moparmonkey

Dan has a good point about the frame swap. I suppose it depends on what you're planning from the race side of things, and how much work you want to do. A frame swap with a Dakota would be a good way to get modern suspension and a 318 or 360, although it's probably a little more involved than just swapping a 318/360 into your stock frame. The engine swap will require new engine and transmission mounts, and a frame swap will require new body mounts. But the frame swap will also come with a lot of "fitting" issues, you'll be doing a lot of measuring and assembly/disassembly in order to get the body in the right place and everything lined up properly. Probably not much harder as far as the parts that will have to be fabricated, but more time consuming to get it all to fit right.

Welcome! I agree with whats above. If you're used to modern cars or power steering, the steering on these old trucks will seem really difficult when its sitting still even if all the parts are working properly. Same goes for braking, its an old manual brake set up with drums, so even with everything working properly it won't stop like anything modern. But that's not to say it shouldn't stop or steer, just that if you're only reference is new stuff you may have to lower your expectations a little. Before I ordered anything, I'd put the front end up on jacks, get a grease gun and lubricate all the steering and suspension joints. Then I'd check the steering again and see if there was any play in it while it was still up in the air. As far as the brakes go, you're going to have to pull the drums and inspect everything. Check for pad wear and leaks. If that looks good I'd flush the system with new fluid until it runs out of the wheel cylinders relatively clean. If it hasn't been done in awhile (or ever), the brake fluid will probably look like chocolate milk when you start draining the system.

Sounds like a great project! Definitely keep it all Mopar. The 318 swap is fairly straightforward, and has been done more than a few times. I'm sure someone that's done it will chime in. Does require a little fabrication work, but no more than putting any other engine in. As far as street/race, I'll say this. 318's are great engines and in street-able trim can make up to around 400 hp if built properly. But, if you don't already have an engine, a 360 would probably be an even better choice. The truck will move better with the additional torque, the swap is basically the same, and as always, there's no replacement for displacement. Parts can be found for both 318's and 360's pretty easily. They may not have quite as complete a range of selection as other makes, but there's more than enough options to build a very strong engine. I'm in the final stages of a 340 build for a '72 Challenger. Parts are little harder to find for the 340's (they only made them for 6 years), and I still didn't have any real issues coming up with an engine that should push 450 hp. I wouldn't look for a 340 or anything, they're a ton more expensive since all the musclecar guys want them, I'm just using it as an example of what's possible from a build perspective. Either a 318 or a 360 would be a great choice, it just depends on what you're planning on the "race" side of things. Good luck with the project!

The top arrow definitely looks like the coolant drain plug, that's exactly where mine is on my '53. The bottom one looks to be an oil line as mentioned, although I don't have one there either.

Cosmoline. Lasts forever, will keep everything from rusting, and is what most of these parts were packed in originally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmoline

Interesting! Is there a way to convert a bypass system to a full flow system? I know some of the Desoto blocks had a full flow system...

Well, so far I've managed to get the carb pretty well cleaned up, and everything is ready to go to pull the head except for the head bolts themselves. They're soaking in some Aero-Kroil until tomorrow hopefully. On the bright side, although the radiator is empty, the block is full of what looks to be brand new antifreeze. And I'll confirm it when I pull the head, but I think someone filled this engine with some kind of oil/kerosene mix before it was stored. The intake manifold has about a half inch of some kind of oil mix in it, looks like oil but thinner, smells kinda like varnish. Initially I thought the smell was just old gas, but that's definitely not what's in the intake. And the dipstick reads overfilled, so I'm thinking someone was trying to preserve the engine while it was sitting. Hopefully that works in my favor. Waiting on my carb kit. I bought a NOS engine gasket set off eBay for cheap, although the head gasket I'm not so sure about. Looks like steel with a composition center. I guess I was thinking copper, or maybe a Fel-Pro. Thoughts?

Yeah I wasn't even looking for a project, I have a few too many as it is. But I was really impressed with the condition of the truck, and its hard to go wrong for $500. I've seen other pilothouse trucks listed in my area, but most that are close to this condition are about twice as much money. Which still isn't bad, but its enough to keep me from picking up yet another project. Merle & Ed- Thanks for the info! I though these used studs and nuts like the old ones did (at least, that's what's in my '37 218, but that's a 25" block). Found the Chevy part #'s, actually found the exact part at Summit Racing. In case anyone is looking, they're Pioneer Automotive PG-362-25, OEM replacement bolts. 3" under head length, 7/16"-20 RH. $25 for 25 of them! In addition to not having the proper shoulder or undercut, the grade 8 bolts will not have the right "stretch" to give the proper clamping force. I'm not saying that the engine won't work, but the actual clamping force likely won't be correct, and that can lead to blown head gaskets or over-torqued threads, depending on which way it goes.

So, something about this engine has been bugging me since I brought it home. Something just doesn't look right about it. Haven't been able to figure it out. Anyway, I pulled the carb today and am cleaning it up, next step is to pull the head so I can see what I've got before I try to fire this thing. And when I was looking through the manual it dawned on me. Cylinder head nuts. Someone replaced the studs and nuts with bolts. And, since they're marked "KS" and are the grade 8 variety, I'm guessing they aren't intended for their current purpose. So, outside of the head not having the correct clamping force, does anyone see any ongoing problems from this? I'm guessing it will make it harder for me to pull the head, since I have to worry about the threads in the block. And does anyone know where I might get head studs for a 218?

The HAMB would be a good place to post it, it gets A LOT more traffic and there's a decent number of people over there interested in the pilot house trucks. Just be warned, go to the "introduction" section and post an intro with a little information about yourself before you post the truck in the for sale section. You'll get much better responses than if you don't do that, they're kind of picky over at the HAMB about things like that. It's entirely possible that without a proper introduction your "for sale" thread will be deleted if its your only post over there.

So far your description seems pretty good, although I'd bet it has a 6 cylinder engine unless something has been changed, since they didn't come with 4 cylinders. Craigslist would be a good option, I'd just post it in the "Autos for sale" section. Although you should also post it here. There is a trucks for sale section on this board and I'd bet there's a few members in NC that might be interested. http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/forumdisplay.php?f=13 Plus, you can look at some of the other trucks listed to get a better ball park for the asking price. Pictures would be the big thing, it will be hard to sell without them. Also, it's hard to say how much its worth without them. But keep in mind as scrap it would only be worth a couple hundred dollars at most. I bought this truck just over a week ago, not running but complete for $500. I thought it was a pretty good deal, since the engine still turns over and I think I can get it running without a rebuild. If your description is accurate, I'd say its worth at least that, certainly a few hundred more than you'd get in scrap. And even if you can only get the same as the scrap price, it'd be nice to know it went somewhere useful, instead of being melted down and sent overseas to come back as a Kia or something.

I noticed that when I went onto Rock Auto. The only thing they list for a B4B is a manual. But they list all kinds of stuff for the D series trucks. And yet they list parts for 218-6 equipped cars. Not sure what the solution is at the parts store other than going to one where they know how to look for old parts (my local Riebes is great, the parts people actually know how to find stuff). Online I just look for similarly equipped vehicles. The flathead 6's were around until 1960, so that may help for engine parts.

Thanks guys! I scoured my B-series restorer's guide as well and couldn't find anything other than the pricing. I kinda figured that it wasn't a super popular option, although I knew just based on the number of pictures I found on the 'net that they weren't nearly as rare as a truck-o-matic or Spring Special. My truck seems to have a strange mix of options. It's a Custom Cab, but still has the low-side bed (even though it seems the high sides were more popular). It has Fluid drive, but a 3 speed transmission. And it has a heater and an ash tray, although I'm not sure those were factory. The ash tray slides under the bottom of the dash under the gauge cluster on the driver's side, and the heater is a "Red Head", not the Mopar truck master heater. Although the ash tray does have a matching knob on it. Maybe they were dealer installed? It is fun trying to figure all this out, maybe that's why I have so many projects...

As an Aerospace engineer I've certainly known my share of engineers whose grasp of common sense was seriously lacking compared to their engineering ability, and even more that would have made much better engineers if they had the slightest idea about production or actually working on their designs into the real world. But I think the engineering talk has derailed my thread a bit here, so I was wondering if we could get back on topic? I'm really pretty curious about how many of these fluid-drive trucks were made. I know that Dodge didn't keep production info on options, so I realize there isn't any actual production numbers to be had. I haven't seen a ton of these trucks, so I was wondering if some of the "experts" could comment on just what they've seen. I mean, are we talking 50% of the B2-B4 trucks? Less, more? Are they super difficult to find, or just a little more challenging than the Pilot House trucks in general? Thanks guys!

The "Dodge B-Series Trucks" book by Don Bunn has the production number's that were kept by the factory. There was just a re-print of this book, I'd highly recommend getting it while there are still copies available. Before the reprint, they were selling for around $200 on eBay. Now they're $50 from Enthusiast Books. Link and more info in this thread here... http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=23612 I know I just got my reprinted copy, took about a week. As for 1952 B3B's, it looks like they only kept records for the model. So, the numbers include 1951 B3B's as well as 1952 B3B's. Dodge didn't split it down into panels or pickups, just by rating. Total production for 1/2 ton B3B's was 118,094, and total production for 3/4 ton B3B's was 27,294. Anyway, that info, plus A LOT of other production #'s, serial number info, extra equipment options, and just about everything you wanted to know about B-series trucks is in the book. If you're interested in production info, I'd say its a must have. And I'm not trying to sell these things (I swear, really!!!). I have no affiliation with Enthusiast other than having bought a reprinted book. I already had several Dodge truck history books, and they really only scratch the surface of the B-series book.

Awesome info guys! I was still kinda wondering, how rare are the fluid drive trucks? They don't seem "super rare" (like a Spring Special or Truck-o-matic) but are there any estimates on how many trucks actually had the option? I know Dodge didn't really track options like that, but just from what you guys have seen what would you say as far as a ballpark guess? Less than half of the B2-B4's? More? Also, I put a "want ad" in the parts wanted section for the emblems. Anybody got a spare set they wouldn't mine parting with?

I just kinda stumbled onto this one, I didn't even know it was a fluid drive until I got it home and started to take a look at things. Definitely seems like a cool piece to have except for the issue with the lack of a mechanical coupling.

Yeah! Not all of us are that bad. But from an engineering standpoint, as long as the brake works right? Common sense does get lost sometimes. Now, I see that the fluid drives were standard on a lot of Dodge cars in this era. Did a lot of the trucks have this option? Or is finding those badges going to be a big quest?

Thanks Merle! Awesome write up! I did a little reading last night too, seems like a pretty cool feature. I'll have to take a look at it along with everything else before I try to get this truck running. Going to have to go through all the fuel and electrical gear first and see if I can even get it to run, followed by the brakes and everything else before I try to actually drive it. I'll make sure I check out the parking brake well, I saw while I was reading that because of the fluid drive leaving the truck in gear won't stop it from rolling. Thanks for the reminder though! It looks like the larger badges were on my truck, based on the fade mark on the hood. I guess I'll have to keep my eyes open for a pair.

Sweet!!! Is the fluid drive a rare option? I mean, I've heard of it before and I've seen a few trucks on the 'net with it, but it doesn't seem like there's a ton of them. And I suppose the real question is, are they hard to service? I'm guessing its not something I can get parts for easily. And I don't imagine I'll be finding any of those hood badges anytime soon either...

Makes sense! Here's a couple of pictures. Seems like its about 13 1/2" long, but that's from the top and its hard to see where the front of the tape is at. From the top From below

Ok, so I finally took possession of my new to me '53 B4B. I believe I'm the third owner, it was originally purchased by a farmer as a work truck. When he passed a few years ago the family sold it, but no real work was done by the second owner. Hasn't run "in years", but the engine still turns. Supposedly had "electrical problems", and based on the wire harness I can see why. Anyway, pretty nice, complete truck. Looks to be a Custom cab, has the wing vents and dome light but no quarter windows. Low-side bed, 3 on the tree, T306 engine. All but one of the original hubcaps, and the spare tire too! Built in San Leandro. I did have a question, is there any way to tell from the outside if you have a fluid-drive transmission? I ask because the truck has the "shadows" on the hood below the side trim that would indicate there was an additional tag below the standard "Dodge" lettering. I looked underneath, seems to be a regular looking 3 speed (Not an M6). Do I just have to wait until I can get it running and see if it stalls when I don't push in the clutch at a stop?

There are a few aftermarket speed parts currently produced, Edgy makes a 2 carb intake and a cylinder head. Good stuff. http://www.edgyspeedshop.com/index2.html There are also some old speed parts available, split exhausts, intakes and heads. But they can be hard to find. The nice thing about a flathead 6 is that intakes and exhausts are pretty easy to fabricate if you've got some welding skills, headers would be pretty straightforward. That's most of the stuff I've seen. The compression ration of the 218/230 engines was in the 7:1 range, so there's more power to be had from compression (ie, heads or head work). But if you're going to hop one up, make sure you spend some time improving the oiling system. I'm not familiar with specific upgrades, but I do know these old flatheads do not like to spend much time at higher rpm's without starving for oil.

The DPETCA Pilot House Knowledge page has a bunch of manuals available for download. http://www.dodgepilothouseclub.org/know/know.htm The front axle section for a B4B should be the same and have what you need, its here... http://www.dodgepilothouseclub.org/know/B4_manual/manual.htm

Thanks Dave! Actually, I've seen Bud's truck over on the HAMB, he's got a pretty extensive build thread over there too. The crown work he did is pretty cool, although, I actually like the look of the big windshield. Just, maybe not quite as big from the factory. Although its really growing on me, my "new" truck is going to stay stock. Looking at the pictures of your truck it seems like the chop is pretty close to the same on our trucks, based on the size of the windshield. I don't think I'd chop mine any more than it is, I've seen a couple Pilot Houses with 5-6" chops and I have to agree with you, the proportions change a lot. The bed gets to looking too long, and although that's easy enough to fix the front end is too big to chop them much more than 4" without having to do a lot of work to get things to look right.