Disc brakes for the 49 Dodge

[John Burke]

Following a lead, from this forum, I checked with "Scarebird" on ebay and found a disc brake kit for Dodge cars. It was priced at 185.00 + some shipping . That would bring it to about $200.00. You would need to add a pair of 74-75 Dart rotors, Bout $45.00 each from Car Quest and a pair of 70-74 Challanger calipers costing about 27.00 each for a total of about $350.00 according to my caculations. Sounds like a good deal to me. I am waiting to hear back from them as to whether there is anything else I would need to buy....John Burke

[Norm's Coupe]

That puts you up to about $550. Add to that the residual valves and brake hoses and your right up to what the complete kit cost from ECI that includes everything except the master cylinder, if you want to change that.

[John Burke]

I was wondering where you came up with $550.00?...My addition says.....

Kit w/postage..........200.00

1 pr rotors...............,90.00

2 calipers.................52.00

Total......................$342.00 or am I missing something...I already have a firewall mounted, dual resivor master cylinder with a swing pedal

[Norm's Coupe]

Since you already have the modern master cylinder on the firewall you wouldn't need the residual valves.

Thought from your first post it was $200 plus the $342, so that's how I came up with the approximately $550. However, you'll still need to add pads to the $342, plus the brake hoses. In addition, do the rotors for $90 come with the bearings? If not you also have to add that cost.

[John Burke]

Since you already have the modern master cylinder on the firewall you wouldn't need the residual valves.

Thought from your first post it was $200 plus the $342' date=' so that's how I came up with the approximately $550. However, you'll still need to add pads to the $342, plus the brake hoses. In addition, do the rotors for $90 come with the bearings? If not you also have to add that cost.[/quote']

The rotors mount on stock hubs which already have newer bearings in them....You do have to knock the old brake drums off. I'm sure there will be some other stuff involved....John

[Norm's Coupe]

Ok, guess that would save some money. As for the ECI kit and the others out there, it will usually run you about $550 to $700 for everything, so if you can do it for about $400 to $450 with everything, I'd say thats a deal. Just a little more work involved doing it, thats all.

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, if I buy the Scarebird kit, then buy the calipers, pads, rotors, I have new hoses, I will still need residual valves. In Canada, this will be a fair bit more, rotors are $!00.00 or so a pair, the Calipers are the same, the residual valves may have to be ordered in from the USA, then pads, about $30 to $40. Plus the shipping and taxes for the Scarebird Kit,this would bring me over the $500.00 mark, I could buy the ECI kit, all inclusive for $575 plus tax and shipping, the tax is for the Canadian governmnet, oh plus brokerage fees for the importing to Canada.

The Scarebird kit is attractive, as it works with stock rims, no drilling and tapping, and the price is decent.

Now which residual valvesdo I need, which goes to what end of the car, how much are they.

What about the hub piece that the rims bolt on too, who supplies that and how much?...........Fred

[Norm's Coupe]

Fred,

You may still need new hoses for the disc brakes. I had new hoses on my coupe before the switch. However, I needed a different type fitting for the calipers so had to buy new hoses anyway.

When using the stock MC in it's stock position under the floor you need a 2 lb. and a 10 lb. residual valve. The range about $20 to $30 each. Actually, without looking up the instructions again I believe the 10 lb goes to the rear and the 2 lb to the front. Maybe someone will pop in and correct me if thats wrong.

[55 Fargo]

Norm, what about the hubs for the rims to bolt to, does Scarebird supply this, as this is need in order to complete this job.

How long did it take for you to do the complete conversion job, a weekend or a good day................Fred ps apparently the stock hose will work with the mopar calipers, but they advise people to buy new hoses

[Norm's Coupe]

Fred,

I don't know if Scarebird supplies the hubs. Sounds like you use your old hubs as John described in his original post.

When it comes to the hubs I can only speak for the ECI kit since that's the one I have. With it, you get the hubs and install them on the axle just like you would the brake drum with the hub in it. Then the ECI kit uses the rear rotors from the 79/80 Firebird and Camero. The rotor slides over ECI's hub. It stays loose until you tighten the lug nuts down and that's what holds it all together. It does sound like the Scarebird kit works the same way to me, but you'd have to check with John or someone else to be sure.

[55 Fargo]

Hi Norm, I can see using the OEM spindles that the rotor slides onto with a new bearing, but some kind of new hub would have to be used, how can the old one be used, it's a brake drum, that the rim bolts onto, unless I'm confused...........Fred

[55 Fargo]

Shel, should the brakes and spindles not be the same with the 46 to 48 , as is the 49 to 54. All wheel cyls and other parts are the same throughout these years, not sure why these would be different.

On my 47 Chrysler, I have 1951 Plymouth front end parts, spindles, brakes etc...........Fred ps I did not do that someone else did, it all bolted in.

[David Muma]

You might also like to check out the following site...

http://home.wi.rr.com/dndrodshop/disc.htm

[Norm's Coupe]

Fred,

Here's what I get when reading John's post about using his old hubs. The original drums and hubs are actually two different parts. If you look closely at the original brake drum you will see rivets holding the drum part to the hub. Sounds like you drill out those rivets and remove the drum portion, leaving you just the hub section. That's how you use the original hubs with Scarebirds kits I guess. Like I said before, I've never looked at the Scarebird kit so I can't be sure what I said is right or wrong. If I'm correct though, it's basically the same as when you use the ECI kit, only ECI supplies the hub for you so you don't need to modify the old brake drums.

[55 Fargo]

The scarebird kit will not fit a 1941 to 1948 Mopar, which has a 4 bolt system, the 1949 has a 5 bolt system for the adaptor plate to go on, too bad, seems like a good kit to go with..................Fred

[james curl]

What are you talking about? The adapter plate bolts to the spindle and 46-48 Plymouths only have three mounting holes in the spindle.

[55 Fargo]

James have a look in the pics, there are 5 holes in the adaptor plates for 1949 to 1954 Mopar brake systems, at least this is what I was told.

Maybe this can work, but the Mark at Scarebird said it would not...............Fred

[Andydodge]

This will help........my 1940 Dodge uses 1962 Australian Chrysler Royal stub axles with 1962 kingpins.......and B4 someone says they didn't use kingpins that late, they did in Oz, and the Oz stub axle is IDENTICAL to the 1946-1956 US Dodge/Plymouth stub axle, it used the twin leading shoe brakes which means it has the large boss above the kingpin to hold the adjuster nut, so that US disc brake kit which uses this nut to hold the caliper bracket can be used on 1940 onwards if you swap your 1940-42 stub axles for the later stub axle, they bolt, well kingpin straight on, the only possible hiccup might be that you may have to mix and match your steering arms that bolt on the bottom 2 stub axles bolt holes with either the original or donor stub axle arms.......andyd

[Andydodge]

These Scarebird adapters use the THREE bosses that all 46-56 Plymouth/dodges stub axles have, 2 on the bottom, one on the top, now I'm not familar with this kit but it has the exact same bolt head problem that I found when I adapted my discs 33yrs ago, he has had to machine the bolt heads very thin as there isn't any clearance between the caliper mounts and the inside face of the disc rotor, but mine is o/k still.......what I would do is to enlarge the actual caliper bracket areas where the bolts are on the stub axle or as I did make the whole bracket a large circle, cut a hole for the stub axle to fit thru and there is no possibility of the bracket wobbling.........looks like I'll have to get some pics.......andyd

[PatS....]

Charlies kit uses GM calipers, Volare rotors, comes with everything you need, is simple as hell and very reasonably priced. The only work needed is to drill and tap 3 holes and for $20 bucks, he'll do it for you.

Simple and cheap...what more can you ask for?

www.rustyhope.com

[james curl]

Three holes per spindle and enlarge the holes in the steering arm for the larger bolts. I believe he charges extra to enlarge the two holes in the two steering arms plus you have to pay postage to ship them to him and wait for him to do and return.

[james curl]

I also have a set of 41 spindles which have the two bottom holes in much the same location as the 46-48 but they have two upper holes very close to the top of the stub axel. Adapter for these would require a 6 bolt adapter, four for the spindle and two for the caliper. I also have a 51 Dodge chassis which has spindles that look just like my 48 Plymouth spindles.

[Paul Beard]

Anyone wanting to convert to disc brakes should contact AAJ Brakes he specializes in MOPAR only and has both front and rear disc setups. I installed his ftont disc setup on my "53" Dodge truck and it works perfectly. I am still using the stock master cyl. and I was told that the orig. MC has a one way valve so you do not need residual valves unless you change MC's the only item I put on my truck is a proportioning valve so rear brakes will lock up before the front. I also have a newer rear axle but still have drum brakes on the rear and have had no problem with them.

[1950DodgeC]

Paul,

Did you have a noticeable difference when you converted from drum to disc? Is there a reason why you did not upgrade the master cylinder to one with a booster? I plan on doing the conversion but I am not sure if I want to keep my original Master Cylinder or get one with a booster. Any recommendations?

[Guest Storekeep60]

John,

I spent 2 1/2 months engineering a disc brake conversion for my '49 Dodge Meadowbrook last summer... When it came time to have my brackets made, I had trouble getting anyone local to cut them (they didn't want the liability)..

When I got started, I checked out all the "kits" that were available, and even spoke with Mark at Scarebird. They were just starting to make a kit for the late 40s Dodge/Plymouths.

So, I gave Mark a call to see where they were, and what parts they were using. Both designs (theirs and mine) were bolt on, not welding, grinding, tapping, etc, and used 70-74 Challenger calipers and pads. - Their setup called for mid 70s Mopar rotor/hubs and bearings, while my design used the original Dodge hubs (11" drums) with the drum knocked off and a 2002 Jeep Wrangler vented rotor mounted over the studs, like a modern car.

I ordered their bracket kit and received it within the week. I spent Labor Day weekend putting my car back together. With their setup, you will receive machined bolts, brackets, bearing adapters and instructions. Everything else is available through your local auto parts store.

When I put my bracket template up to theirs, it was nearly exact. The only difference was the area that follows the spindle/steering knuckle area. Their follows the shape, while mine was more of an arch. So, their was prettier and looked more OEM... Nice attention to detail if you ask me.

The only modifications I had to make on their kit was to grind .050 off each side of the caliper opening on the brackets. - Not a big deal. I then painted the brackets and mounted them up.

Here are a couple of things for you to know.

There are 3 brake/spindle sizes used in 1949. Make sure you measure the distance from the top mounting hole to each bottom hole. Give these to Scarebird when you order so that you get the correct size brackets.

I've run across two styles of drums on the '49 and '50 Mopars. Some use wheel studs in the hub and drum, while the other style uses bolts that screw into the drum to hold the wheel on. If you have the latter, you can't use the "top hat" design that I came up with unless you get your hands on a drum/hub setup that has studs in it.

Don't forget to adjust your steering linkage. Each bracket is 1/4" thick and mounts between the knucklet and steering arm, so you need to shorten your steering rods by 1/4". I was able to loosen the nuts and turn mine in to adjust. - Get an alignment done after this to make sure you have it right and don't wear/drag your tires.

------------

As of this time, I am still using my OEM master cylinder and haven't added any proportioning valves or anything else. The '49 Dodge stops just fine, but I am looking for ways to replace my OEM master with a split/dual chamber system for safety. - I want to mount it in the original location though.

The other thing I noticed was an improvement in my fuel economy. My first road trip showed a 21 mpg rating... vs. 18-19 before. This confirmed my belief that my front drums were dragging (and leaking).

Hope my information helps.... I certainly an pleased with the Scarebird product.

AAJ also offers a really good product. You will need to tap your mounting holes though, and their brackets are thicker, so you may have to trim a little off of your steering linkages to get the adjustments right. I would recommend them as well.