Rusty O'Toole

It costs that much for parts for the total job. If you have done an engine swap you know the cost of the engine is only a down payment on the job. You also know that when you have the engine and trans all mounted in place and looking practically finished, you are about half way there. Of course I am talking parts and materials only. If you have to pay someone to do the work it is going to cost a lot more. On the other hand you can do a ring and valve job on a flathead 6 without taking it out of the frame for under $500. That is all most of them need, and a lot of them only need a tuneup. For a beginner with some mechanical aptitude and a few hundred bucks worth of tools, an overhaul or rebuild of a flathead six is about within his reach. Anything more ambitious risks disappointment and heartache and another old car gone to the junkyard.

You are quite right, it is a matter of bang for the buck. In most cases you can repair the old flathead six without taking it out of the car and get reasonable performance, drive around and have some fun. Worst case, it needs a complete rebuild, less than $1000 if you do the work yourself. Or, you can put in a second hand junkyard motor for $2000 and a lot of work. Of course you have to swap out the transmission because the old one won't fit a newer motor. Then you have to change the rear axle because the old one does not have a hand brake, it was on the old tranny you threw away. The rad needs to be changed, the car needs to be converted to 12 volts, new mounts bought or made, etc etc etc. And when you are all done you still have a second hand, junkyard motor not a rebuilt only it cost you a lot more time and money. Go read the agonized threads on this board by guys who listened to the glib advice to "throw away that old klunker flathead and throw in a V8". Maybe you can tell them a quick cheap way to fix their problems, I can't. And the guys who said it was so easy to do an engine swap are never around when the problems crop up. I have done a few engine swaps when I was younger, dumber and had a lot more energy. Now if I want a V8 car, I buy a V8 car. If you like Chrysler products, and I do, all you have to do is move up to 1957 or 58 and you have a car with the best engines in the industry (small block poly or big block wedge) , the best transmission (Torqueflite) and the best suspension (torsion bar). You can swap in your choice of small block or big block Chrysler engines with minimal trouble. So what is the use of messing up an older model?

That was a video I found on Youtube. I just wanted to demonstrate that a flathead Plymouth is not the hopeless hunk of junk your uninformed friends seem to think. There are others on there showing flatheads in action, in various stages of tune.

Friend of mine is a mechanic and MoPar man from way back. He owns a 71 Hemi Challenger he bought new, plus a few other hot MoPars. He has built more racing 440s, Hemis and others than you can count. 2 or 3 years ago he rebuilt a 1941 Canadian Plymouth engine for a customer. He did a sonic test on the block. He told me it had the thickest cylinder walls of any engine he ever tested. Engines back then were made to be bored up to 1/8 oversize as part of normal rebuilds. Some could go even farther. I know the Canadian Dodge and Plymouth sixes had a 3 3/8 bore, but the same block was used in DeSoto and Chrysler with a 3 7/16 bore. If the block casting was the same it suggests the smaller engine can be bored to 3 7/16 + 1/8 or 3 9/16 and still be within factory specs. So, someone is giving you a load of hooey. Don't listen to their **************. Vintage Power Wagons has NOS pistons for $75 a set of 6. Or new replacements for $165. http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/01engine.pdf ................................................................................................. "what sort of modifications would I be able to do to a stock 218? What bore size can I go up to, find pistons for, have any of you done anything like that? " There are lots of things that can be done depending how far you want to go. If you are rebuilding the engine anyway you can bore the engine for more displacement. Mill the head for more compression. Install a hotter cam ($165 from Edgy Edgerton). Install a larger carburetor and a larger exhaust pipe and muffler. These things can be incorporated into a normal rebuild for minimal cost. The result will be a little more power with no outward sign the engine has been modified. If you really want to go wild there are other things you can do like twin carbs, finned aluminum head, headers and/or dual exhausts . Of course you already know the larger Chrysler and DeSoto engines will fit right in your car. But the crankshaft and rods will fit your block. This means if your block is good, and you find a Chrysler or DeSoto 251 or 265 cheap but the block is cracked, you can use the crankshaft and rods in your engine. The secret is Chrysler used just 2 pistons, identical except for size: 3 3/8 for Plymouth and Dodge, 3 7/16 for DeSoto and Chrysler. Then they used different stroke crankshafts for different displacements. They made different length rods to match the crankshaft so they could use standard pistons. There are other details if you really want to get into it. For your purpose I suggest a mild engine, close to stock, with maybe a few extra touches as described above. *Note* the above refers to Canadian made engines, the Detroit made Plymouth and Dodge engines are completely different.

Cheap brake light switches.

Go back and read the original question. "I would like to keep it mopar and would also love to keep it a flathead (my 218 is in pretty rough shape) but I've been told they are pretty gutless. what would you all suggest for an engine. as a general idea I'm not looking for a tire burner just something that's reliable and I can cruise at a good highway pace with. " My answer was keep the original engine and rebuild it. Don't listen to whoever told you they are gutless. A flathead 6 in good condition will do fine. As an addition to the above answer I also told him that if he has a Canadian made Plymouth (the questioner is from Canada) the bigger DeSoto or Chrysler 6 will bolt right in. So if the original 218 is shot, has the rod sticking thru the block etc, he can upgrade to a more powerful 6 very easily. All my answers were based on the original question.

$350 is a good deal if the motor is in good shape. I paid $65 at an auction recently for a similar engine, condition unknown, bidding against 2 scrap merchants so your old engine should be worth $100 or close to it, provided it is rebuildable, the block is not cracked, the rod is not sticking out of the block etc.

From my 1952 Plymouth-Dodge-DeSoto-Chrysler owner's manual: Starting the Engine 1 Depress the clutch pedal to relieve the battery and starter of the extra burden of turning the transmission. 2 Move the gearshift into neutral. 3 Depress the accelerator pedal slowly about half way to open the throttle so fuel can enter the engine combustion chambers. 4 Turn the ignition-switch key to the extreme right (clockwise) to connect the ignition and crank the engine.When the engine starts release the key and it will automatically return to the "on" or driving position. 5 Avoid turning the key to the "Start" position when the engine is running.If you wish to use the radio or other accessories while parked, turn the ignition-switch key to the extreme left hand position. IMPORTANT": "Pumping" the foot accelerator pedal will "flood" the engine and a strong odor of gasoline will be noticeable.If the engine is flooded with fuel , depress the accelerator pedal slowly to the floor so that the throttle will be wide open. Then hold the accelerator pedal in this position , and crank the engine at intervals of about 15 seconds until it starts. ...................... end of quote................................ If you have a hand choke depress the gas pedal slightly to take the pressure off the choke mechanism and pull the choke knob out. You only need to pull it out all the way in real cold weather. In mild weather, just a touch. If the engine is warm you do not need the choke at all. Once the engine starts push the choke in to where the engine will idle down. Let it warm up for a minute and drive away. I like to wait until I see full oil pressure then wait a minute more. Push the choke in as soon as the engine will run smoothly without hesitating when you step on the gas. There is a knack to it, you will learn how much throttle and how much choke your individual car needs in different temps. Just pay attention and notice how the motor responds and what settings allow it to start quickest and run smoothest.

"sprayed INSIDE and OUT with a rubberized undercoating" Might help preserve it but won't the undercoating stink you out when the heater is on?

I didn't say it was impossible, I said it needed a lot of work and thought. I have personally helped install a 318 into a 37 Dodge coupe and a 440 into a 39. Here's a secret, a Chev V8 will fit in with half the work. I could not believe it until I tried, the Chev has way more room than the Chrysler small block. If you want to make it all Chrysler the newer mini starter makes a big difference. The original question was from a guy who was told by some ignoramus that his original motor was too slow and he had to put a V8 in to keep up with traffic. That is **************. He will be a lot better off with the original motor. A lot of decent old cars have ended up in the junkyard because someone tackled an engine swap he couldn't complete, or some other major project.

Hey that looks like the duct I made for my 51 New Yorker. The original was some kind of molded paper mache stapled together. I made a new one out of black cardboard usually used for making interior door panels. It worked fine. I believe Chrysler used a cardboard type material for sound deadening. If someone has a good one they could take it apart and use it to make a mold, and make new ones out of fibreglass. It looks like they all use basically the same duct, Plymouth Dodge DeSoto and Chrysler, just shortened on the shorter cars. The resistor is supposed to get hot but not red hot. It can smell hot too, no harm done. The duct may surprise you, it should last as long as the original did if you don't get it wet. If there is a chance of it getting wet you could paint it or varathane it for protection.

Not sure what you mean by floor braces. Unless you mean body mounts? Or are you thinking of the frame?

1949 was a completely new body, 1948 body dates back to 1941 and possibly 1939. See if you can make mockups of what you want out of construction paper or cardboard. Include all dimensions. A metal shop or fabricating shop can bend them up on their brake. If you can cut out the metal pieces so much the better. I assume you do not have a brake to make the bends. This is if you can't buy the parts you need and have to make them and also assumes the parts are straight bends which they usually are.

Raised letters on a casting ID the casting only for internal use. Info hard to get. Serial number stamped in the block, identifies the engine specifically to model, make, year, size, which plant it was made at and even exactly which car it went in. On a flathead 6 the serial number is stamped on a pad on the left side of the block, at the top, just an inch back from the front of the block. In other words right above the generator. Give us the serial number and we can give you everything but the original owner's shoe size. Measure the length too. Length of motor at the head, either 23 or 25 inches long. Important to ID model and where it was made for parts reference.

Correct carb for your vehicle $250 rebuilt but you must supply a core. http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/03fuel.pdf They may have the right air filter too.

There is a problem putting a V8 or V6 in a pre 1955 Plymouth. The engine compartment is only made for a 6 and is too narrow for a V8 or V6. Steering clearance is the biggest problem. But, the stock engine should do fine and if you really want to go nuts the big Chrysler flathead six will bolt in.

Lots of good info on this thread. Would like to add a couple of thoughts. When working on a car with tight clearance between fan and rad I like to slide a piece of cardboard in between to protect the rad. Making gaskets is easy, you cut them out by laying the paper on the pump and tapping around the edge with a ball peen hammer. There is a special tool for cutting the bolt holes but a hole punch from the stationary store works fine. If you prefer you can cut out the gasket with scissors after marking the paper with the hammer method. You can buy gasket material if you are rich, the rest of us use old cereal boxes. Works just as well and costs nothing.

The carburetor you have is a Carter off a Chrysler or DeSoto about 1953 -54. The last model used with the M6 transmission ( that is what the electrical contacts are for). The black disc is the choke cover. Heat comes up the pipe from the exhaust manifold and slowly releases the choke as the engine warms up. You could rebuild this carb and have automatic choke. But if you want the correct carb with hand choke get in touch with Vintage Power Wagons, they have everything for your vehicle. http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/ You could check if your choke is working by looking down the carb. When it is cold the choke plate should be closed or nearly closed depending how cold it is out. Once the engine is warmed up the choke plate should be completely open. Also, when you start cold, the choke should immediately go part way open then slowly open all the way as it warms up. If the choke is not working correctly that would definitely influence hard starting, not to mention lousing up your gas mileage. Age of the condenser, points, plugs etc should not be significant depending how many miles you put on it. If it is over 5000 miles a tuneup could not hurt. You still may not need any new parts, you can clean and gap the plugs, adjust point gap and check timing. The only part that might fail from sheer age is the condenser.

Take a test drive in an original unrestored 53 Cranbrook.

"If power is getting to coil but no spark, take off the distributor cap and see if it is dry inside. If not, wipe it dry with a clean rag. If ignition wires are wet spray them with WD40 for temporary cure. Also spray the distributor cap after you put it back on. " You are welcome. WD40, diesel fuel or kerosene seems to dry up the moisture if you spray or brush them on the ignition wires and cap. This is the first time I heard of WD40 sucking the water right out of the water pump.

You have been misinformed. The stock engine has plenty of power for all practical purposes. I know guys who rebuilt their engines and planned to install overdrive, different rear axle gears etc. but once they tried a flatty that ran right, they lost all desire to modify their cars. The flathead Chrysler products will continue to run in an advanced state of wear and disrepair. They don't make a lot of noise or fuss about it. This seduces the owner into thinking all is well when the engine is seriously down on power. There is another angle on this. The long stroke engine, with accompanying high torque, does its work easily and will slow down to a walking pace then pull away in high gear. This makes the car easy and pleasant to drive, even though on paper it doesn't have enoug power for a riding lawn mower. So, my first suggestion is to tune up your motor and try it out. If you are not satisfied, do a compression test and take note of the oil pressure. A vacuum gauge can tell you a lot about an engine too. If the engine is worn, do an overhaul or a rebuild as necessary and chances are, you will be happy with your car. You are in luck in another way. In case the stock engine is not powerful enough for you (some people are never satisfied lol) the fact that you have a Canadian car is in your favor. Chrysler of Canada only made one engine in those days, and the engine in your car is in fact a detuned Chrysler. So if you want, you can swap in a Chrysler or DeSoto flathead six of up to 265 cu in and 120HP. If even that is not enough it is possible to hop up the engine and get enough power to burn rubber away from every light. Seriously though, the stock engine will keep up with traffic and cruise at up to 60 with no problems, with a top speed of 85 to 90.

Could be it only leaks under pressure but they usually test under pressure.

Back off the adjustment and try hammering on the drum, hit the flat face do not hit the edge and you won't bend or warp it. You don't need to wail too hard the idea is to vibrate or jar things loose.. Or put an old wheel on and hit the area just outside the wheel bolts, then you can wail on it with a sledge hammer if you like. Then set it down on the tires and try towing it back and forth a few times, or driving back and forth if you are lucky enough that it runs. It should come loose then. Do not hit from the back you will damage something.

Rattle snakes don't shed their rattles, every time they shed their skin they add a new rattle you can tell how old the snake is by the number of rattles or so they say. Good thing the snake wasn't in the skin when you found it. Glad I live in Canada, no rattlesnakes here except the mega rare Mississauga rattler, all you have to worry about is freezing to death.

A Panhard rod or Panhard bar is usually found on cars with coil spring rear suspension like old Buicks from the late 30s to 1959 and Chev pickup trucks from the late 60s and early 70s. Its job is to hold the axle from moving from side to side. On a leaf spring suspension the leaf springs do this job. One exception is some Fords from the 40s had the transverse leaf spring and a Panhard rod in the front. I don't believe Chrysler ever used such a thing before 1978 when they brought out the front drive Omni/ Horizon/ Kcar line with coil sprung rear suspension.