somebody put a p23 front-clip on my p20

[Guest 50Plymouth]

So as I learn about this old thing I somewhat impulsively picked up, I am told that my 1950 p20 2dr. has a front clip from '51 or '52 p23.. I thought those fenders and hood wouldn't even fit an earlier model. Any speculation? The guy with it in his backyard in the pictures told me it was a '50 with a '51 body but another forum said it is a p20 body just like tags say with a later front end.

Title and tags are all '50 of course, interior\dash is '50. plymouthbulletin forum alerted me, and suggested maybe an old repair job. Arrg. Now someday I'll have to find the correct hood fenders. Do these things happen often on old vehicles?

Ryanm

[JerseyHarold]

Anything is possible with an old car. If it was used for transportation until it was 15 or more years old, the mindset of the owner was probably to fix it the cheapest way possible to keep it going. They didn't care if the repair wasn't original as long as it worked.

[Johnny S]

I'm not sure how easy it was but the entire 49-52 series had very very similar sheet metal construction. And, while not exactly the same the frames were very similar too. And, I have seen 49's with 50 front clips several times. And swapping 51 and 52 clips would seem like a no-brainer. So, it seems quite doable that an entire front clip would have been swapped onto a 50 chassis.

I'm sure you can find another 50 front clip if you want. I've seen at least two 50 clips on eBay in addition to a lot of 50 parts cars. Seems a little novel to me if all the parts fit correctly and you know what's what.

[Johnny S]

This car come out of northern Missouri??

[Guest 50Plymouth]

This car come out of northern Missouri??

south western Iowa. The last title and reg. was in a bottom county of IA. Supposedly been around the area for a while. Recognize anything?

[Plymouthy Adams]

you got a better picture of the door- front fender alignment? these will be unequal unless the doors were changed also..courious to see a picture of that area.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Side shots attached. Hope they say something. Another guy mentioned the tightness of the front bumper. The hood has major gapping with fenders but maybe that is just bad alignment. I really hope this thing isn't p23 body considering the title says 1950 p20 ! Any chance factories switched to new dies late in production?

Here is some information from another forum post regarding this car:

....."Very interesting ! Your car is a 50, judging by the windshield, rear view mirror, width of the rear window, dash and front bumper. Notice how tight the bumper is to the fenders?

It has had a 51 nose put on it which would involve some modification to the back of the hood and to the fenders where they meet the cowl.

Somebody went to a lot of trouble to make these pieces fit. It looks like they did a good job. Send me a direct request and I will look up the starting and ending serial numbers for each year for you. dp"

The thread can be read here from the purist's board: http://plymouthbulletin.com/smf/index.php?topic=887.0

Ryan

[junkyardjeff]

It could be the last 50 made and they ran out of 50 front end parts so they went with 51s,I have a very late 55 ford with 56 parts so anything is possible but its most likely a old repair done with parts on hand. Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

Don't think so the 51/52 is wider across the cowl than the 40/50..the bulge at the doors are not on the same parallel...I contend that if the clip was changed..maybe the doors were also..I could not really see in the last picture the actual aligment along the door edge and front fender..cannot recall what was said about front doors but the rears interchange...the front were possibly the same size..just the bulge was different.

[JerseyHarold]

If the doors were changed the lock cylinders would be different. Does the ignition key fit the doors?

[Guest 50Plymouth]

If the doors were changed the lock cylinders would be different. Does the ignition key fit the doors?

Not sure on that, don't have original or even door keys. In fact the ign. switch has been replaced with an aux. switch mounted just below.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I cannot recall the measured difference between the 49/50 and the later 51/52 door where the bulge at the leading edge starts below the beltline molding but there is a huge difference..say over an inch..this I inspected years ago as I had a set of doors located for the burb but the difference was the bulge and one higher than the other. I did not investigate the door/dog house swap as an option so left it as a no-cigar kinda deal.

[blueskies]

From Bill Ward's http://www.oldplymouths.com website:

Bumpers - The '49 bumper is distinguished by its unique horizontal ridges, very popular with the street rod set. The '50 is more contoured and has but one horizontal ridge. The '51s and '52s have no horizontal ridges and are identical except that the '52 front bunper has two slots for the mounting of the license plate while the '51 is the last year to use a separate plate bracket.

Windshield/Firewall - The '49 windshield is the same as the '50 and the '51 windshield is the same as the '52. Convertible windshields on all years are shorter than on other models. The '51 & '52 bodies are much wider at the windshield, most noticeably at the front door seam, thus the wider windshields on '51s & '52s.

Other differences include the way the spare is mounted in the trunk, windshield wiper pivots (49 & 50), cowl vents and hole positions on the firewall. The main wiring harness hole has been moved to the side of the '52 firewall. Also, about half way through the '50 production run, a rubber plug was substituted for the metal cover over the gas tank sending unit. See later notes on further differences in Canadian manufactured cars.

Front fenders - The main difference between '49 and '50 fenders is in the format of the parking light shell assembly - remember that the parking lights are not integrated into the grille on a '49. However, the design of the '50 grille is such that you can use '49 fenders if you also use '49 parking lights, bezels and lenses. '51 & '52 fenders are interchangeable.

Rear styling - Here is where it gets tricky. A variety of rear treatments makes this more of a problem since there are coupes, 2-door sedans (fastbacks), 4-door sedans, business coupes and wagons to contend with. Rear fenders for a '49 are different than a '50 in general - see Galleries 49 & 50 for examples although there are those who swear that '49 & '50 rear fenders are interchangeable (Author does not know). The subtle difference between '50 - '52 rear fenders lies in the placement of the fender spear mounting holes. On a '50, they are about even with the center of the tail light bezel, but by '52, they have dropped to the lower edge. This is not a particularly big problem unless you happen to mismatch your fenders - then it might look a little funny to the very observant.

Trunk Lids - The '49 is quite unique, with the plate recess being higher. The latch handle and plate light are in one unit and differ from later years. The '50 & '51 lids are identical. The '52 lid has no holes for the "Plymouth" nameplate and uses a "push-to-shut" latch.

Front Doors - '49 and '50 front doors (model for model) are interchangeable. The '51 & 52 front doors (model for model)are identical but are wider at the leading edge due to the extra width of the body. The character line is not as deep as on '49 and '50 front doors. A '49 or '50 front door will not fit on a '51 or a '52.

Rear Doors - These are interchangeable on all 4 years (model for model).

Tail Lights - '49 Tail Lights were mounted above the ridge of the fender at the body seam. '50 thru 52 Tail lights are interchangeable.

Glass/Windows - The '49 rear window is not as wide as the '50. '51 & '52 rear windows are the same but bigger than on the '50. Canadian cars will have chrome vent window frames. Side glass is interchangeable, model for model - throughout '49 - '52. '51 & '52 rear glass is interchangeable but the rubber seal is different. Canadian cars used tempered side glass while American cars generally came with laminated glass. Convertible and hardtop side windows will interchange with the exception of the vent panes which are squared off on the convertible.

There is also a story somewhere on Bill's site about a fellow who changed the front clip on a 49/50 to a 51/52, and the work that it took. It's not an easy direct swap I'm sure...

Pete

[Guest mikeys toy]

my '49; if you look close, you can see the '50 right fron fender. The trim was located below the beltline as the '49s was above and the parklight was recessed compared to flushmount.