Bmartin

Since we are talking about lowering, has anyone played with adding negative camber to the front suspension to see if it reduces rubbing on the outer fender? Just something that crossed my mind when reading up on the alignment options.

I'd love to see some full side shots. Also, did you measure the distance from the top of the axle to the frame? Curious what kind of travel you have with that setup. I've got 3 inch lowering blocks on old springs. Drive side sits lower than passenger. I've got 2 1/4" on passenger and 1 3/4" on driver before the axle hits the (what I think are stock) bumpstops. Bumpstops look to be about 2" thick.

fstfish: If you could take a measurement from the center of the hub to the maximum outside radius of the caliper, that would be very helpful. The fact that 14" rims fit is very promising. Also, any opinions on how much meat is on the caliper if I needed to do any clearancing. Thanks! EDIT: One more thing I thought of. Could you measure from the wheel mounting face to the outermost point on the hub? I want to see if I can retain the stock hub caps or if they will hit the hub after the conversion. Thanks again.

Well, I think I may be back to where I started. IMO, the previous mechanic just adjusted out all the slop in the master. So I did the same thing. It stops about the same, not great, but stops. I can lock them up below 30 MPH. Its weird since the relief port in the master must be at least partially covered if not completely. But the brakes don't lock up. The only other thing I can think to try is to buy yet another master cylinder. It would end up being a new one, made in China. Not sure I would see any difference in performance and not sure I want to drop another $200 for maybe. I'm going back to looking into a disk conversion for the front and see if the master cylinder/brake booster combo from Butchs Cool Stuff will work with stock rears. The big question is if I can find disc brakes to work with my stock wheels that have a 6" inner radius. ECI's have a 6 1/4" outer radius and do not work. No info from Scarebird when I asked. Rusty Hope did not know for sure, but stated that no one has ever told him they did not work.

Plymouth, CA has all the wine tasting if you are into that. Otherwise, yah, not much in town. My parents live there and they actually picked up my car from a guy in that area.

Yah, I capped the master and its the same. 1" of travel (after taking up the pedal freeplay). If the total pedal travel is 2 1/4", it does not seem right to use up half just in the master. Does the last 1/4" to 1/2" of travel do all the braking? I guess the thing to do is put it all back together and drive it to see what its like. But it feels just like it did last time I drove it and it did not stop well. Todd: I'm trying to quote all my pedal travel #'s after taking up the pedal freeplay. Just to standardize it.

I've got all the lines capped, just hardline and master cylinder. I get 1" of pedal travel before it goes extremely firm. I guess I would have thought it would have been less than that. But adding 1" extra when the brakes are there makes sense. Just not sure if that is correct. EDIT: To answer my own question, I went back to the manual. The total pedal travel (after freeplay) should be between 1 7/8" and 2 1/4". so it pretty much not building any pressure when connected to the brakes and its using half its travel with no brakes. Going to put a cap on the master itself and see if I can get it to have essentially zero travel.

Well, I feel like I may have lost my frame of reference. It felt like the pedal was firm last night. Today I don't seem to be able to get back to that again. I'm back to having the rears out of the system. After the 1" of free travel, I can push the pedal through 2" of travel with my hand. I could have sworn last night that I could only ge like 1/2". Anyone have any pedal travel references to go by? Not really sure If the fronts are good or not now.

I've got the new hardline on and the pedal is still soft. So I pumped up the bleeder and I'm letting it sit to see if any leaks present themselves. The adapter between the hardline and the wheel cylinder does not seem to want to snug up. I'm afraid to keep turning it as I might be stripping it. Its not loose, but it does not give me that feel good stop when something is tight. Although I have a habit of overtorqueing things so we will see. If not leaks pop up. I'll isolate one side at a time and see if that gives me any good info. Inline tube: Not real impressed. I guess I expected the fit to be better for pre-bent lines. There is still a lot of bending needed to get it to match the factory stuff. I'm not good at that even with a couple different benders. Also, when I called and talked to them, the salesmen stated there was no protective coating on the steel lines, then I go back and read online that they are tin coated. I would have gone with the steel instead of the stainless had I known that. I assume it would be easier to bend. The rear line I replaced sits high up over the diff, not snug like the factory line. And its a few inches too long making the fitment that much harder. I may have had better luck the more pliable stuff from the auto parts store. It bend a lot easier by hand.

So I got the pressure bleeder working with a little leakage at the master, but it holds pressure. I capped off the rears and bled just the fronts. I have pedal. It also looked like I have seepage from the passenger rear brake line fitting. Could a very slow leak, cause you to lose the majority of the pressure in the lines? How long can you leave the fluid in the bleeder until it starts to corrode the plastic? I want to use it through the weekend and would prefer not to clean it out till then.

I picked up the 1/2 gallon sprayer. They no longer use a hose barb on the tank. So I'm going to head back and try to find the correct fitting to convert the threaded part on the sprayer to 1/4" hose barb. Alternately, I may be able to use a fitting with 1/4" hose barb on both sides to connect the sprayer hose with the clear hose extension.

Just a quick update. The brakes are no longer locking. I backed off the adjustment a tadd and retorqued the main adjuster bolts with a torque wrench. I'm back to not having a pedal again. Locking could have been over torqued main adjusters, too tight an adjustment, or an effect of the vaccum bleeder. New hard lines on order since I may have seen some wet threads around a rear line. planning on making the pressure bleeder and then isloating the system to just the fronts again. Then work from there. Berbaum did not have any distribution blocks, but I did order a new brake light switch and rebuild kits for the rear wheel cylinders. This gives me some options.

I'm looking at changing out all of my brake lines. I called up inlinetube and they have a kit for a 1941 Plymouth with 117" wheelbase. I need to go home and check my wheelbase, but anyone know if the 1941 would be the same as the 1940 I have? Prebent would be a real time saver.Thanks. EDIT: I confirmed the wheelbases were the same so I went ahead and ordered it. We'll see how easy it fits.

Yah, I'm going to skip the vaccum bleeder. I took the rebuild parts and put them in the new master tonight. First I tried the rubber gasket/washer behind the piston cup, like my old master was assembled. As I thought, it blocked the relief port. So I reassembled with the gasket/washer at the outlet end of the master. Installed and bled the system using the pedal method. Same result, all four brakes locked. I bled the pressure and the master, then went around to each wheel to bleed any pressure there. I adjusted the minor adjusters out a little and them pumped up the brakes again. This time the rears didn't lock up, the fronts got tougher to spin, but did not lock. Could be just air in the system keeping them from locking or perhaps my tight adjustment was too tight. Any reason an overly tight adjustment would keep the master from releasing? I was going to rebuild the old master, but its got a lengthwise scratch in the bore. I can still feel it with my finger nail after working it with a brake hone. Not sure if I can take out enough with the hone to make it usable. That's all the time I have for this week. Might get a few hours next week, but I'm booked for a while.

I was doing some thinking. I started to get my pedal back after readjusting and then using the vaccum bleeder. I'm concerned that the vaccum bleeder is the reason for the master cylinder not releasing pressure. The valve in the master is just a little piece of rubber and may have gotten stuck. Has anyone ever had an issue using a vaccum bleeder? Question: What is the purpose of the valve in the master? The piston will push fluid out and the return springs will push the fluid back to the master. Does the valve limit the flow to prevent cavatating or areation? Not sure.

The one on the left is the new one and the one that was locking up.

OK, I took the two master cylinders apart and I have the rebuild kit. I layed them out next to each other and there are some noticeable differences. I also pulled out my repair manual and scanned in the master cylinder adjustment instructions and the master diagrams. Here is a picture of the disassembled parts next to each other, the new master is on the left, the old master is in the center, and the rebuild kit is on the right. I took some measurements and the bore's are the same at 3.75", the pistons and the main cups (all 3) are the same as well. The first difference I noticed was that the two washers are different, the one from the old master has a lip while the new one is flat. This would essentially make the piston sit back further in the bore. Actually it would make the piston sit further forward in the bore since the stepped down area protrudes further into the bore. Next you see the springs are different free lengths. The new master is 4" and the old is 3". Interestingly, the old master was not noticeably easier to disassemble and the springs felt approx. the same stiffness. Finally, the two masters had the rubber gasket/washer in different places. The old master had it between the piston and the main cup. The new one had it at the very end near the output. Now it was there because I put it there. The gasket/washer fell out of the master when I was disassembling it and I THOUGHT, that was where it should go. So I could have been wrong. This would limit the final travel of the piston a bit at full compression and may have opened up the relief port the back side of the piston sooner than intended. Lets talk about that rubber gasket/washer. In the diagram in the factory repair manual, there is nothing that looks like that piece, but it exists in all three instances. The only thing that comes close is the part labeled "11-Piston Washer". Now the pick makes it look like a thin metal washer, but that could be deceiving. It also shows it between the main cup and the piston, where it was in the old master. So that could be an issue. Lastly, lets read the factory repair manual. Under minor adjustments it states "do not change the piston rod adjustment unless it is definitely known that the piston rubber cup does not uncover the relief port when the pedal is in the full released position. " This is what I was trying to determine on both of the master cylinders before disassembly. I could not see anything so I poked the .03" welding wire into each hole when it was fully released. The new one went through and was free. The old master went through, but would hit something metal a little ways in, I chalked that up to the spring. When I moved each master in a little, I felt rubber in both of them. This leaves me with a number of options: 1. The old master is showing some minor scaring on the bore. I can try and take that out with my brake hone, rebuild it just as diassembled, but with the new parts and try that. 2. I can reassemble the new master, but with the piston washer on the piston instead of the end of the bore. 3. I could swap the shorter spring to the new master and try both piston washer positions 4. I could leave all else the same but swap in the new valve on the new master since that was what we guessed might have issues. And on and on. At this point, I'll wait for Rich's assembly directions and try to match those. Then decide what permutations to try.

Dave72dt-If you look at the picture(blurry) I included on post #74, you can see the washer. Its the last thing to go on before the spring clip and sits between the back of the piston and the clip. I assume its there to give a wide area for the clip to push against. Its also in the same spot on my old master cylinder. Rich - I do not think I got any directions with the kit. I inteded to use the diagrams in the manual and those included on this thread. If you have the directions to post or send, that would be helpful. I am suspect of the relief valve as well, it had some lint that I cleaned off it, but I couldn't see anything inside. Thanks again for your patience with the adjustment tool. ledfootslim-At this point, I have a firm pedal. So the issue is the brakes not releasing. If I'm able to solve the brake release issue, I hope my pedal remains firm or its back to square one. When I have the master cylinders out, what is the best way to determine that I am getting the proper travel of the piston(piston length correct, spring length correct)? When static, if I stick the wire through the relief port and it goes through it should only hit spring correct?. If I see rubber through the relief port then the piston is too far forward. When compressed completely, I assume the secondary cup should not go past the inlet port or fluid would leak out the back. Anything else to look for? I truly appreciate all the help from all the forum members. Hopefully this will help someone else one day.

I did crack the line and the pressure was released. I'll be rebuilding my old master with the kit I received from Bernbaum and then swapping it in. We'll see what happens.

Dave72dt That's a very succinct way of thinking of it. I'll give it a try.. In a previous post plyroadking mentioned that the 1940 had a special length piston that is shorter than most that are included in rebuild kits. This may carry over to newly manufactured master cylinders. Does anyone have the correct length of the piston?

I pulled the floor and master cylinder cover. The relief port is the same, drags but goes through with a .03" welding wire. When I pump the brake pedal, fluid shoots out of the relief port on the compression stroke. The inlet port is open as well. My other master seems about the same as far as hole size. The brakes still have not released from yesterday (all 4).

I currently have 1" of pedal travel before the rod touches the piston. Also, all soft lines have been replaced with brand new lines. Thanks for the suggestions. I really hope its just a clog in the port. I used .03" welding wire to check it when it was out. It went through, but the hole was not smooth, the wire would hang up, I don't thinks its the cleanest casting. Does the relief port need to be a certain diameter to release?

I cleaned all those out when I had the master out. I'll open it up and try again. Just for clarification, this has all been done with the car up on jack stands and wheels off.

Well tonight was a setback. I was doing a final bleed and final adjustment of the minors. I went and pumped the pedal and now the brakes do not release. The pedal got stiffer after a few pumps. I went back after a half hour and the drums were still locked, although the pedal could be pumped up again. The obvious thing to check is the master cylinder. Are there any other not so obvious things to check? I was thinking weak release springs, but on all 4? Could my adjustment somehow be causing this? I have already had the brake gauge too long and need to get it back to Rich. So I want to try anything that may require that first. I've got other things going on the next couple weeks, so I am going to have to step away from it soon. And I probably need it at this point.

DJ194950, I did not notice those instructions. Its in a little note in smaller type on the instructions. That would have helped. I'm about 75% there. First let me thank Suntennis for coming over and lending me a hand on Friday. It was great to finally have a second opinion and to discuss how to set the shoes up. So I went through and readjusted all the brakes using a .007 feeler gauge. I set the shoes so that they were equal distance from the indicator on top and bottom and bottomed out on the center of the shoe. On the rear, I had to back off the minors a tad to get the drum to be able to turn. Then I went through and used the vaccum bleeder on all four corners. I've got 1" of free play in the pedal and then about 1/2" to 1" more before I get a firm pedal. I believe there is still air in the system and intend on hitting all four corners a couple more times. Then its time to drive it and see how it actually stops. I actually did not rebuild the master, just put it back together with the washer in it. Almost there....