Dakota swap, clip or whole chassis?

[Steve-L]

I’m contemplating a dakota swap for my B3B and I’m wondering what the pros and cons are, front clip vs whole chassis.

did you keep all the running gear?

Did you search out the V8 or go with the V6?

As I don’t know, what I don’t know. What haven’t I thought of?

Thanks in advance

[Steve-L]

To answer my own questions, I found this site:

http://www.dakota-truck.net/infosheet.html

 

It lists a lot of info on the Dakota’s, hopefully it’s accurate and helps others.

Seems 87-90 used the 5 on 4.5” bolt pattern, and 92-96 had the better V8

The rear end has 3 ratios, 3.21 found in the V6 & V8, 3.55 found in the 4 cyl optional on V6 & V8, 3.90 was an option for V6 & V8.

 

V8’s came with either a 46RH auto or a NV3500 man transmissions

 

WB is 112”, track width is 60.8 both are a bit longer and wider than PH, but not by much.

The PH WB is 108”, can’t seem to locate track width, but from others posting their projects, it seems to be about 4” narrower, so 56”ish.

The Dakota chassis kicks up behind the cab, so a full chassis swap means reworking the bed mounting of the PH. Going with just a front clip eliminates that work.

So for myself, definitely leaning towards the front clip of a 87-90 dak, with all the running gear.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Steve-L
Clarify the rear end ratio‘s and track width

[falconvan]

That’s what I’m doing except I’m keeping the flathead 

[Adam H P15 D30]

Do the clip, not the frame swap.  Very few frame swaps don't look like a vehicle sitting on the wrong frame.  One exception here is Radarsonwheels' thread, he did a magnificent job with his frame swap but it took more work than a clip.

 

Measure carefully for the clip because a lot of those end up looking like crap too.  Best advice on clipping I can give you is:

1. The ball joints are not necessarily at the wheel center line

2. Measure the angle of the upper control arm front to back and duplicate it 

3. do ALL fitting with the vehicle blocked at ride height

 

Adam

[Steve-L]

Good point about ball joint not necessarily being  at wheel centerline

I don’t think I understand #2

i thought to triangulate off the firewall to locate front wheel centerline along both rails. 

Clearly I need more information. 

 

[Steve-L]

Found this article 

https://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Frame_swaps

 

its more involved than I was initially thinking, but hey, I don’t know what I don’t know.

[Radarsonwheels]

I think on #2 he’s talking about getting the caster right- you will need the UCAs to be in the same position on your frame as they were on the donor which might not be as simple as both frames level and weld it up. Can’t hurt to throw an angle finder on the  UCAs and get them in the ballpark . 

 

Don’t over think it though it’s not rocket science and the front end is all adjustable anyway to a certain extent. A 32nd” one way or the other won’t matter. I don’t know about triangulating anything. If I did another I would probably block up my old truck level, remove the front wheels, use a plumb bob and mark the floor under the wheel arches for center and mark their outside edges too. Verify they are the same and not warped from crashes or whatever and if so fudge the marks or fix them. Then when you pull your front sheetmetal off you will still know exactly where your new front tires need to end up. 

 

You will need to deal with the funky wasp waist area in the old frame and you will also need to chop off some of the front of the new frame and make a new rad support crossmember. Again- drop marks with a plumb bob to the floor and note the height measurement, then leave a little extra room for rubber or poly or washers so you can shim it perfect later. 

 

If you want to learn from my mistakes the best advice I can give is to measure the dak ride height (frame to floor) before you pull the driveline. Also don’t over think the attachment point where your frames meet. You could tack them up with 3/8” round rod or whatever and adjust the fit until you are happy before sleeving and boxing them together with plate steel. 

 

Oh and this is dumb but totally a big one- for suspension rebuilding use a torch to heat the upper ball joint sockets in the UCAs and unscrew them with a proper square drive BJ socket in a breaker bar stuck in the longest super strong steel tube you have. And do this with the UCAs still attached to the car, and the motor still in, rear wheels on the ground. Mine needed ox/a torching until the grease was sizzling and dripping out and I was leaning on a six foot breaker bar extension hard like a football practice sled and they both fought me most of the way out. If I tried that in my pipe vice I would have just moved my 300lb work table across the garage and bent the control arm. 

 

That’s all I can think of right now but good luck and keep asking questions. Don’t forget that these things go through an awkward puberty phase while you’re building them and if you keep plugging away it will get done.

 

Radar

 

[Steve-L]

Thanks for the info and the encouragement. 

[Adam H P15 D30]

2 hours ago, Steve-L said:

Good point about ball joint not necessarily being  at wheel centerline

I don’t think I understand #2

i thought to triangulate off the firewall to locate front wheel centerline along both rails. 

Clearly I need more information. 

 

The upper control arm points up towards the front where it attaches to the frame. Try to keep the angle the same as the donor car. This feature makes it a vast improvement over older independent suspensions. 

 

[Steve-L]

?

light turns on! The graphic was the key. 

Thank you. 

[Steve-L]

I had the opportunity to visit a full custom fabrication shop and this was under construction. As stated above, blocked at ride height and the angled front top A arm for anti dive

Edited September 1, 2019 by Steve-L