, maybe 2-3 sizes up, with a bushing & a plug installed. I have a '53 flathead that has neither of these, but there is a casting belly-button in the same area as the '49 for the wipers, probably made by a plug inserted in the original mold to eliminate this port. The larger port was also moved to just below the carburetor flange. My assumption is that Chrysler decided to use one vacuum port on the intake manifold instead of two to reduce cost (one less hole to tap). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41/53dodges Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 okay, heres an idea. a pcv system is operated by making a vacuum in the crankcase, so with the radiator fan going and the filter "top hat" faced the right direction, wouldnt that create a venturi effect (how a carburator pulls fuel) in the filter housing and crankcase, therefore making a similar effect to a pcv that is just much simpler. it may not be quite as effective as far as pressure, but the volume is much greater. does anybody else see what i mean or am i just talking at myself? (no, im not against the pcv setup, but im just looking at both ways, both as somebody who likes fixing things and as a professional procrastinator) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 man, I don't know I was kind of thinking that, but on the pics he has a hose that would be sucking air OUT of the breather and into the crankcase then the pcv/vacuum sucks it out of the crankcase and into the cylinders? right? if the breather/venturi effect worked like you say it would be sucking from both????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41/53dodges Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 sure, if you have both setups. come to think of it, neither system is neccessary on most engines due to blow-by (leaky rings) that create pressure in the crankcase anyways. a pcv cant hurt anything, though. its more or less just moving crap from one end of the engine to another, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1949dakota Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 (edited) I can't speak for others-- but this engine has outlasted thousands that have pcv systems from the factory-- I'm cool with the idea of removing moisture so I don't get sludge builup. and if I ever cross a river I'll be less likely to get water in my crankcase:) BUT the main reason I want a pcv(and new exhaust manifoldgaskets) is to get rid of those fumes. My wife likes to smell "pretty" not "pretty stinky" !! Edited June 17, 2010 by 1949dakota off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 the first day I bought my truck and drove it home, the girl waiting for the bus was covered in a black cloud of smoke and was never to be seen or heard from again. I had a PVC system that without knowing what I now know, considered it a Mickey Mouse setup to appease California's initial attempt to curb air pollution. I'm not convinced it did anything other than pipe pollutants back down the carburator throat intensifying the situation because I took handfulls of sludge out from behind the valve cover plates. Certainly I realize that this all has nothing to do with the presence of a PCV system because as far as I know the truck could have been run for 50,000 miles before the PCV system was added. Not pro or con on it, just not sure yet if I will seek to install another PCV system or not. Hank okay, heres an idea. a pcv system is operated by making a vacuum in the crankcase, so with the radiator fan going and the filter "top hat" faced the right direction, wouldnt that create a venturi effect (how a carburator pulls fuel) in the filter housing and crankcase, therefore making a similar effect to a pcv that is just much simpler. it may not be quite as effective as far as pressure, but the volume is much greater. does anybody else see what i mean or am i just talking at myself? (no, im not against the pcv setup, but im just looking at both ways, both as somebody who likes fixing things and as a professional procrastinator) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 a PCV system isn't necessary but it helps to keep those fumes in the crankcase from going to atmosphere. The road draft system does use a venturi effect to move gases, but the big problem is at idle to low speeds. Not enough vacuum is produced to fully extract blow-by gases, so a cloud of sorts forms in the crankcase. I have seen this while setting a loose idle screw as a greyish cloud would be wisping from the oil filler pipe & draft tube. Oil would drip from the draft tube, necessitating cardboard on the floor. And if I'm not mistaken, blow-by gases can dissolve into the crankcase oil, further contaminating the oil with NOx gases that can react with the hydrocarbons to produce all kinds of nasty stuff. The big advantage to the PCV system is that it is on demand all of the time. When routed correctly, PCV will draw gases at idle, at top engine speed, and all speeds in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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