crash survival rates?

[47heaven]

I was trying to find these pics on the internet when this was a "hot topic" a few weeks back. These photos demonstrate the grizzly results of just how cars from the 40's and early 50's panned out in serious collisions. They also clearly demonstrate how the doors would pop open and how the stearing wheel and column would move up.

WARNING: These are from actual police accident photo files of fatal car accident scenes and are very graphic. Look at your own descretion.

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/355432184/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/355432186/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/355432188/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/355432189/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/355432187/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/355432181/sizes/o/

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/351108602/sizes/l/

http://flickr.com/photos/brzy40_2000/351113890/sizes/l/

[PatS....]

Gruesome, sure makes you think.

My original front seat is going into the dumpster in favor of one with a latched back (2 door car), it will be mounted more securely to the floor and it's for sure getting seat/shoulder belts.

I have long been wondering about the steering column, but wanting to retain the Fluid Drive means also retaining the column shift so I'm not sure how to go about engineering a collapsible section in the original column or if a newer one can be adapted to retain the column shift.

It's sure something to think about and do if it's feasible.

You can't prevent everything and what's gonna happen will happen but if a modification can be done during the build stage, I think it should be done.

These pictures point out also that the doors on the old cars don't stay closed like the newer ones.

[Heavy Flat Head]

What a way to start my work day. It kind of makes me think that maybe a set of bear claw latches might not be a bad idea. I am going to use a telescope and tilt colum out of a cad with my plymouth wheel. After seeing these pictures maybe a tilt with air bag would be better. I hate to be a whimp but, alive sounds better even if I have to forgo the plymouth wheel. It is to bad no one has come up with a way to install an air bag in an older wheel.

Air bag to older wheel = big profits.

More thoughts to hurt my brain with.

Ed.

[Norm's Coupe]

Well..........I don't loose any sleep over a cars crash survival rate. I figure if it's my time to go, I'll go in my sleep or in a bad accident. Either way, I can't prevent that.

Here's one I survived with only a couple of slight scratches, busted lip and a few bruises. My wife had 3 fractured ribs and a cut on her knee and foot. Neither of us spent more than a couple of hours in the hospital to get patched up. In fact, they didn't do anything with me. Yet, there isn't a straight piece of metal left on this car. Pickup hit me in the rear doing 50 MPH and shoved me into the car in front of us. We were sitting still when it happened. Neither of us had seat belts on even though the car had seat belts. The back bumper is almost up to the back window, and I broke that steering wheel when I hit it.

Like I tell my wife all the time. If you worry about every little thing, you won't have to worry about getting hurt. You'll worry yourself to death.

[Don Coatney]

I just sent an e-mail to several of you about an unbelievable wreck with a modern car. Sorry but I cannot post it here.

[Oldguy48]

Even though the photo links provided by 47Heaven are horrific accidents, and disturbing to look at, I thank him for posting them. To me it serves as a wake-up call to all of us with vintage vehicles, that are lacking many of the safety features that modern cars have. My feeling is that if you can upgrade to features like seat belts, disc brakes, etc. that can at least lessen the likelihood of fatal or serious injury in the event of a crash, why would you choose to not do it?. Maybe the modification isn't exactly original, but I would prefer to upgrade my vehicle with as much safety equipment as possible. My family and myself will be cruising in my P15 when it is completed, and I shudder to imagine that any of us could meet the same fate as those poor souls in those terrible wrecks.

My mother rolled a 1952 DeSoto...the driver's door popped open, she was thrown out, and was seriously injured. Only by the Grace of God was she not killed. Seat belts would probably have prevented many of her injuries. I believe that our vintage autos were very well engineered, but safety was not a major consideration at that time. Many safety improvements are available for our cars, and I, for one will try to incorporate as many as I can before any of my family members will ride anywhere in my car.

[Norm's Coupe]

I for one do not like seat belts. I've never worn them in any of my modern cars. I did buy a pair of nice retractable shoulder and lap belts to match my new interior for my P15 coupe when I was buying all the parts back in the late 90's. However, the interior is finished now and the seat belts are still in the wrapper in the cabinet. The reason for not putting them in was not to keep the car original.........far from it. The reason was because if I put them in and don't wear them I could get a ticket. However, since the car didn't come with them and I didn't install any, the law says that's ok and I won't get a ticket.

Now, I did upgrade the front brakes to disc brakes.

Don, got that email with the accident pictures. The driver appeared not to be injured. But..........if he had a passenger with him at the time, that person would not have survived that accident with or without seat belts and air bags, based on the condition of the passengers side of the car.

[47heaven]

I knew the photos would be too graphic to just outright post on here, so that's why I left links so you guys could make a decision to see them or not. Like Old Guy 48 mentioned, even though they are horrific, they serve as a important wake up call to what we are driving and what kind of injuries we could obtain having an accident in a car like ours. It wasn't mentioned what the accidents were caused by, but all I know is that they are from Orange County, California. In all actuality, they scare the hell out of me. They make me look at my P15 in a whole new way. I, like many of you, don't have disk brakes or seat belts on the car. Not that I don't want to, but it's just not in the budget at this time. I do drive with caution, but there are many others that don't, and those are the ones I worry about.

[PatS....]

I knew the photos would be too graphic to just outright post on here, so that's why I left links so you guys could make a decision to see them or not. Like Old Guy 48 mentioned, even though they are horrific, they serve as a important wake up call to what we are driving and what kind of injuries we could obtain having an accident in a car like ours. It wasn't mentioned what the accidents were caused by, but all I know is that they are from Orange County, California. In all actuality, they scare the hell out of me. They make me look at my P15 in a whole new way. I, like many of you, don't have disk brakes or seat belts on the car. Not that I don't want to, but it's just not in the budget at this time. I do drive with caution, but there are many others that don't, and those are the ones I worry about.

The fact that those pics were a wake up call is very true, and we should update as many of the safety features as we reasonably can, but we still can't lose sight of the fact that despite the many safety features of modern cars, there are still hundreds of times a day which offer new opportunities for updated pictures similar to the ones posted.

Hundreds of people still die daily in North America in tragic car accidents.

We have to keep things in perspective or we wouldn't leave the house.

[james curl]

I live 25 miles north of Austin,Tx in one of the fastest growing areas in the US and we adverage at least one auto/pick up related crash death every week and one motorcycle death weekly. Most if not all of the car/pick up deaths are in vehicles equiped with air bags and shoulder harness type seat belts. When you hit head on with both vehicles running 70 mph it doesn't much matter how many crush zones the vehicle has, the stop is still sudden.

[wilmot andy]

I 've been a firefighter paramedic now for the past 12 years fulltime, and have seen plenty of crashes. I am more than a little nervous when I will be taking my 46 International truck out for the first time. Small drum brakes, solid column steering wheel, small cab and door latches that look like cabinet latches. I think the top speed is 50, and when it was built it wasn't meant to really do that. People her drive like morons, and more and more have no license, no insurance, and alot can't even speak english with no green card.

[blueskies]

...they serve as a important wake up call to what we are driving...

What is most disturbing to me about all of these crash pictures, is the steering column and wheel. In all of them, the column has turned into a jousting pole. Without a shoulder belt, your odds of surviving even a moderate frontal impact without serious chest and facial injuries are nil.

And even in the back seat, flying forward into the back of the front seat can be just as deadly, as evidenced by one of the vintage crash pictures. The woman victim lies on the floor of the car, and the back of the steel front seat is crushed by her body weight on impact. Had she been wearing a seat belt, she would likely have walked away.

I have three point shoulder belts front and rear in my car, and don't leave the driveway without buckling up.

Here's a good example of what happens to the doors on a 49-52 model plymouth... Pretty minor rollover, but unlikely that the driver stayed in the car. I've seen other vintage crash pictures like these, where the doors popped open, the occupants get partway out of the door, and then the door is slammed shut again by the ground or another object like a tree or guardrail. Not good...

Also, here's the link, again, to a great site on the physics of seat belts and why they are so effective in reducing injuries. I've posted this many times, but it's still a good reminder. Click on the various links in the site to see all of the information and G-force calculations for various crash scenarios.

Pete

[Norm's Coupe]

The doors didn't always pop open in a crash. Take a look at my 64 Chevelle pictures. I had to crawl out the drivers door window because the door wouldn't open after the crash. On the passengers side of the car the door will open and shut. That's even though there is no one piece of straight metal left on the car. As you can see in the one picture, both doors are shut.

[PatS....]

One thing I haven't really paid much attention to is the differences in steering wheels from then to now.

Besides being smaller, mostly because of power steering, they are much more flexible. I can grab a modern wheel rim and move it in and out a couple of inches or more.

The one on the 49 Chrysler is solid as a rock.

Which one would I want my noggin to hit at even 20 mph?

Will I change mine? I don't know yet because it's one of the things I love about the old cars.

Sure makes you think though.

I'm going to look into some street rod aftermarker door latches to see what's involved in updating that part. I really want the doors to stay closed in case of a collision.

Too bad because I really like the sound of the Mopar door closing very unique.

The 49 has the beginings of the manufacturers thinking of safety with the padded dash and the floppy window winders but it still leaves alot undone.

[47heaven]

The doors didn't always pop open in a crash. Take a look at my 64 Chevelle pictures. I had to crawl out the drivers door window because the door wouldn't open after the crash. On the passengers side of the car the door will open and shut. That's even though there is no one piece of straight metal left on the car. As you can see in the one picture' date=' both doors are shut.[/quote']

Yeah, but Norm, by 1964 door latches had come a long way since the 40's and early 50's. I think in 1954, Ford started adding a saftey latch on their doors so they wouldn't fly open and others soon followed. I know that if I don't slam the door tight on my P15, it's not going to latch, and it has flow open on occasion becaise I didn't shut it tight...once entering the freeway...that was scary! Are there things we can buy to make the doors latch shut and stay latched in case of an accident?

[PatS....]

http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/latches_plus.html

http://www.roddingroundtable.com/tech/articles/bearclaw1.html