Bendix Drive Question

[Joe Flanagan]

I have the Bendix drive out of my starter. There doesn't seem to be anything visibly wrong with it. I soaked it in solvent overnight and it's very clean, though there are surfaces that I can't see and I don't know their condition. My question is, when you compress the drive and then release it, should it spring right back? Mine does not. It had some spring to it when it was in the starter, though it did hang up a good deal. After soaking it overnight it has no spring at all. I was assuming that this is because the solvent washed out any lubrication that was there. I compress the thing and release it and it stays compressed. Is this normal?

[norrism1]

Joe, What type of Bendix does your starter use, "F" type or "CD" type, Compression type, or barrel type? What is the starter number (Example- MCH-6101?) Is the starter a stomp or solenoid type?

Edited January 8, 2010 by norrism1

[Joe Flanagan]

My starter number is the same you used in your example, MCH-6101. As far as your other questions go, I can't say. The starter does not have a solenoid as far as I know. It's a 1949 Plymouth and the bendix drive is mounted directly on the armature shaft. The bendix does compress. It has a large spring on one end and a large spiral groove machined into its shaft. I can compress it with my hand and it will stay that way. I messed with a similar one today at a salvage yard and it behaved the same way so maybe it's OK.

[Young Ed]

Joe your starter does use a solenoid but its not starter mounted. Its remote. Plymouths didnt have floor start since prewar and I believe your 49 is the first year of key start.

[Rodney Bullock]

I showed Joe today that the starter relay for his type of starter was on the fire wall. We looked at starters at the junk yard today that had the solenoid on the body of the starter. Push button or keystart use the ford type. I have a 1940 Plymouth however my starter system is a 1953.

[Joe Flanagan]

Yeah, thanks Rodney for going along for the ride and helping me out. I appreciate it. I look forward to driving my green Plymouth out to your country place in nice weather. You'll need to get another sofa to set up outside the garage, though.

I knew about the starter solenoid. Mine is mounted on the driver's side inner fender. I was not aware of how it worked, though, or what it does. I thought it just acted as a kind of relay. When this thing is activated, does it throw the pinion gear out to engage the flywheel?

[Rodney Bullock]

To that Joe, I don't know. Things get energized and it starts:) It's funny I push the button and the starter engages when the starter starts it jumps back into the starter case. How it does that I don't have a clue. I know someone on here knows:)

Edited January 9, 2010 by Rodney Bullock

[Joe Flanagan]

It does seem like the pinion gear would just stay engaged with the flywheel, the way my Bendix operates. So yeah, I hope one of the true gurus steps up and clears this up.

[norrism1]

Let me see if I can remember correctly.

When voltage is sent thru the solenoid to starter, starter spins and centrifical force overcomes the spring holding bendix back thus engaging flywheel. Result- engine cranks over and starts running. When voltage to starter is cut off return spring pushes bendix back to rest and dis-engages from flywheel. About as simple as I can get.

[Young Ed]

When the engine fires it triggers the gear to retract. Thats the difference on the old vs newer style drive. The newer style has the ability to stay engaged more til the engine starts rather then retracting at the first little fire off

[Joe Flanagan]

Thanks, guys. Norrism1's explanation makes sense to me. I also found this from forum member Marty Bose in an earlier thread:

"When the starter armature fires up the pinion climbs a thread to engage the flywheel. When either the armature stops or the flywheel speeds up, the pinion climbs in the opposite direction to disengage from the flywheel."

The thing about my Bendix is that when you compress it and the pinion gear climbs the thread to engage the flywheel, it seems to want to stay there. You have to push it back to its original position. The spring wont move it back by itself. Maybe that's normal. Maybe the spring is worn out. Keep in mind that I've never had the engine running and the starter is out of the car. This is just an observation from having the thing disassambled. It is clean and well-oiled, so if it's faulty, it's something like the spring on it being shot. When I get the new bushings I'm going to put it all back together and test it and see what happens.

[Jim Yergin]

Joe,

How was the road trip with Rodney yesterday? Find anything other than snow and cold wind?

Jim Yergin

[Joe Flanagan]

We didn't go to Leon's but we did go to a salvage yard in the wilds of Maryland. The place is getting ready to shut down and there isn't much there. The old guy and his sidekick were like something straight out of "Deliverance" and that is no exaggeration. I could barely understand a word the owner said, though Rodney didn't seem to have any problem. The old guy seemed to think that a different starter was going to help us somehow and he wanted to sell it to us for fifty bucks. I told him I was looking for a Bendix drive from a starter like mine so I could switch it out and test it. He basically told us he thought the drive in this old starter "might" be the same. I wasn't about to buy the thing. We looked all around. The guy was bent out of shape because we didn't buy anything. I felt kind of bad but I figured I'm not obligated to buy anything just because he opens the door and lets me in. Rodney and I walked around in the snow and checked out a couple of old DeSotos. Very, very nice cars at one time. Not anymore. The seats in the 54 look really good, though.

It was pretty cold. We went to Rodney's country place and started his Studebaker and his Plymouth coupe. I don't have any exposure to these engines aside from tearing one apart and rebuilding it. I haven't been around actual running flatheads much, so this was a treat for me. Both of those cars run very smoothly and quietly.

So a trip to Leon's is in the cards for another day.