mikemaker Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 My jeeps broke and I'm driving the beater full time for a few weeks now. Started it up today and it had a strange noise on acceleration. After some inspection I find the the vibration damper, or Harmonic balance, is just spinning freely on the end of the crankshaft. WHat's the deal? Is it supposed to be keyed in, spline? What holds it in place. There is about 1/4 inch on either side of it and it just spins around. I started this on another thread, but I figure it's better to post it as a new thread. Here's a pic of Don C's vibration damper and mine appears the same. My question is: What the heck happened? I just can't figure how the pulley works fine, and is secure and the but the vibration damper just spins around? It does have 6 bolts going through it. WHat the heck Quote
steveplym Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 On my car it is the same way. The pulley is actually pushed on and pulled off, held on by a large nut in the center. The six bolts actually hold the damper onto the pulley. So the pulley would spin with the crankshaft if the bolts were missing. Quote
Normspeed Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 That couldn't be right Mike. I thought these were keyed, but if not, yours must need a good tightening at the very least. I'll call you tomorrow. My heart may be in New Mexico but my tools are here in Glendora. Quote
james curl Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 My damper de-laminated and I sent it to the Damper Doc in Calif. for rebuild. check to see if the rubber is still laminated to the steel. Quote
Don Coatney Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 The big bolt secures the hub to the crankshaft. The six bolts hold the pulley and the damper to the hub. The rubber in the damper can and will delaminate allowing the damper to freewheel. The 6 bolts will only line up one way. One of them is drilled slightly off center. Here is the hub. Here is the pulley and damper. Complete assembly Pulley and hub Quote
Normspeed Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 Couple questions for you guys...on two engines of mine, both 53 vintage, there is no damper, only the pulley and hub. Any idea when they discontinued the damper and why? Also, sounds like the pulley's gotta come off for repair on Mike's car. Can that be done with the motor in the car or...? Quote
Don Coatney Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 Couple questions for you guys...on two engines of mine, both 53 vintage, there is no damper, only the pulley and hub. Any idea when they discontinued the damper and why?Also, sounds like the pulley's gotta come off for repair on Mike's car. Can that be done with the motor in the car or...? Good questions on the damper on damper off issues. My 53 Desoto engine had a damper. I have seen D-24 engines thad did not have a damper but had the provisions on the front hub for a hand crank even though there was not a crank hole in the radiator. I conclude that the factory used what ever parts they had available at the time of assembly. To repair/replace the damper on Mikes car simply remove the 6 bolts and it should come off directly. No need to remove the big nut and the hub. No puller required. The radiator may have to be removed and possibly the front of the engine may have to be jacked up a bit. Remember the 6 bolt holes will only line up one way. 1 Quote
Normspeed Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 Don, if we pull off the damper for repair, can Mike's car be driven with just the pulley in place until the damper is ready to reinstall? Quote
Young Ed Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 I would think thats ok since lots of the flatheads only have a pulley on the crank. Quote
Normspeed Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 One more question...I can't see from the photos where the rubber part would be located. If the thing is bolted directly to the pulley, where is the rubber part that delaminates? Quote
Don Coatney Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 One more question...I can't see from the photos where the rubber part would be located. If the thing is bolted directly to the pulley, where is the rubber part that delaminates? In this picture you can see the rubber just behind the front plate. Some of the rubber has chipped off and is no longer smooth. Blue paint hides many flaws:D Quote
Young Ed Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 Don now the secret of all that blue paint comes out! Quote
mikemaker Posted September 8, 2008 Author Report Posted September 8, 2008 Cool, thanks for the pics and responses. I pulled the radiator yesterday but did not want to disassemble until I got your valuable input. I am goint to try to take it off this evening and hopefully send some pics. Anyone have a spare in their junk pile that they want to sell me as I kind of need to keep this beast rolling for a while. I figure I can pull off the damper and run with the pulley until I can locate a spare. Unfortunately, it's my driver right now so down time is not really an option. I have my girls car until wed. so I have to do something kinda quick. Thanks Quote
Young Ed Posted September 8, 2008 Report Posted September 8, 2008 Let me see if I have one of the p15 engine laying under my workbench. Getting it off while under there might be another story....... I should have one off the p15 I just parted out too but I'm not sure where that one went. Quote
steveplym Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 Good questions on the damper on damper off issues. My 53 Desoto engine had a damper. I have seen D-24 engines thad did not have a damper but had the provisions on the front hub for a hand crank even though there was not a crank hole in the radiator. I conclude that the factory used what ever parts they had available at the time of assembly.To repair/replace the damper on Mikes car simply remove the 6 bolts and it should come off directly. No need to remove the big nut and the hub. No puller required. The radiator may have to be removed and possibly the front of the engine may have to be jacked up a bit. Remember the 6 bolt holes will only line up one way. This brings me to another question. The engine I just took out of my car had the single pulley with the center bolt that had the cutouts for the hand crank to be inserted. No damper, just pulley. I went ahead and used that one on my engine as when I went to reinstall the damper and pulley I have the part of the damper where the bolts go thru was damaged in removal. So the damper would not fit over the hub flush. I figured I would need to take it to a machine shop to have them fit the two back together. I didn't want to mess with that at the time and put the single pulley on the rebuilt motor without the damper. Now lately I've been having issues with the rear bolt on the lower generator bracket continuing to get loose after driving for several miles. Could there be too much vibration from the damper not being on the motor? I wouldn't think it would matter as I had the same setup on the engine I just took out. Any opinions? Quote
mikemaker Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Posted September 9, 2008 I just pulled the damper off. What do ya suggest? Can I run it without the damper while I either obtain one or fix mine? Quote
Normspeed Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 Fast work Mike! I would probably run without it until a replacement turns up. My 53 218 never did have one and it seems to do OK. Quote
Lou Earle Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 I have several cars with 34 to 54 or later engines in them Some have dampeners some do not. On my 50 fastback I removed the dampener and wide pulley and installed a narrow pulley from junk car- I cannot tell any difference. G. Asche says He really has no idea why they quit using dampener or for that matter why they ever used it. He claims make no difference. Lou Quote
Young Ed Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 My truck engine with 3k miles on it to date. I say go ahead and run it without. This is actually a P23 car engine but I dont believe any of the trucks had the dampeners Quote
mikemaker Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Posted September 9, 2008 Thanks for the advice. I'll put it back together minus the damper tomorrow night. I need to be driving it on Thursday. I think I'll be sticking around here a little more often than I have been lately. It's a great thing being able to tap the knowledge on this site at a moments notice. Normspeed, give me a call. We got to get together for some beers before you go to NM...I'll let you guys know how she runs without the damper, only bummer is that the damper had the timing marks on it. What do you suggest I do about that? mike Quote
Young Ed Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 I suggest you don't try to time your engine until you get a new dampener! Quote
Don Coatney Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 Now lately I've been having issues with the rear bolt on the lower generator bracket continuing to get loose after driving for several miles. Any opinions? Use service removable loctite on the offending bolt. I just pulled the damper off. What do ya suggest? Can I run it without the damper while I either obtain one or fix mine? Yes only bummer is that the damper had the timing marks on it. What do you suggest I do about that?mike Nothing. Unless your engine timing is "off". If it is off then use a vacuum gauge to time your engine. Set the timing at the higest vacuum reading on the gauge. On another issue PBR is not my first choice. Quote
mikemaker Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Posted September 9, 2008 Back in business. Took a couple hours off work today and put er back together sans damper. Drives great, may even start a bit quicker. Muchas Grasias!!! 1 Quote
Don Coatney Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 Back in business. Took a couple hours off work today and put er back together sans damper. Drives great, may even start a bit quicker. Muchas Grasias!!! Good! Quote
Lou Earle Posted September 9, 2008 Report Posted September 9, 2008 Turned the page in my parts book and found some more listings for damper use up thru 54. (book only goes to 1954) I do not doubt this but I have2 53's and no dampener a 54 with dapper and wide belt- it seems all across the board Lou Quote
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