Art Bailey

I did that...it's a flat disc.

I just went out and checked again, and you're right. My eyes are miserable. I guess I'm leery of new aftermarket stuff---curious to know if anyone's had problems with this design.

Hi Folks, I'm rebuilding my B&B carb with a kit from Bernbaum, which is apparently supplied by Daytona. I almost thought that they didn't supply a new float needle valve, because it didn't look like one (see attached pic), but I realized it's a new design. Is there any reason not to trust this new kind of valve? I haven't rebuilt a carb in 30 years, and have never seen this kind of valve. The thing that bugs me is that the seat is still a v-shaped tapered hole, and you're just depending on this little dot of rubber to seal, which isn't held in with any kind of adhesive. Thanks! -Art

Mike's had the float retainer spring that was disintegrated on both my parts carb, and the carb I'm rebuilding. I also see he has a couple springs that were toast on my parts carb, and a little questionable on the rebuild. Good resource.

I like those! I'd probably want to countersink some all-thread in the 6 spots that the beams contact each other, plus Gorilla glue. Wish I had seen this before I opened my wallet for the Gray stands...

When I was a kid, my old man taught me that the jack stands went under the two arms of the enormous hydraulic bumper jack we had, which lived outside year round, and needed about 15 pumps before the jack even moved. They're called "jack stands", right? I spent hundreds of hours under big old cars with this set up, and I'm sure I used up all 9 of my lives doing this, and other ill advised things. I'm investing in a set of non-ratchet, 7 ton Gray jack stands that cost nearly a third as much as the car I bought. Ratchet style jack stands give me the willies. The baby monitor idea is great, I'm definitely getting those. Another good trick I've read is to toss the tires and rims from the car under the frame, so at least there's another obstacle for it to clear before it reaches your skull. -Art

It seems that my key fits the glove box lock ok--I haven't gotten deeper into it other than sticking it into the lock, so you may be right.

You might try what vintage6t suggests, get a bunch of keyblanks on ebay for your '51 lock (they're cheap), measure the pins with a vernier caliper, and go at it with a tiny file.

I thought about that, but it seemed like it would take more of an artist's touch, and didn't think I could pull it off. I'm just a caveman

Right, that's what I did at first---I eliminated two of the five that kept the lock from turning, but I couldn't let myself leave it that way. I had even bought some brass rod from McMaster Carr to try to make pins from scratch, so I could have all five tumblers functioning, but I think I'm going to let it be, and move on to the mile-long grocery list of stuff to do in order to get this thing roadworthy.

When shopping for my project car, the things that the cars in my price range had in common was no title, and no keys. The car I settled on, a '47 Desoto Custom, had no title, but fortunately, an ignition key. There's plenty of other things to keep me busy with this beast, but I decided to do a little hunting on ebay for lock sets. For three locks and keys, it'd be around two hundred bucks. I hated the idea of chucking perfectly good locks, and cheap b______d that I am, I hated the thought of spending money. I decided to learn enough about pin tumbler locks to see if I could finagle a key for my existing locks. Youtube to the rescue (forgive the non-Mopar content): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icq_D0v8RF0 ...and a little pin tumbler theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smIdInCQ-kU I pulled my doorlock, and popped off the cover like the guy in the video. Sure enough, 5 springs, and 5 pin tumblers. I took the springs and pins out carefully, and put them in a muffin tin, numbered 1-5. I wondered if maybe DeSoto had 5 standard sizes of pin sets, and maybe they mixed them around for different key codes. Well, it turned out that my lock was like a lame internet password...1, 4 and 5 matched the igniton key, and 2 and 3 were the wild card. I could have left it this way, but I'm a little obsessive. I tried every combo of the pins I had in positions 2 and 3. No dice. Then, I discovered that the pins from position 1 worked in position 2! That would at least give me 4 out of 5 tumblers. I had two sets of leftover pins that were longer than the ones in position one, so I went about shortening them to match pins #1 as well as I could, using a DMT diamond sharpening stone to remove material. I mic'ed the pins from position 1, held them in an engineer's vice, and slowly and carefully removed material from the points where they meet, and made them as close to the same size as tumbler pin 1 as I could. Very few strokes were necessary to remove a lot of material---the pins are soft brass. Success! My ignition key now opens the door, and I'll re-pin the trunk, driver's side door, and glove box to work on the ignition key, as well. Hopefully this helps out someone with a keyless car like me. Can't help you with the title, sorry. -Art

I'm really glad this topic came up today. I have two Carter BBs, one that was on the engine of my '47 Desoto, and the other that was probably original to the car, that I found in the trunk. The trunk carb was encrusted in about 1/8 inch of road crud and God knows what, the throat was so cruddy I couldn't even close the choke completely. I thought for sure the one on the car would be the good one, it looked clean on the outside, but it had a couple of rusted and broken springs, a questionable float, so I pulled out the other one. It looked so rough, I thought for sure I'd be lucky to just get some decent parts out of it. Then, I remembered this thread from this morning, and realized that I actually had a small ultrasonic cleaner somewhere in my junk. 50/50 mix of Simple Green and Water, couple of hours in the machine, and the carb looks amazing. Every part that came off of it looks like new. Except the damn float retainer spring, which is broken on both, and set me back about 15 damn dollars. Sniper, the tutorial on your website was a great help. A good trick I learned somewhere is to put the tiny bits in a glass, fill the glass with solution, and put the glass suspended in the basket, surrounded with solution. The ultrasonic waves will do their thing to the solution inside the glass. I don't know if all ultrasonic cleaners have a heater unit, but getting the solution up to about 185 F probably helps, too. -Art

Great advice, and fantastic paper on fluid coupling. I haven't yet done a deep dive into fluid drive, and other than the badge on the glove box that says I have it, I'm a little confused if the tip-toe shift indeed has it. Wiki says: Many automobile historians confuse Chrysler's Fluid Drive with the Corporation's so-called semi-automatic M5/M6 transmissions, which were marketed under various names as “Simplimatic” (Chrysler), “Tip-Toe Shift” (DeSoto), and “Gyro-Matic” (Dodge). Unfortunately, Chrysler itself contributed to the confusion by referring to both the standard-shift fluid drive and M6 installations indiscriminately as "Fluid Drive" in much of their marketing and sales literature. I'll get these answers when I get my manuals, I guess. I don't know if I'm going to go so far as to hone the cylinders, but I think the head is going to come off. My temperment won't let me not peek in there I dropped some coin on Rock Auto and Bernbaum, and have lots of goodies coming, I'll keep anyone who gives a rip updated. Regarding the brakes, I think I'm pretty wary of repo parts from all the horror stories I've read. Depending on the condition of wheel cylinders and master cylinder, I may take a crack at rebuilding, though I'm not sure it's a smart move to not just put all new stuff in there. -Art

For crying out loud, I was at "then and now" yesterday, and I couldn't find any fuel pump kits, their site was still under construction. Thanks for the link, and the tech tips, I would've had to learn that stuff the hard way! I definitely need to acquaint myself with what all the parts on this thing look like--without that, it's hard for me to take the word of anonymous ebay sellers that their parts will work for my application.

The message board won't let me like your post, I'm shut off for the day...so, *like* Great advice, thanks! I'll research leak down testing. It's a fluid drive, with tip-toe transmission. The shift lever moves hard as hell, but I don't doubt it probably needs lubrication and use--it got that feeling like I'm slogging through some heavy crud when I try to shift. I'll read up at those sources, thanks again. The shop manual, parts book and a Motors manual are on their way. The consensus seems to be to just run the damn thing. I'm glad I asked you guys, it's good to have a check on my tendency to go overboard and make extra work for myself, thanks everyone. Maybe I can set a goal of Sept. '21 for the Desoto to make a road trip up to the Finger Lakes!

Looks like it's gonna be a new fuel pump, not a rebuild kit...nobody seems to have them. I'll give Antique Auto Cellar a call tomorrow. Yeah, looking forward to yanking brake drums...

Good advice. As I mentioned, there is no shortage of stuff to do to make it simply roadworthy. Man, that '38 looks sweet!

Absolutely--that's almost at the top of my list. There's no varnish stink whatsoever when I stick my nose in the filler, but I'm going to take it out, put a chain in it, and give it a shake 'n' bake, or maybe take it to a rad shop and have them deal. Fuel pump works, too...kind of can't believe it.

Hmmm...I'll try to resist my urge to pull everything to pieces I just hate the thought of being the guy to wreck something that was perfectly good all this time. My only other experience with something this old was a total garbage '52 flathead Ford that apparently couldn't be killed, so yeah, I hear what you're saying. It needs plenty, so I'm not worried about wondering what I need to do next besides engine forensics.

I guess the numbers back up the rebuild story--I think it's supposed to be 113 from the factory. Honestly, I would've been happy with 60 p.s.i., but I'm pretty thrilled the guy wasn't yanking my chain about the condition.

Been there! I've worked on my car in winter, in the street in NYC with cars whizzing by my head, but at some point I decided I was too old for that s$&t. My 19X19 unheated garage is a palace compared to that.

Thanks, man! With my budget, I wasn't expecting to get the body style, condition, AND color, but I hit the trifecta. The oil is pretty fudgey, I'll definitely pull the pan. Luckily, it's all oil and crud, no coolant. The story is that it was inside for most of the last 70 years, and the general condition of things kind of bears that out. The engine builder guy said I should fill the cylinders with PB Blaster, let it sit for as long as I can stand it, suck it out, and then oil it and just run it. I really think the head should come off, and the feeler gauge should come out. That's not my garage, by the way...

Hey Folks, I've been lurking here for some time, in anticipation of one day scratching my 40s Mopar itch, reading a ton. After a long search, logging many miles to go look at overpriced rotboxes, I drug home this little beast...a 1947 Desoto Custom Coupe. Pretty minimal rust, straight body and frame, amazingly solid floors and rockers for this part of the world, a paint job that looks ok from 100 ft., not very gross interior from the 80s, the fake wood grain paint is very much intact, and from what I can tell, wear and tear that seems to corroborate the 50k odometer reading. It runs, not great at the moment, due to the wiring under the hood being crap, backs up and goes forward, and after running for awhile, seems to idle nicely with no smoke. I discovered evidence, that my emotions caused me to ignore during the walk-around, of an old fender bender--the hood doesn't close right, and the front clip is out of alignment. It also came with a nice trunkful of spare trim and other parts. Overall, it's a very good starting point, and I'm pretty damn excited--I've wanted a 40s coupe since I was a little kid. After 32 years of driving, this will be the first vehicle I own that's not just for getting my butt from one place to another, on time, in one piece. Hopefully, I can make it do that, too. The guy who sold it to me, who happens to be an old drag racing engine builder, claimed that he rebuilt the engine in '76, and it was never driven, and the current owner let it sit until now. It definitely needs a basic tune up. I'm going to disconnect the entire wiring loom, which is crunchy and scary, and put some temporary wiring in so I can hot wire start it, and move it in and out of my tiny garage. I plan on making my own wiring looms with cloth covered wires (God help me). Beyond plugs, cables and wires, I think I should also pull the heads, examine the cylinder walls for scoring and ridges, look at the valves, pull the oil pan, clean out sludge. The compression test was a little uneven--the number one cylinder had compression of around 75, the rest around 100-110. We poured a little oil in the number one cylinder, and it came up to 125, pointing to rings? Would it be a good idea to pull the caps on the crank and examine those, too, and even go so far as to pull the pistons and measure the wear on the cylinder walls, before putting the engine into service? Thanks, looking forward to being here for awhile! -Art