Bmartin

First, yes I was being lazy and abusing my forum privileges. I should have searched for the answer. Its a good deal and I don't want to miss it. From some of the answers, I need to determine the final gear ratio of the overdrive tranny as well as the 3 gears, then calculate the rpm's. From that, decide what ratio I need. I'll work on it. Ideally, I would like to be able to run 65 MPH, up a steep grade, with the A/C on. That is probably a lot to ask for Flathead, but its at least a goal. I don't mind if its not a hot rod off the line. Its a cruiser not a racer.

Ok, I have front brakes now with the rears capped off. I redid the adjustment with a .007 feeler gauge and then used my friends vaccum bleeder. Now its on to the rears, going to readjust and bleed with the vaccum bleeder and see where I am at. Pedal has 1" free travel before hitting the piston and then its got about another 1/2" of movement before it gets firm. Now I have to wait till monday to rent the puller for the rears again.

This is a question for down the road. I've found an 8.25 rear axle out of a 93 Cherokee. I believe it hasthe 3.55 ratio. My long term plan is to replace the existing engine in my P9 (200ci) with at least a 230 or even a 260 and add some hot rodding parts. I would like to add a 3 speed overdrive transmission to that engine and then replace the rear axle with something with a taller ratio and modern drums. My goal is to add A/C to the car and still have good power on the highway, 65 MPH up the hills would be nice. Would the 3.55 ratio work well with that combo? It just popped up and I have not had time to research the answer yet. Thanks.

A question on use of the AMCO brake tool. I set the tool to the drum and then mount it on the hub. I set the shoes so that they drag a little on the tool indicator. When I go to put the drum back on, it won't fit. I then need to back off the minor adjusters to get the drum on. But I can't turn the adjusters back to where they were after the drum goes on. Should I be using some sort of feeler gauge to set the spacing from the adjuster indicator? Am I trying to get the adjuster too close to the actual drum diameter when taking that measurement? The original plymouth tool had the spacing built into it according to the manual, not sure if the Amco does

Here is a pic of the master disassembled for reference.

Well, I disassembled the master tonight. When I took it apart there were all the parts plus a seal that was all the way inside the master. Its not on the diagram in the book. It seems like it was all the way in front of the valve assembly. I was emptying the rest of the fluid out after diassembly and it fell out. Problem is, it has a lip on it and I don't know which way the lip goes - toward the piston rod or the outlet. Its a new master, as in not original. Wondering if anyone has taken apart a similar one and can comment on the orientation of the seal. My guess is it goes towards the outlet. Otherwise I can find nothing wrong with the master. The relief port was clear, there was a little bit of gunk inside on the valve, looked like lint. Otherwise pretty clean. I can not see anything that would make it not work. I tried to plug the front hard lines at the brake switch but the lines are not budging and even with a 7/16" flare nut wrench, they are starting to strip. So its leave them or replace the entire hard line. I'm going to clean everything up and reassemble next. I have a rebuild kit coming for my other master. I bench bled it and its now leaking from the rear seal, so its shot. I still have not found the source of the original problem.

Thanks again Soth. All soft lines have been replaced. I have not been able to find any leaks yet. I picked up a couple of plugs and caps so I can isolate front and rear for troubleshooting. I bench bled the old master, and want to swap it in just to see if it behaves the same. You are probably right in that I should have pulled it apart and inspected it first. I'll get back to it again this week and see what happens.

Ok, Adjusted the pedal to have 1" of travel, then rebled the brakes, did get a little more air out. Then set the minor adjusters to full on to be safe and still no pedal. Looked at all the connections and lines and no leaks that are obvious. I assume its something in the master. going to see if I can get the power bleeder today, may try that out first. Thanks again for all the help. EDIT: Question on master cylinders. Assuming this one is bad, what is the best route to go? For info, I still have the one that was taken out under the assumption it was bad(by mechanic, not me). Not sure it is original. Rebuild Existing or Old one: I never liked rebuild kits for brake parts on modern cars. Always had issues. Is this different with older models? Buy New: That is what this one was, not impressed. It seems all the new ones are cheap China crap, so that does not seem the best choice. Resleeve my olde one: I have read of services that will sleeve the master and rebuild it. Is it best to have the company sleeve and rebuild or just sleeve and I rebuild myself. Try and locate a NOS replacement: seems difficult, but possible. Replace with Dual master from Butchs Cool Stuff knowing that someday I will go Disc: Expensive, but will get spent eventually. Does this work well with stock drums?

I had to adjust the rod about an inch or so to get a good pedal, but at that point the brakes all locked on and would not release. I assume that means I was blocking the inlet port from Soth's diagram. I had to adjust it back out quite a bit to get the rear passenger drum to fully release, not sure if that means anything. The others released earlier. Its looking like pulling the master is going to be required. Anything else to try before that? This real time feedback is extremely helpful!

Again, thanks for the help guys. I have pulled the pan and taken the cover of the master to access the relief port. I stuck a piece of welding wire in there, it went in and is hitting what feels to be something rubbery. I assume this is the piston cup? I thought I read that, if adjusted properly, the wire would just go through and not hit anything. If that is the case, do I adjust the minor adjusters at the wheel to try and solve that or adjust the piston rod?

soth122003 - thanks again. Your post is the one I reread. I'll have to figure out how to pull the floor plan to do this, can't see a darn thing from the engine bay. I've also been thinking on this a little more. I know that the previous mechanic adjusted the new master cylinder to get the brakes correct. I know that pedal travel is partially set by the minor adjusters. So when I messed with the minor adjusters, that changed pedal travel and may have misaligned the master cylinder with respect to the relief port. Now I need to do some research and find out the details of adjusting the push rod on the master. Maybe I just go by free travel, I'm sure there are a bunch of threads on here.

Ok, I replaced the front wheel cylinders and shoes. Performed a major adjustment with the AMMCO tool on all four wheels, and set the minor adjustment with a healthy amount of drag to be safe. I also replaced all soft lines and one hard line that was twisted. I bled the system for about an hour and did not see any more bubbles coming out. Unfortunately, I still have a soft pedal. My next thought is the master cylinder. Its only got about 300 miles on it. Are there any misadjustments of the master that could cause a soft pedal? I usually read about a blocked return port and how it causes the brakes to drag. I'll measure the pedal travel in the morning and may try locking down all four wheels with the minor adjusters as a test. Although the master is new, that's no guarantee its not bad. May have to yank it for an inspection. EDIT: Just went back and read thru the posts again. I'm going to try and clear out the relief port on the master, see what that does. Crossing my fingers. I also have a friend who will lend me a power bleader. I'll try that as well.

Thanks!

Have not seen an answer to the rear castle nut torque. Since this came up in the search, figured I'd bump this back up. I cannot find any torque specs for the rear of my 1940 Plymouth hub castle nuts. Does anyone know the spec? Also, what is the best method to use to keep the wheel from spinning when applying the torque? Thanks.

Ha! Thats the same machine the guy used to arc mine today. His had been repainted a different color blue, worked real nice. I paid $25 for four shoes.

Yup, got it done today. Cool old school hot rodder with a garage machine shop. Had an AMMCO brake arcing tool.

Well, that makes me feel a little better. Since this is my first classic, I have been trying to follow the manual as close as possible. I'll keep this in mind in the future. For now, I have found someone to arc the brake shoes and will be dropping them off tomorrow. I think I missed the other thread because I searched for 'arch' instead of 'arc'.

Well, that is disappointing. I'll look for someone that can grind the shoes this week. Thanks again for the help. The factory manual is not very detailed on this aspect, with only a mention of ensuring that the shoes are concentric. On a side note, I thought working on a classic car would involve a lot of extra work, but involve only basic tools. It seems that classic cars have more 'special' tools than anything in the modern era. I guess that makes sense, the designs improved to not need the special tools and make repair easier. Its frustrating to try and DIY this stuff sometimes. I need to work on the weekend and wrench on the weekdays when more resources are available.

I am making the major brake adjustment with the AMCO tool (thx Rich). The issue I am having is that the shoe is hitting the gauge in the middle of the shoe. So that I can't go back and forth from top to bottom to make the adjustment. Either I am doing something wrong or the shoes are not perfectly round. Shoes are most likely the culprit since they are new replacements, most likely from China. So what is the best way to deal with this? Do I lean towards getting the top of the shoe in adjustment or more towards the bottom? Or just stick with getting the middle close? All help is appreciated.

There was no discernible difference in the thread length of the parts I received. I swapped them out and everything looked good.

Thanks guys, I understand the way it works and that the left and right are different. The issue is that I have 4 Tie Rod Ends, two inner and two outer. One for each end of each Tie Rod. I think I am reading that they are the same, both inner and outer for the Right side ( from parts list). But the left side is a little confusing and makes it sound like there are two different part numbers for inner and outer. Just want to confirm they are the same. The R stands for both Right hand side and Right hand thread I believe. At least the one marked R went in properly.

I ordered replacement tie rod ends from Bernbaum, both inner and outer. Well, they came in a bag with no markings, no part numbers on the parts except for R and L. They look ALMOST exactly the same. Only diference is a slightlyt longer thread on one. So are these the same part? Also, does the R and L stand for thread type or side of vehicle? Thanks for the help, Bernbaum is closed already and I'm in the garage.

I purchased everything new from Bernbaum (shoes, Cylinders, soft lines). I assume they are the China made ones. The leak was the reason to replace, I've never had luck with rebuild kits so I steer away from those. I'm not sure the cylinders that were in there were original. The reason I was messing with them was that I lost pedal and could not figure out why, no leaks found. So I'm hoping the replacement parts along with the major adjustment get them to come back. From the other threads I've read, I'll probably be troubleshooting for a while.

When I was trying to do a major adjustment using the DIY method, I was manuevering the shoe around, this misaligned the piston in the cylinder and brake fluid shot out. At that point I decided to replace the cylinders, shoes, and soft lines. With the tool, this may have kept the piston in alignment.

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to hit a few parts stores tomorrow and see if I can find them. Since I'm new at this, following the manual is the best bet. If I can't find them, then I'll push forward without them. Since I'm replacing the cylinders, they won't have any fluid in them to displace the piston. Interestingly, this tool may have prevented me from having to do the brake job in the first place.