James_Douglas

I had Doffman brass plugs blow out on my nice new rebuilt engine a few years back. I purchased as box of plugs directly from them. The brass plugs turned out to be a couple of thousands SMALLER in OD that the steel ones. I would recommend that anyone only use the steel versions. Best, James

Hello (We tend to use real names here by the way), First off, fluid drive refers to the fluid coupling which has nothing to do with the transmission. You can have Fluid drive with a M6 4 speed semi-automatic or you can have fluid drive with a 3-speed stick. Which one do you have ? In either case, 80/90W is not what my books show as the recommended oil. It should be 10W engine oil. Also, never use 80/90W gear lubricant as the Hypoid additives (Extreme Pressure) will destroy any bronze parts over time and is not to be used. Drain the thing and put in some 10W engine oil. One thing I would do is to drain the oil thats in it, full it with some 10W, manually put it in gear before starting it, jack the *** end up, then start it. Run it for 15 minutes, in 3rd gear to let the pump circulate the 10W. Shut it down, drain it while hot, refill it and then try it again. The syncro's may have gotten stuck if it has such low mileage. Best, James

Anyone out there have an extra thin water pump pulley that is the same diameter as the stock think one...around 5.25 inch ? Thanks, James

The input shaft of the Chrysler 8 is MUCH larger than the six. The pilot bushing and roller bearing are larger as well. If you put in a six input shaft into and eight fluid coupling the driver in the fluid coupling would wallow around. It may hit the housing and/or it could vibrate like hell. You would have noticed that the transmission input shat "fell" into place without any pressure at all. So I doubt that is the problem. The second thing I would suggest is to send a set of motor mounts to Steele to be re-vulcanized. His mounts came back much better than a NOS set I had been using. Make sure that the engine to frame bolts on the front are as far back in the holes as possible. I think that it is possible that I had a vibration issue that had the mount at a slight angle (base forward a bit) and the frame mount (the big "U") rubbed the block side mount. On the subject of fluid, please read this post: http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=14203&highlight=fluid+drive and this post: http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=14433&highlight=mobile Best, James

In general I agree with Don. However, if all the tires are taken off the rims they are sandblasted, you will get a good sense if they are in bad shape. If they are in good shape, it is likely that the rivets have stretched a bit and that is the problem. If however you ever are thinking of adding disks to the front then new rims will be necessary. Best, James

This is but a long line of similar events that I have been gripping about for the last 20 years. In the future say 500 years from now people will equate the late 20th Century wholesale destruction of the industrial age documentation as the modern equivalent of the burning of the ancient library at Alexandria. NASA cannot find the blueprints to the lunar module and had to go to the Smithsonian with tape measures in hand. After the turret blow up on the battleship 20 some years back they realized that they did not have the technical knowledge make that large of a cannon barrel anymore. All the records to rebuild most of the analog testing equipment for most all industries has been trashed as companies were gobbled up in the 1970's to the 1990's. Heck, even Chrysler Historical when I called them 10 years ago and wanted the exact specification on Fluid Drive Fluid could not fine any documentation. This is just the most visible of a long line of technical destruction that has been going on for years. What a shame. James

Pete, Th centers are hot riveted to the outer on the stock rims. Pull off the rim, remove the tire and have a welding shop put some 2" long spot welds on the inside of the rim where the center meats the outer. That will most likely solve the problem. James

Looks interesting, however, the shroud is supposed to allow the fan to pull air from all corners of the radiator. I know on mine that if I let it sit and idle for 30 minutes here in the city (60F) that you can put your hand on the radiator and feel the cool area where the fan circle is and the rest of the radiator is warm/hot. Thanks for thinking of me ! James

What battery are you using ? James

Next time I go via El Portal!

Sondra and I took the '47 to see a friend in Clovis, CA which is just outside of Fresno. We then went into Yosemite via Fish Camp, across into Yosemite Valley, then took highway 120 out to the North West. It was a 100F plus day out on the run through Yosemite. The engine temp went up to about 190F most of the day. We did get stopped in the Valley Floor at one point with someone double parked and inched along at 10 MPH. The engine went to 200 and started moving up just as the traffic cleared and I was able to move air over the thing. The real test was when we did not head out via El Portal and instead headed out to the NW on highway 120. I had forgotten how steep that road is. We started up the mountain and the temp went up with it. The engine hit 200F plus a needle width. Call it 204F or there about. We were very lucky that there was very little traffic on this road (no wonder)and we did not have to stop in any traffic. We did have to pull out a few times to let the speed racers go by. The pull outs on this road are far and few between. As we climbed I kept hoping that the temperature would cool with altitude before the engine got to the boiling point. The top of the pass is 6200 feet and water boiling point goes DOWN 1 degree for every 500 above sea level. In theory I was above the boiling point. At 6200 feet the boiling point of water is 200.5F. I do have a bottle of water wetter in the engine and it may have helped as far as boiling point goes. The car survived as did we---both very hot. It is idling just a tad rough now back home. I will check the plugs to see what they look like. Although the engine is new (5000K), I did use about 1/2 quart of oil over the 500 miles. I did run it very hard up the mountain passes. I will at some point soon make a fan shroud for slow running and I am going to put on a smaller pulley on the fan/pump. All in all, I would say the old girl ran OK for her age. By the way, Sondra and I looked grand pulling up at the Ahwahnee Hotel in the Desoto Suburban loaded with our vintage Oshkosh Chief Luggage. People went nuts like we have just come out of a time machine. Which of course all of us do on this forum! Best, James

Greg, I swapped in the original bypass (the entire water neck) just to make sure that it made no difference. It did not. I am suspecting that the water pump is turning slower with my current pulley than the wide belt original. I need to dig through a bunch of boxes to find the wide belt one that was on the car and check the size. A one inch smaller pulley can add 150 RPM to the pump/fan speed. I doubt that a few extra RPM will cause pump cavitation, put it could pull a lot more air at idle. Having the core sealed and running anti-freeze/boil would allow an operational reserve. I am only hesitant as I have read about head gasket sealing issues on the flatheads with increased water pressure. ...James

The only thing to be aware of is that the Long Wheel Base (LWB -139.5") cars did use a different chassis. Everything is different on these chassis and they only shared parts with the largest Chrysler Straight 8. The Desoto Suburban and some of the Dodge/Plymouth limousines fall into this category. My '47 Desoto Suburban has this chassis and it stayed the same until 1954. As long as it is a regular sedan, parts are easy. Best, James

Does any know what the size of the crankshaft pulley's are and the size of the water pump pulley ? As close as I can tell with them on the engine my crankshaft pulley is about 5.25 inch and the water pump pulley is 6.75 inch. With the larger water pump pulley the shaft speed on the pump is about 370 RPM if I did the math correct. I seem to think that my older wider pulley on the water pump was smaller than the thinner V on the current pulley. James

Dave, My engine has less than 10K on it. When it was taken down for rebuilding all plugs and the distribution tube were removed. The engine was taken to an acid dip house and the block was dipped to make sure it was as clean as possible. It was then tanked again at the engine shop. A new distribution tube was put in. A new water pump has been put in. The radiator was re-cored. The engine is not running lean. The oil pressure is at 40 PSI. The engine temperature runs fine until the ambient temperature hits about 90 Degrees. At that point, for every 1 degree the ambient goes up, the engine goes up about 1 degree. So that on a 100 degree day, at running speed, the engine seems to hit about 190. The slow speed heating, below 24 MPH, in stop and go driving is no doubt due to the need of a shroud and/or a smaller pulley to move the fan a little faster. The running speed increase, tells me that the reserve capacity is just not there or the engine would not go over 180. In my case the compression ratio was raised beyond the factory specifications and that can contribute to more heat output. It is possible that the inside of the engine block is not as clean as necessary. However, given all the steps during the rebuild to clean the inside of the block, I doubt it. Acid dipping should have removed more stuff that just about any other method. When it got back, I also ran a hose in it and ran steel rods everyplace I could to flush it. Given that a number of people that have noted cooling issues, I do think that cooling issues may be because of a lack of reserve capacity. Reserve capacity is not only to deal with short term increases in engine heat out put, but also long term issues like dirty blocks. If you read the link I posted about the man who purchased a new 1952 Desoto and ran it across the US with a trailer, he had cooling issues from day one when the car was new. Pulling a trailer is also a reserve capacity design issues. If the original designers cut the circulation tolerances so close that an acid dipped block is not clean enough to cool properly, then I would consider that a design defect as far as longevity is concerned. I will keep at it and see what I can do to have a cooling cycle that works as well as yours. I hope that people do keep chiming in with ideas. James

If you read my last thread, you can see that I had some cooling issues. Sondra and I spent three days in the Central Valley of California, away from our cool San Francisco, and the car performed well with some exceptions. I drained the car and put fresh water in it, I also added a bottle of "Water Wetter", and I put in a new thermostat. It was about 100 to 105 degrees most of the trip between 11AM and 3PM. One the interstate at between 60-70 MPH the car ran at about 180-190 degrees. In town as long as I maintained a constant 25 MPH it hovered at around 190 degrees. However, if we started driving in residential areas with stop signs every couple of blocks the car went to 200-205 degrees and I got concerned about over heating. It appears to me that the car just does not have either enough reserve cooling capacity to see the car over any "heat humps" in slow around town use or on very long hill pulls on very hot days AND/OR not enough wind is being pulled over the radiator at slow speeds. For the issue of reserve cooling capacity, I will have to talk to the radiator folks about that. As to the fan speed, I am going to look at making a smaller pulley to speed up the fan at low RPM. We have a "old school" pump re-builder in the area that does industrial pumps and he said he has a set of pump bearings that he can install and that with a flathead and a small pulley I would not be able to hurt it. I am also going to have a fan shroud made. Best, James PS, the car ran fine but we melted. Did anyone ever make a set of templates for mounting an A/C compressor on our flatheads ?

Anyone have a NAPA part number ? James

With respect... I still say for a street car that not using a vacuum advance is a bad idea. http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/howto/vac.htm Trucks use gearing to accelerate and then run at a constant speed. That is why they had non-vacuum advance distributors. Saying that because trucks used non-vacuum it is optimum to use them on cars is mixing apples and oranges. James

Other than trial and error with a set-test drive-ping-redo approach...the only way to properly match a distributor curve to an engine is to have a distributor machine AND a chassis dyno. The idea of course being able to have the maximum advance across all RPM and max loading conditions just short of detonation. I would attack the problem a little different. I talked with someone a very long time ago that was running those carburetors and ran into the same issue. He said an "old timer" showed him were to drill into the carburetor (90 degrees to the venturi) and installed a brass tube. He soldered it in as I remember. The tube he said was welded closed on the venturi end and a small hole drilled that was the same size as some other 1bbl that had a vacuum port. The tube was ground flush to the venturi wall to match the venturi. It would be a fair amount of work, but if you can find or identify that location, you can have your cake and eat it as well. James

Sorry Flex -A-Lite: http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/400-series-economy.html At high RPM all fans just get in the way as the ram air going down the road is doing all the work. This fan is very light and has the largest pitch of any flan they make so it pulls more air at idle. Obviously in my case...still not enough. James

Don, Sounds like it may be that this is the temperature curve I will have to live with. Given that the car rarely sees high ambient temperatures, I guess I get a little unnerved when the temperature starts climbing. James

The belt is set to the proper tension. The light flex-o-lite fan is not a classic flex fan. It is really their cheep replacement fan. However, since it is 20% of the weight of the stock 4 blade fan, it uses less power and is easier on the water pump bearing. It also does not flex much and it has a more radical pitch for more air flow at low RPM than the stock fan. It does pull more air than the stock fan at idle. James

Hi All, Although heat is rarely a problem in and around the San Francisco bay...I am having problems with the Desoto running hot when I am in stop and go traffic in the outer, and hotter, areas of Northern California. Once at freeway speeds it runs at 180 unless I am pulling a long uphill grade and then it runs up to about 190-200. It drops back as soon as I crest the grade. Here are the answers to the common questions: 1. The engine is rebuilt and well broken in. 2. The block was acid dipped prior to the machine shop getting it to make sure that the inside was very clean. 3.A new water distribution tube was installed. 4.The thermostat is working fine. 5.The bypass is working fine. 6.A new radiator, supposedly high efficiency, was installed. 7.A flex-o-lite light weight fan with a stronger low RPM pitch is installed. 8. No shroud. 9.Tried an electric fan as a stand along and as a addition to a standard one. 10. The carburetor is not running lean. 11. The advance is TDC. Can anyone shed any light on my cooling issue? Thanks, James

http://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html

Hi All, This is an FYI for anyone thinking about fixing up an old exhaust manifold that has the internal heat tube that feeds a hot air choke on the carter (or other) carburetors. Most local hardware stores have short sections of 3/8 inch stainless steel tube. If you purchase (they may have to order it) a METRIC drill bit of 9.50MM it is .001 smaller than 3/8". After you press (or pound) out the original tube if you drill it out using that 9.5MM drill bit, you can then hammer (or press) in the 3/8 tube. Since the cast iron will expand more than the stainless when it gets hot...it should seal up well. The original pipe was cold rolled steel and was was pressed in. I still have to make a connector to connect it the stainless pipe to the pipe heading up to the carburetor, but I may just slit a 2" long copper tube and use that with a couple of little hose clamps or pulled tight stainless wire. Best, James