265 Engine ???

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, just came back from looking at a 265 ci flattie from a combine.

This engine looks in good shape, has the original orange paint, although it's faded, it's not all greasy or oily looking.

It apparently did not use olil when last used, never overheated, had good oil pressure.

It was from around a 1970 or 1972 combine, it has a Mopar alternator on it, it also has the updraft manifold and carb.

I tentatively bought it for a $100.00.

I was wondering if parts were as readily for the 265 as they are for the 251.

I have plans for this engine to go into my 47 Chrys at some point to replace the 218 Canadian long block, that I have now.

Any ideas suggestions, welcomed..........Fred

[Olddaddy]

I'm no expert, but I believe the combines all had 251 engines, but it could be a 265. Tom Langdon at Stovebolt Engine Co can probably tell you how to determine which it is. He has a web page.

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Charlie, if that be the case, I already have a 251 sitting in a 48 Chrysler, but it's seized, and was rebuilt using the Chrysler Method" in 1956, whatever that means.

If the 251 I have was rebuilt once already, can it be done again, even if it's currently seized.........Fred

[Olddaddy]

Well, unless the cylinders are scored too deeply, or the block is cracked it should be possible to rebuild it. I would magnaflux it before spending the money to rebuild it. If the combine engine is a runner I'd go that route. You can turn a 251 into a 265 with a crank and rods, which Tom probably has around his shop.

[55 Fargo]

Well, unless the cylinders are scored too deeply, or the block is cracked it should be possible to rebuild it. I would magnaflux it before spending the money to rebuild it. If the combine engine is a runner I'd go that route. You can turn a 251 into a 265 with a crank and rods, which Tom probably has around his shop.

Thanx again Charlie,

Right now I have a 218 ci Canadian Long Block in my 47 Chrysler coupe, it has a dry clutch and 3 spd trans with a 3.73 rearend.

I have no idea how many miles are on this engine, whether it was rebuilt since it was new in 1951.

Current status of this engine, compression 100 to 110 across the board.

Oil pressure when warm is 40 lbs at an idle, 50 to 55 at highway speed.

This engine does not smoke, or appear to have an oil burning problem, it does however leak like a siev, going through about a quart every 500 miles, most of which is leaking out the rear mainseal or oil pan.

Only other problem with this engine, it has a slight lifter tick.

I am not sure how many miles it can handle, if I can use this engine a while longer or not.

When I started to use this engine, the water jackets were filthy, water tube half plugged.

The valve chamber, had next to no sludge, so maybe thats a good sign.

As I have blathered on about, I am afraid to push this engine too much because I don't know how many miles etc.

I have a 228, longblock from a 1955 Fargo truck, it runs well, water jackets are super clean, was used inthe truck until 3 years ago, when the owner put in a V8. This engine is okay too.

I have a seized 251 with full flow oil filter, vavlve chambers clean, cylinders look good, very little ridge, may or may not be a good candiadte for rebuild.

I also am going to buy the Massey Combine engine, it's either a 251 or a 265, hours unknown, owner says it runs well and does not use oil.

So for now I will use the 218, then decide which route to go, on another engine...............Thanx Fred

[wayfarer]

Just a 'heads up' regarding the planned swap. Recall that the long stroke engines have a thicker crank flange and will test you when you attempt to put all of the 218 parts on the back of a 230-251-265. For whatever reason, the additional material was added to the trans side of the flange and thus moves the flywheel and clutch away from the starter.

[55 Fargo]

Not sure if this applies to the Canadian built engines, or not.

The crank flange on my 218 is an 8 bolt as is the 230 and 251s. Is this the case with the Canadian engines.

I do know that the Canadian 218 was only mated with a dry clutch and 3 spd trans, the 230 and 251s were bolted to a fluid drive clutch usually.

If what you are saying is correct, I may have to rebuilt my 218, when it needs it, as I do not want to run fluid drive again in my Chrysler.

Being the same block, as the 251, I suppose I could use a different crank and rods, or just beef up the 218 with shaving the head, decking the block, maybe a little port and polish, then fitted with dual carbs/exhaust......Fred

[55 Fargo]

On the subject of Canadian engines. Chrysler of Canada began making their own engines in about 1938. But they made only one engine, the 25 1/4 inch long block used in the US in Chryslers and DeSotos only.

In the US they made a shorter, 23 inch long engine for the Dodge and Plymouth.

The big engine in the US, had a 3 7/16" bore. In Canada, they made the 3 7/16" bore model for the Chrysler and DeSoto but they also made a 3 3/8" bore model for Dodge and Plymouth.This was the same block with smaller bore and smaller pistons.

By juggling the bore and stroke, they made a range of engines to match what the US was making. For example, the Canadian Plymouth used a 218 cu in engine from 1942 to 1954. It had a bore and stroke of 3 3/8 by 4 1/16. The American Plymouth also had a 218 cu in engine but it had a bore and stroke of 3 1/4 by 4 3/8.

The biggest version of this engine was the 3 7/16 by 4 3/4, 265 cu in used in 1952-54 Chrysler Windsor, DeSoto, Crown Marine to 1972, Dodge heavy trucks to 1961 and many industrial engines.

There were crankshafts made with 4 1/16, 4 1/4, 4 1/2, and 4 3/4 stroke. With the 3 7/16 bore these gave 225, 237, 251 and 265 cu in. All these were made at one time or another, the 3 7/16X4 1/16 for an industrial engine, the others for DeSoto and Chrysler cars and large Dodge trucks. By large I mean big dump trucks, buses etc not pickup trucks.

There was one exception to the rule of 3 3/8 bore Dodge and Plymouth, 3 7/16 DeSoto and Chrysler I know of. 1940 and 41 Chryslers used a 241 cu in engine combining the small 3 3/8 bore and the 4 1/2 stroke in the long block.

The 3 3/8 bore engine was used with the 4 1/16 crank for the 218 Plymouth and Dodge engine, and with the 4 1/4 stroke crank for the Dodge 228.

Either engine will interchange with the other. My 1951 DeSoto has a 1953 Dodge pickup engine in it right now.

If you wanted you could turn your 218 engine into a 265 by boring it 1/16 and installing the 4 3/4 crankshaft and rods. The blocks are the same, and a 1/16 bore is a piece of cake. They were made to take an overbore of at least 1/8" as part of the normal rebuilds they might need during a normal service life. 1/16 is only .0625".

When changing crankshafts you must use the matching connecting rods. They made different length rods for each application, that way the same pistons could be used with any crankshaft.

The 4 3/4 stroke crank has rods that measure 7 3/4" center to center.The 4 1/2" stroke crank uses 7 7/8" rods. The 4 1/4 crank uses 8" rods. The others are made in proportion, the rod being 1/8 shorter for each 1/4 increase in stroke.

The 4 3/4 stroke engine also had unusual looking rod bolts, the head is like a nail head. I believe they made these small headed bolts for crankcase clearance.

One other change they made was to add a full flow oil filter to the 1952-54 Chryslers. You can tell this model instantly by the cast aluminum tower oil filter. The other models used a bypass filter that consisted of a cannister connected to the block by 2 small metal pipes. You cannot convert an older engine to full flow oil filter because the block castings are different.

The full flow oil filter was also used on some industrial engines and truck engines.

You can usually indentify an engine by the serial number. But when in doubt there is an easy way to check the stroke. On the #6 cylinder there is a plug, by unscrewing this plug you can drop a wire or small metal rod into the cylinder and measure the stroke directly by turning the engine over carefully. This hole was provided to make it easy to find top dead center for tuning purposes.

As for cruising speeds. When new the Plymouth had a top speed of 85 to 90 MPH, the heavy models 90 to 95. All would cruise comfortably at 55 or 60, but could do 70 or 80 if you wanted to push them.

Today out of respect for the car's age I would keep the speed down to 55 or 60. But if you rebuild the engine with new pistons, rings, bearings, oil pump etc. and especially if you have the moving parts balanced, and use synthetic oil then cruising at 70 to 80 should be no problem.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (07/08/07 09:56 PM)

[55 Fargo]

Was just playing with my 251 ci it has a 3 C38S, which is out of a 1946 to 1948 Chrysler Royal.

I has full oil filtration.

The valve chambers had some dirt in there but no sludge, the cylinders are not scored, the head is off, there is no cylinder ridge at all.

The number stamped into the top of the piston are #1613996, no other stamp to indicate .020, .040, 0.60, so I am going to assume these are stock pistons, the bore is 3 7/16.

The water tube is rusted in badly, water passages pretty rused up, hope the block isn't cracked.

This maybe my best candiate for rebuld, as it appears to have minimal cyl wear, and full oil filtration, and is alo the right 3 of engine for my 47 Chrysler...............Fred

[Jim Yergin]

Fred,

On the short block 218 versus the short block 230, the difference in the crankshaft length is compensated for in the flywheel used with the longer crank. If the same is true for the Canadian long block engines then I don't think you would be limited to using your existing three speed transmission with only your 218 so long as you have the correct flywheel for the 251.

Jim Yergin

[55 Fargo]

Canadian engines do not have this crank flange difference according to my sources, but who knows, stranger things have happend.

All Canadian blocks are the same size, design etc, they are the 25 1/4 inch blocks, they had different bores and strokes, to create the 218,230,251,265, but the block was all the same, so you can make a 265 out of the 218 block, by boring and then using the 265 crank and rods, what a versatile engine.

The industrial engines, also had hardened cylinders, so I have read on another forum..................Thanx Fred

[B-Watson]

Canadian engines do not have this crank flange difference according to my sources, but who knows, stranger things have happend.

All Canadian blocks are the same size, design etc, they are the 25 1/4 inch blocks, they had different bores and strokes, to create the 218,230,251,265, but the block was all the same, so you can make a 265 out of the 218 block, by boring and then using the 265 crank and rods, what a versatile engine.

The industrial engines, also had hardened cylinders, so I have read on another forum..................Thanx Fred

The "230" should be 228, as far as the 25" block goes. Add to the list 236 and 241, used by DeSoto and Chrysler before the 251/265.

Bill

Vancouver, BC