49 Chry Instrument Cluster

[rb1949]

Back again after the long cold spell and no progress. BORING! Was finally able to get the trunk wiring 'in place', down along the fenders and some up into the trunk lid. Not connected yet, everything will be hooked to a new terminal block. Crawled up front today and dropped the heater control. Then pulled out the real A/C vent flap controls, Needs a good cleaning & lubrication. Got a new rubber gasket for the outside. Looks like it just sits in a channel. Will pick out the old dry one and clean it good. Got the radio out! Holy cow, what a monster. Will check it, but have strong feelings to forget that beastly thing. There is a no-radio plate for the hole. The cluster project is still waiting. See I can disconnect the oil line and temp line under the hood, Then pull them thru the now removed grommet hole in the firewall. Both will mean no driving/starting. The temp looks like a 'nut' screwed into the block. Thought about just removing the gauge, but that would leave the delicate needles exposed to damage. The housing that holds the cluster also has 4 switches attached. More wires that need attention. If anything works when done it will be a miracle.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Be careful pulling the temp gauge sensor bulb from the head. They get stuck and you will break it off.

Remove the head core plug above it if it doesn't come out easily.

[rb1949]

Back here again. Re-wiring inside the trunk is done, and things work. Dumb cold came back stopping work. Finished rebuilding the heater control assembly. Even restored the rusty bumper jack. Ha. Today loosened nut on temp sensor in block. Y'all are right, the sensor 'bulb' in there doesn't budge. Soaking now. Heeding your advice about the freeze plug above it, and saw another post about removing it. Better check a replacement plug first. That one inch hole gives you enough access to wiggle it? Is a new plug just pounded into the hole? Copper plug or? Looks like just a 'nut' attaches it to the gauge? Maybe not as easy as I think. Hoping for success, and being able to remove the instrument cluster. Have slight ambition to try and accomplish something. Everything seems to toss is a few new extra challenges to get anywhere. I'm trying to keep up with a 'log book' of activities. Maybe I should write a manual pertaining to direct experiences with the goofy '49 Chrysler,

[_shel_ny]

How you want it to look.

 

 

And

 

 

How you don't want it to look.

[rb1949]

Good pictures and advice. Goofy bulb is still reluctant. Seems to 'wiggle' but not come out. More spray before freeze plug attempt. Got mad, and pulled the 2 gauges from the cluster to get it out of the way. Slightly more room to work. Can remove switches. Wiring is a disaster, thanks to Chrysler. Anyhow, did spin the speedo, and it works. (Nobody ever said it works counterclockwise.) Trip odometer rolled over, but not the regular mileage dial(?). Gave it some oil. Trip odometer reset cable is frozen.  Lots of complicated gear mechanisms in there.Will proceed with caution.

[rb1949]

Caution to the wind. Drills and saws helped dismantle things and production moved forward at a better pace. Getting the instrument cluster housing out gave room to work on necessary wiring. Think odometer, trip odometer, and trip odometer reset cable are working. Had to make a new fiber gasket for the cluster. (Posted the template). Now, will all these pieces go back together?

[rb1949]

Back again. Partial re-wire seems to be working, Got detoured by repainting the cluster housing, and then the dash (in the car). Also repainted all gauge needles. Spiffy! Had to drill screws to get vent flap out for new rubber seal and drain hose. Would like to replace ignition cylinder, but switch is hidden enough so can't see anything. No bezel holding the switch in? There's a trick to this I'm sure. Any experienced clues or photos  welcome. 4 band-aids on scraped fingers.

[_shel_ny]

Look up from below. Should be a phillips screw. just loosen, then push switch and cylinder toward firewall

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:  add pic

 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by shel_ny

[rb1949]

It's attached to some kind of bracket?? There is an access hole underneath, but the switch is mounted at least 1 1/2" above this hole.Not close as your picture shows. Can't see anything trying to look up in the hole. Loosen screw, don't remove it? Could insert a screwdriver up and try to feel if it grabs a screw. Not finding anything pertaining directly to the '49, which has a lot of weird things. Wishing for the way to just release and slide the cylinder out the front. Replacement cylinders are cheap, entire switches are not.

edit: spotted photo indicating that is the access hole to loosen a "screw. Guessing it may not be a bracket, but a molded part of that dash piece on the back side.

Edited May 18, 2016 by rb1949

[Dodgeb4ya]

It's easy to remove the ignition switch.

Remove the firewall mounted IGN switch armored cable grommet.

Use a Phillips screw driver ...stick it up in the lower dash hole 2" and remove the screw completely.

The switch and cable ONLY remove from the back side of the dash. 

You probably will have to remove the wires first from the switch.

 Easy.

[_shel_ny]

Thanks for the screw removal correction. Any that I have removed just slid back after the screw was loosened. They all had a slot rather than just a hole. That is why I suggested just to loosen the screw, so it would not be a fight to get the screw back up through the dash hole, and into the switch.  I guess there has to be an exception made on everything for the '49

[rb1949]

Sorry, this is not easy. I have poked up in there with a Phiilips and have yet to feel any screw to turn. Obviously can't see a thing up there by looking in the tiny hole, so don't know what I looking for anyhow. Remove the screw. How on earth would you get it back in?? Thought about removing that tiny section of chrome dash piece which the switch is attached to.  But there is probably a screw in the far upper left, impossible to get to. Ordered a cylinder, may not get to use it. I'm annoyed at the moment.

[_shel_ny]

Time for a flashlight and a mirror, or flashlight and a camera.

[rb1949]

Best I could see from the backside there is no screw up there on the bottom of the switch. Options.....it's not the original '49 switch?? If not, what the heck is holding it in there. I only see regular wire to it, no special cables. Here's the pix if that helps. Plus there is one of those tiny push in bulbs next to it. What good would that do? Still annoyed, and another band aid.

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I'm done with help on 49 chryslers.

[Branded]

The switch appears to be original, the bulb you speak of is to light up the ignition switch key hole. I sent you pictures of how the switch mount in my 49 Wayfarer. I post here also for future reference for others.

[dpollo]

I recently replaced a switch on a 49 Chrysler and all the others above have given you good information.

I do not recall having any difficulty.  Replacement switches and those used after 1953 did not have the armored cable but otherwise

install just the same. Is it possible somebody removed the screw and instead of replacing it glued the switch into its sleeve.?

[rb1949]

GOT IT!!  Not until I drilled that dang hole larger was I able to actually look up there and SEE the Phillips screw. The E brake handle had been getting in the way, preventing a straight shot to the screw. So must have an original switch. Stubby little thing, a few turns and it fell out. Finally, now I can provide a tip to the 49 Chrysler people. Do not REMOVE the screw, just loosen it. The screw is in a slot, not a hole, to slide the switch in and out. The screw is in the switch during reassembly, once in the slot, just tighten. Thank God for that idea.

I'll also retract my statement about no armor cable. It's there. I was looking for cable, but it's only a short piece coming thru the firewall grommet. Can some human, with common sense and no Chrysler engineering mind, please post a logical reason/purpose for this cable??? For one wire??? It is insane. Wish it were easy to just chop it off. OK, now yank on everything to get it pulled out to a workable location. Almost time for the Grand Finale. Help PLEASE. Remember I've never done any of this stuff. I'm replacing the cylinder, not the switch. The new one is here. Directions tell how to get a switch out of a steering column?? HA. Nothing about changing a cylinder. There is a button to press. The button is about 11:00 position? Same on new cylinder. Picture of mine is attached. Turn key to "run" only and press in button and cylinder comes out(?) Try to position key in new cylinder in similar position and slide in place? Button holds it in. Your wisdom and experience is highly appreciated. 4 Band Aids yesterday, only 2 today. Will look like the Mummy soon. If this last item is successful, should be able to start reassembly. Then you'll be able to see my new paint too.

 

Edit: forgot, a bulb to light the switch. And what makes this bulb light up to see it?

Edited May 19, 2016 by rb1949

[dpollo]

You have the instructions as to how to change the lock cylinder. It is easy.  The light comes on with the park lights.

[_shel_ny]

Yes,  when installing the new cylinder  also position it to the "run", or "on' position the same as you did for the one you are removing.  If you do not line it up that way you can push till you are blue in the face, and it will not go in.

 

If you want to you can carefully cut the armor off. Carefully to not damage the wire.  The inside of the armor is larger than it is where it exits the end.  If you are careful you can do it. Definitely a job for the work bench where you can turn to grind at it a bit at a time all the way around. If you do touch the wire a bit some shrink sleeve will cover it. Cut it 4-6" out so you get a second try if you get heavy handed.

 

Past posted consensus seems to lean toward the fact that the armor was a theft prevention attempt. Not as easy to hot wire it. Just needed to have that 1 wire inaccessible. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by shel_ny

[rb1949]

The instruction that came with it described how to remove the steering wheel and replace a SWITCH.(??)  My words above are what I found on how to turn the key and press the little button, and if that was the proper method for changing the cylinder. Process confirmed, thanks. But this is a weird  '49!! Better leave cable wire alone and grumble. Now curious, that wire goes to a box on the inner fender well, what's that for? (It's next to the turn flasher). Will have to learn when entering vehicle in the dark to turn light switch and illuminate ignition! Better test each one of those lamp sockets now, that makes 6 of them back there. Small #55 bulbs. Another delay. Hey, also noticed the e-brake also has a switch on it. Another light somewhere?? Lot of goodies in there, lotta questions. Tired of fixing, anxious to assemble. Hope for successful follow up report.

[dpollo]

The emergency brake warning light flashes when the brake is ON. It is wired to the turn signal flasher.

 

The box on the firewall is the horn relay, the ignition lead puts power there on its way to the ign, coil.  We were all

novices once and I would suggest you get both the glove box manual and the shop manual for your car.  They are both very informative, each in its own way.  

Edited May 20, 2016 by dpollo

[rb1949]

Already worked on horn problems, and the relay on the firewall. The armor wire goes to a box on the fender well. Might be something called a circuit breaker/resistor, part of the ignition/tranny circuits. Have the owners manual and a copy of a shop manual, but it doesn't cover everything. Looks like the e-brake should illuminate the map lite and turn signal indicator bulb. Nice out, get busy.

[dpollo]

I did not realize your car had the M6 transmission.  That "box" contains the circuit breaker for the transmission circuit and a resistor which is part of the Kick down ignition interrupter.  The emergency brake warning light is not part of the map light.

[rb1949]

Cool. Slowly getting an idea of what these strange pieces are for. The wiring diagram gives connections to components, but that doesn't tell you where they are located or what they look like. Everyone's wise wisdom has again provided the info to accomplish a task. My novice skills Thank You. Not everything is an "exact" match, but many times close enough to figure it out.

This Instrument Cluster blossomed into a multitude of additional unexpected projects. Although adding extra time, I think if you're working in an area, try to check/fix while you're in there, rather than adding work by going back later. Gives you more experience learning to be a contortionist like the circus rubber man. I'm slow anyhow. The new cylinder/tumbler is in, and ignition switch screwed back in place. Just glad it fit. Shoved all wires/components back in the 'hole' to put the cluster housing back in place, 3 switches attach to the housing. Proceeding with tedious caution reattaching the instrument cluster.......the part with no room to get behind it. Just now thought, there are 2 wires to the Amp gauge (short) which limit the room to work. Think I'll go back and splice in 2-3" per wire. That would allow the cluster to slide forward much more, providing ample room to work behind there. Another detour. Why didn't I think of that sooner? Wish me luck getting it back together. Might get that picture too.