3046moparcoupe Posted January 16, 2018 Report Posted January 16, 2018 Got all the hinges off the Club Coupe without stripping anything,...not much if any paint left on the hinges anywhere (lots of rust inside and out). Oddly enough, the drivers door didn't seem to have much if any sag, but the passenger side had some. from memory you could see the door raise probably a 1/4" when it was shut and hit the striker. When I grabbed these hinges to feel for play, 3 of them felt tighter than I had expected, but you could feel just a slight bit of movement,...(something like what I would guess to be maybe between a 64th and a 32nd or so, not very much,....but the 4th hinge (passenger side bottom hinge) had what felt like at least twice or triple that amount of play in it, you could see it moving... A little penetrating oil soaking, and a hammer/ punch / and a deep socket as a backup removed the 1st three hinge pins with just a few medium raps with a small hammer....but this 4th hinge pin (the one that was so sloppy) isn't giving it up....I've got it to move a bit,....but I am a little hesitant about hitting the assy very hard with a hammer...you can tell the pins is free on both ends (where it anchors into the hinge frame, but it's froze up in the middle section (where it slides through the hinge strap itself) - yuck not good,....my mind is telling me this one is definitely gonna have to have more done to it than just possible adding a new pin,..with it turning on both ends like that, it would look to me like it's gonna have to be oversized to be saved and made to work...?? Any thoughts, experience with this ? So just as I've learned with rusted frozen bolts, I'd like to use some heat to try and break that rust bond up,....I've just read on the HAMB where it seems to be fairly common practice to use a heat wrench (Torch) in getting these things out....Just thought I'd ask about putting heat on this hinge here on the forum, don't wanna make a mistake,..I'm thinking anything to do with these hinges is pretty much a one shot thing, better get it right the 1st time...?? if you guys here on the forum confirm that using heat on a hinge is OK, my 1st run at it is gonna be more like using warm water on it, in comparison to what you guys normally do. I don't have a real torch rig yet with a nice rose bud tip,...so my 1st run at it would be with a small hand held torch,.....not a fraction as good - but I have found that if you just stay the course, eventually it will heat up to almost a hint of reddish,...anyway - I figure it can't hurt to try,....that is - if Heat on a hinge is OK ???? My book says that the hinge pins for these 46-48 Plymouths were originally 1/4" diameter, I guess someone has already drilled these and oversized,..mine are around the .341-.343 diameter, so I'm thinking they are 11/32 diameter pins,....anyone out there know for sure, if the original pins were 1/4 dia or 11/32 dia. ?? These pins I got out all measure right at 2 - 1/16th inch from under the head to the tip of the pin, 2 - 3/16th " overall....there's not anything out there I can find that's 11/32nd's dia and that short, course I know people cut them off to the size you need, butt these really don't look like they were cut...if they were cut by hand - they did a nice matching job on all of them...I looked through Dorman's complete listing of hinge pins today and found a couple of long ones that might work for me, one pin had a diameter of .350 and the other was .352.... This is really gonna be a learning experience, you guys you've been there and done it, I'd sure appreciate a word of advice from your corner. many thanks - AGAIN Steve Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted January 16, 2018 Report Posted January 16, 2018 torch will not harm it...the hinge pin is hidden from view when installed...any portion that stick out serves no purpose but to tell you in made it though the hinge...there is little chance anyone is going to measure the length of the pin once installed cut to length you are comfortable with..replacement pins are generic for just this purpose...concentrate on the important stuff like proper interference fit when fitting your oversize pin and placing the hinge back into service.. 1 Quote
3046moparcoupe Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Posted January 17, 2018 Thanks Mr. Moose - heat it is,....next step - get that last hinge separated,.....It would make sense to me that you want your pin to have it's interference fit on both ends of the pin, where your knurling is located and the far opposite end, to hold the pin firm inside the hinge frame itself,......then your non interference fit would be a bit larger around the center of the pin - where the hinge tongue itself (heavy strap section of hinge that attaches to the door),...can rotate freely around the mid section of the hinge pin, when the door is opened and closed.....any recommendations on how many thousands of clearance is optimal ?? too tight a fit not good, too loose a fit and you shorten the service life, a couple thousands if possible ?? The other element of these old style hinges I caught myself looking at, was in respect to gravity's basic pull downward on the door, which is always gonna have the door hinge tongue resting/riding on the bottom pivot surface of both the upper and lower door hinge...looks like eventually no matter if the pins are tight, this metal to metal area, on the bottom, where each hinge tongue to hinge frame contacts, and pivots when being moved,...is gonna wear so far that the hinge is no longer any good ?? When that happens - I suppose you could add material back with a welder and resurface, (don't know anything about how hardened this steel on these hinges is - and probably way easier said than done), or possible adding in metal shim (to take the place of the metal now lost to friction/wear ) to raise the hinge tongue back up slightly - in effort of re-centering the hinge tongue back in the middle of the hinge frame ?? Maybe I'm trying to take on too many aspects of refurbishing the hinges, at one single time ?,.....is it best to tackle the pin fitment 1st, then look at the tongue alignment secondary ? I suppose my reason for asking, is in effort of avoiding a lot of work that could end up being for naught - if the hinge frame to hinge tongue pivot opening fitment has become too sloppy vertically, and that turns out to be the kiss of death for an old hinge of this style ?? Wouldn't be the first time, I spent a bunch of hours on a part, to find out later that I (other than learning a good lesson), had just wasted my time... Don't know if it's possible for anyone to give me any pointers on this part of the hinge's wear,....as being within tolerance or out of tolerance....maybe a few thousands of wear here in this area is no big deal ? The hinge frame does sorta seem to give you a reference to look at - when the hinge tongue is installed with the pin, you can operate open and close the hinge tongue while holding the assy in your hand and eye the clearance gap on each side of the hinge tongue, (small space between the edge of the hinge tongue and the edge of the hinge frame on both sides of the tongue), if a person did whatever was necessary (adding shim stock) to get the hinge tongue centered,...would that be as good as possible ?? I'm thinking maybe my forum member name is gonna need to be changed from "3046" to "Mr.Question"... God bless you all for your willingness to share your hard earned knowledge with others, like me Steve Quote
Branded Posted January 17, 2018 Report Posted January 17, 2018 If you find the hole for the hinge pin is worn excessively you can install a bronze bushing and use a new pin. 1 Quote
3046moparcoupe Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Posted January 17, 2018 Branded, I like the idea of any repair/restoration, that has as long of a working life as possible...(never have been interested in the quick fix that isn't gonna get ya down the road very far), in saying that, I'm truly not sure that using the more modern style setup of a hinge pin used with bronze bushings,...is an example of that...?? Certainly later in auto technology, mfgs went that route, and decided that it would be better to have a wear point that could be replaced,...but also the more modern era doors I believe are quite a bit lighter in overall weight, than what these old doors were ?? Yes , absolutely I had thought about maybe trying to modify the door hinges to accept a hinge pin/bronze bushing setup,...but also wondered why Mopar didn't do it that way originally to begin with ?? They were already using bronze bushings in the clutch and brake pedals, as well as in the torque shaft.. ?? Sorta figured it might be due to the fact that the weight of the doors would take the bronze bushings out so fast, that they might have decided against it ? Just my SWAG (sophisticated wild ass guess on all this. Have you had any experience with restoring these hinges with pins and bronze bushings ? or know of any success stories in that regard ?? Steve Quote
Branded Posted January 17, 2018 Report Posted January 17, 2018 I have no experience on these old Mopar hinges but I have restored numerous Muscle car era door hinges using bronze bushing to bring the hinges back to life and they have held up very well. I also believe there is quite a bit of weight in the modern car door once they started adding the crash beam inside the doors along with all the power operated features. You would be surprised on how heavy these later era door are compared to these old Mopars. Have you ever removed a door from a 1974 Grand Prix, if you have you know what I’m talking about. It’s a 2 man job, compared to my 49 Wayfarer Convertible door that I can install by myself. 1 Quote
3046moparcoupe Posted January 17, 2018 Author Report Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the reply back Branded, you may have a good solid point there,....just trying to do the right things with these hinges 1st time around...as I figure I only get 1 shot to do it right before it ends up being a botched process.....thank you. Edited January 17, 2018 by 3046moparcoupe Quote
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