46Chris

Merle, I think you nailed it ?

My wife shared a Facebook Marketplace ad with me. Listing read: "Posting a 1947 Plymouth Deluxe Special for a friend. P15 motor runs. 68,982 mi, Automatic transmission." We were looking for a '46-'48 car, and she likes dark blue. She said, "Didn't we used to have a Plymouth, the maroon station wagon?" I said, "Yes, the '49 Suburban. What a great car that was." Not much of an ad, a couple of exterior shots (nice looking) and a couple interior. I saw plaid seats, which I imagined were seat covers. It was not priced like old cars I see (and ignore) on Marketplace - somewhere between proud and fantasy. So I figured it must need work. I left a vm, and later received a vm from a lady who said it was her husband's pride and joy, but time to say goodbye to it. That was an encouraging message. We text arranged a time to talk, and I included a photo gallery of the cars we've had, and said we were looking for just one old car, since in our new digs (restoring a lake house in northern WI) I no longer had a big building to fill with a collection. I've found over the years that negotiating for a memory-laden car is more like an adoption proceeding. It's important to the seller that the car goes to a good home. I wanted her to know that my wife and I are old car lovers. When we connected on the phone, the first question I asked her after we talked for a bit was "What do you love about this car?" I wanted to hear the whole story. Her husband loved this Plymouth, and when he wasn't homebuilding or helping neighbors, he was spending time with his Plymouth. Lot of family outings, parades, weddings, car shows. Sounded like my kind of car. That was Monday, and I arranged to drive the 2 1/2 hours to see the car today. Looked very different from the exterior photos in the FB ad, just because it was so dusty. I imagine those FB photos had been taken some time ago. She showed me the appraisal she'd gotten two years ago, that the inspector had deemed a "lovely survivor." I came to the party not knowing a lot about Plymouths. What I thought were seat covers appear to be pristine upholstery. Door panels perfect, original headliner not sagging, garnish moulding not faded, very little add-on wiring under the dash. Underneath, zero rust. No dents, some respray but still carrying most of its original paint. Chrome not pitted. Tires old enough to not have DOT dates, but holding air (replacing them will be the first money spent). Went to match the title serial # to the door post number, and saw it was not the same. Asked if the appraiser had mentioned anything about it, and she said "no, he just asked for the number off the title." No worries, matched it to the engine number. Went to start it, and the battery was stone dead. I noticed a switch down on the steering column and traced the wiring to the battery and the hood ornament, where he'd installed a little light. Since she insisted the car had just been started a few weeks ago, I imagined that someone accidentally flipped that switch. Her daughter was there, and said she'd have a 6v charger hooked up tomorrow. I suggested that when the charger's hooked up, make sure the hood ornament light switch is turned off. Assuming they can get that completely dead newish-looking battery to take a charge. I told her I loved the car, and I'd wait to hear on them getting the car started. The overall condition was a big surprise. A minor oops was a small hole I saw in the headliner hidden by the passenger sunvisor - filled with stuffing. We cleared it out, and I said that if they had a few traps to set them with some peanut butter. When I get it home, I'll hook up an ozone machine and let it run for a day to clear out the mouse smell (which was not that detectable). Another surprise was that the car is a manual shift, not fluid drive. No idea what the friend saw to make him think it was an automatic, but given his ad's entire description of "P15 motor runs" I won't press the point. Happy that it's a manual shift, would have been fine if it were fluid drive. I'm headed back on Saturday with a truck and trailer pending them getting it started. Their local NAPA can get them a 6v battery pretty quickly if need be, I imagine. Here are some photos from today: https://chrisrewey.widencollective.com/c/iflc0lls The first two are screenshots from the Marketplace ad. I'm interested to know about the plaid upholstery. And the twin long trumpet horns in front of the radiator - were those stock?

Nicely done.

Thanks Ivan! No idea how old the tires were, and there was no manufacture date. I had just gotten the car a few days before ('54 Lincoln Capri convertible) from an estate collection auction of cars owned by the founder of Chick-fil-A. They looked fine to me, but because the car had been in the collection for 30-some years they could have been that old or older. Yes, I've also read that bias plys can be more durable, and inside storage + frequency of use make a difference as well. I was going 35mph, just down the road to the gas station and back. Since probably only a small percentage of old tires fail catastrophically, it's of greater concern if it's happened to you or someone you know. That one experience was enough for me. It was the right rear, and it blew out the wheel pant. I had bookmarked this AACA thread awhile ago - lot of different POVs, but helped me to understand more about pressure and heat https://forums.aaca.org/topic/378582-bias-ply-tire-pressure/

My gratitude and appreciation for all the important guidance from this group, and for making me feel welcome. Had I not posed the dolly question here, I would not have come to the conclusion that trailering is the only way to go with this '47 if I do buy it. Thanks for looking out for me. Photos and a recap when I return later tomorrow. Best, Chris

I marvel at how I've survived all of my poor decisions, at least to date.

Thanks, Ivan, I've gotten hold of a suitable trailer towing vehicle. Even if removing the driveshaft wouldn't be complicated, it would be awkward. I won't have two or three strong backs to push the car up the dolly ramps after the driveshaft is out, which means I'd have to drive it onto the dolly, then jack up the rear, support with jack stands and then take out the driveshaft. And back home, I'd have to do the same thing in reverse. What really decided me, though, are the tires. They are old bias-plys. One bias-ply explosion was enough for me, years ago. Tires are near the top of the list if I get the '47. Now, if the car had a stick and recent-enough DOT dates on the tires, I'd go ahead and dolly it home. The cost of the trailer is only $10/day more than the dolly. As to not forgetting keys, you paint a vivid picture. Something that happened to a friend, I imagine.

You got that right. Seems the older I get (70 now) the more vivid my imagination about what could happen. Thank you.

Love this photo, Los! Yep, scary stupid.

Vintage, pretty tough laws there in CT. Good call, I am going to check MI law. I do plan to get it on my Hagerty policy before picking it up, however. Yes, it will leak fluid out the back if the driveshaft is out and there's nothing pressing against the wiper seal on the back of the trans. Will have to check trans fluid level upon arrival before driving. And as to the flange, I'll confess ignorance about the setup since I don't have a manual yet, and haven't found photos of the likely arrangement. I guess I'll find out when I get there tomorrow.

Good advice, Rich. I am bringing a 3 ton floor jack, a couple jack stands and a creeper. I will bring some PB along with tools, if I do decide the driveshaft removal is a go, when I do return to pick it up. Tomorrow is just a visit and a drive. If the driveshaft looks to be beyond my skill (doesn't take much) I will wait to borrow a bigger vehicle and take a trailer.

I agree with your perspective, Los. Our Toyota Sienna doesn't qualify as adequate to tow both the U-Haul trailer and the car, but it does qualify for the dolly. That said, when I get there and look underneath if it looks too complex I will consider waiting until I can borrow a bigger vehicle that will qualify for the full trailer. Just going to look at it tomorrow. I was already thinking about borrowing a bigger vehicle, because I don't believe the tires have been changed in many years. I have had just one bias-ply explosion of an old tire (before I paid attention to tire age), and it was no fun. That's another reason to trailer instead of dolly. As it is, just to remove the driveshaft I'd have to drive the car onto the dolly, then jack up the back with a 6 ton, put jack stands under it and then remove the driveshaft. Won't have enough people on hand to remove the driveshaft, then push the dead weight car up the ramps onto the dolly.

Thanks for the story behind your slow driving. I'll keep it at or below the speed limit, and stop to check strap tightness periodically. The whole trip is on blue highways so all 55 and below. One should not ever tow a non-running RWD car with a conventional automatic trans with the driveshaft installed. The modern trans requires hydraulic pressure to adequately lube and cool, so the only way to tow with the driveshaft on would be to leave the car running. I used to run a couple trans shops in the early '70's, and in those 8 years we never had to work on a fluid drive. Plenty of Hydra-Matics, Slim Jims, Dynaflows and Powerglides were still on the road, and we'd work on our share. Because fluid drive is a hydraulic coupling where a clutch assembly would normally be, it's possible that running with the driveshaft installed would not be harmful since rearward of that coupler is a regular standard trans that does not require hydraulic pressure for lube or cooling. But, I'm no stranger to acting ignorantly, and prefer being cautious in my elder years. Yep, many years of fun with many old cars. It was good to say goodbye to the 6 remaining favorites, though, because I couldn't admit that having so many cars was just too much for me, and I wouldn't willingly sell them. As a result, I drove them less frequently and felt more guilt than enjoyment. Having had so many cars at a time and knowing it was too much for me, having just one car feels like the way to go. Why a '47 Plymouth? Because I love pre-war cars, and '46 - '48 cars can still be considered pre-war in my mind. And, because my wife sent me the ad while we've been actively looking over the past month. If she likes it, all the better.

Many thanks, Donald! I wouldn't have thought to mark the driveshaft. When you say "the two ends" I'm not quite clear on that. I was imagining that there would be 4 bolts securing the rear of the driveshaft to the differential. What am I missing? Our Toyota Sienna does not qualify as a tow vehicle for a transport trailer, already checked. I've used dollies to transport old cars before, with success. Curious as to why you drove slowly when you dollied your Suburban home. What was your caution? We had a '49 Suburban for a couple years, a wonderful car. At the time, I was too easily smitten by "the next one" and of course, regret having sold it. Here are all the cars we've had over the past 30 years or so: https://chrisrewey.widencollective.com/c/xm9n8vx9 When we relocated from our long-time home in the Madison area to the north woods of WI, I no longer had the luxury of a 40x60 storage building. We found good homes for the remaining 6 cars in the collection, knowing that at some point we'd be able to make room for just one old car. That one car may be this '47 Deluxe sedan, if it is "as advertised." If it is the one, I expect to be a frequent visitor to this forum.

Traveling 2 1/2 hours tomorrow to see a '47 sedan with fluid drive that's been sitting for some time, though reportedly started a few times a year. If we do buy the car, I'd like to haul it back using a U-Haul dolly. I presume I need to remove the driveshaft before transporting, is that correct? If so, anything in particular I should know about removing the driveshaft? Thanks, Chris

This is a great forum, very much enjoying my first few visits. I'm in a lot of other forums for a variety of '30's and '40's cars, but I'll say the P15-D24 is tops. I came here to research a '46 Plymouth club sedan I was interested in pursuing, but couldn't take my eyes off the '49 Suburban in the Classifieds. Showed it to my wife and asked her what she thought. She liked it a lot. Looking forward to learning what I can and enjoying this fine Mopar. Thanks, 46Chris

I got one for Christmas 5 years ago, have never used it. Was a gift from my wife's Grandpa, so it will stay around. I'm sure it's invaluable to someone, just not everyone