Engine ID

[DMack48can]

I am a new member working on a 1948 Dodge 1/2 ton. The motor was seized so I purchased a used one. I need help identifying it. It is a 25.25 Canadian Long block. Serial # is T 307 18107C, Build date is E 23 2. Head casting #s are E 202 and 1327337. I know that the T 307 shows it is Canadian as well as the C on the end. Can anyone Help with the year it is and what the displacement? 

[55 Fargo]

Hi here is an extensive listing for many Mopar Flathead 6 cylinder engines.

I unfortunately did not find your number in this.

I would say it is a 228, but it could be a 218, 228, or 237, don't think it would be a 251, those came later in Canadian built trucks.

I would PM Bill Watson on this board, He is an expert historian on Mopars, and will surely have your answer....

 

http://www.t137.com/registry/help/otherengines/otherengines.php

[DMack48can]

^{Another thing to add to this is that it is a 3 7/16 bore. I read one of Bills posts that T307 is the same as T306 except that it is the 25.25 Canadian equivalent. Don}

[55 Fargo]

3 7/16 bore, sounds like a 228...

[austinsailor]

Usually people can pull the plug over piston #6 and measure the stroke, but the bore is unknown. If you really do know the bore, pull that plug, use a thin screwdriver or stiff wire and measure the stroke. Then you'll know it all.

I am curious, though, how you determined the bore. I might learn something here.

Gene

[DMack48can]

• had the machine shop mike a piston

[DMack48can]

from what I can gather this is 51-53 flathead

[55 Fargo]

you could get a 251/265 crank and rods if you so choose. Our Canadian engines have a lot of variation. good luck, still think you have a 228 though...

[NiftyFifty]

There is no 228 long block is there? I've got 2 trucks, 50 and a 51 and they were 218's and the combine engines "industrial" we're mostly all 251/265. I've never come across a 228 in the 47-51's I've run into, but honestly you need to pull the engine apart likely anyway so measure the bore and stroke and you'll know for sure. Don't order anything until you know and you need to pop a piston unless your ordering both new, my 251 came with 3 ring pistons, that made for a challenge and lead to needing new pistons.... I ordered before complete tear down

[DMack48can]

this may be a 53 -56 230 ?

[NiftyFifty]

Very few 230 long blocks, but now that I think about it i think my 51 is a 230, but I have a spare 218 industrial complete engine as well... I got it when I bought my 251.... Too many flatties around the yard

[DMack48can]

Thanks for the help as my search goes on...............

[NiftyFifty]

As I said, best way to size is to strip it, that way you know what you have anyway.... You could open up and find a pitted up crank or cyls or even the coolant tube rusted out and then your pooched

[55 Fargo]

Very few 230 long blocks, but now that I think about it i think my 51 is a 230, but I have a spare 218 industrial complete engine as well... I got it when I bought my 251.... Too many flatties around the yard

Which 230 long blocks?

There were plenty of 228 long blocks in Dodge/Fargo trucks, Dodge cars, and later Plym cars.

Or was there a 230, 25 inch Canadian built engine too? Oh are you thinking it was a 230 long block, the Canadian equivalent to the US 230, is the 228.

Maybe Bill Watson will chime in and He will be able to let us know what engines there are for Canada.

You are right though, tear down and measurement is the only way to tell, as many of these engines were rebuilt, and changed around over the past 77 years they have been pumpin them out iin Windsor Ontario....

Edited January 17, 2014 by Fargos-Go-Far

[NiftyFifty]

The 228 is pre pilot house cab no? I thought all the later canadian trucks were 218 or the larger trucks got 265's and cars were short block 230's?

[55 Fargo]

The 228 is pre pilot house cab no? I thought all the later canadian trucks were 218 or the larger trucks got 265's and cars were short block 230's?

Hi 4mula-dix, never heard of  a 230 Canadian built long engine to be honest. My truck is a 251 factory for 55 and 56, some 54 and 55s were 228...PS gotta talk some day about your T5 conversion, mind you I am running a 3.23 diff now, would not work well with the od part of a T5, even as flat as it is here....

[B-Watson]

T-307 -

Used in Canadian-built 1951-52 Dodge Truck DG-1 and Fargo Truck FO-1 as well as 1953 Dodge Truck DH-1 and Fargo Truck FP-1, all ½-ton models on a 108" wheelbase.   25" block, 3.375" bore and 4.062" stroke, for 218.1 cid.   Had a 6.7:1 compression ratio and put out 97 bhp at 3200 rpm.   Torque was 174 ft.lbs at 1200 rpm.   

 

The 218.1-cid engine was replaced by the 228.1-cid engine (T-335) for 1954, just as it had been in the Canadian-built Plymouth and Dodge cars in mid-1953.  And the 228.1 was replaced by the 250.6-cid engine for 1955, although it remained T-335.  Canadian-built 1955 Plymouths and Dodges used the 228.1 engine with the manual transmission and 250.6 with Powerflite.  After 1955 Chrysler of Canada only had the 250.6-cid engine in cars and trucks.

 

25" block engines with a 3.375" bore include - 201.3, 218.1, 228.1.and 241.5.

 

25" block engines with a 3.438" bore include - 236.6, 250.6, and 264.5.

 

23" block engines with a 3.25" bore include - 217.8 and 230.6 while the 3.125" bore included 189.8 and 201.3.

 

No Canadian-built car or truck used the 23" block after the Canadian engine plant opened in 1938.  Prior to that Canadian-built Chryco cars and trucks used engines imported from Detroit and were the same as used in US-built cars and trucks.  Imported mid-1938 through 1959 Plymouths and Dodges came with 23" block engines, but not Canadian-built cars and trucks.

Edited January 19, 2014 by B-Watson

[55 Fargo]

T-307 -

Used in Canadian-built 1951-52 Dodge Truck DG-1 and Fargo Truck FO-1 as well as 1953 Dodge Truck DH-1 and Fargo Truck FP-1, all ½-ton models on a 108" wheelbase.   25" block, 3.375" bore and 4.062" stroke, for 218.1 cid.   Had a 6.7:1 compression ratio and put out 97 bhp at 3200 rpm.   Torque was 174 ft.lbs at 1200 rpm.   

 

The 218.1-cid engine was replaced by the 228.1-cid engine (T-335) for 1954, just as it had been in the Canadian-built Plymouth and Dodge cars in mid-1953.  And the 228.1 was replaced by the 250.6-cid engine for 1955, although it remained T-335.  Canadian-built 1955 Plymouths and Dodges used the 228.1 engine with the manual transmission and 250.6 with Powerflite.  After 1955 Chrysler of Canada only had the 250.6-cid engine in cars and trucks.

 

25" block engines with a 3.375" bore include - 201.3, 218.1, 228.1.and 241.5.

 

25" block engines with a 3.438" bore include - 236.6, 250.6, and 264.5.

 

23" block engines with a 3.25" bore include - 217.8 and 230.6 while the 3.125" bore included 189.8 and 201.3.

 

No Canadian-built car or truck used the 23" block after the Canadian engine plant opened in 1938.  Prior to that Canadian-built Chryco cars and trucks used engines imported from Detroit and were the same as used in US-built cars and trucks.  Imported mid-1938 through 1959 Plymouths and Dodges came with 23" block engines, but not Canadian-built cars and trucks.

thanx Bill, very informative, all the best.............

[DMack48can]

To B-Watson thanks ever so much with all the info . I find out tomorrow if I bought a good engine or I will be searching. Fingers crossed and thanks for your help. Don

[DMack48can]

To all concerned it turned out that this T307 block is no good and now looking at repairing the original. The serial number is D19S2996C, the block is 25.25 and 3 3/8 bore. It is some what seized therefore it may be impossible. Can anyone give a year and displacement and any idea to loosen her up. I understand that this is a Canadian long block car engine? Any thoughts appreciated.

[55 Fargo]

D19 is a 25 inch 218, 1940-41 Dodge

[austinsailor]

You will probably have to disassemble it anyway, so take off the head and pan, remove as many rods and pistons as you can.  Then soak the remaining one (s). Drive them up or down as you can. Move it a bit up, then down, or drive it all the way out if possible.

 

All the ones I've done have had only one or maybe a couple pistons stuck.  If it's stuck very bad at all it'll be difficult to get the pistons to go up and down like they should by just turning on the crankshaft ends.

 

Chances are if one is rusted bad you'll need to sleeve it anyway. 

 

You can usually get the crank out even if a piston or two is stuck. Then it'll be much easier to get the remaining ones out.

 

I should say, though, that you wouldn't be making a mistake to gently try to get it loose before tearing it down. I bought a t bucket last spring that had been sitting for 13 years. Seemed pretty stuck.  I put a lot of PB blaster in each cylinder, then kept trying the crank both ways with a breaker bar. After about 2 days I got a bit of movement, kept up and got it to turn over.  Got it running, runs great, fast, powerful, no oil burning. So there is hope.

 

Gene

[55 Fargo]

What is wrong with the T307 engine?

You can fill cyls with ATF and diesel, penetrating oil of some kind, let sit and soak. Is a piston stuck, or a valve?

Being in Canada, you can use any 25 inch L head 6 engine within reason, not like American Made engines, where your truck would have had the short engine, thus needing that as a replacement or modifying to a long block engine. Hey you might find a 251 or even an Industrial 265,ready to use, the later engines have more HP too, not a whole lot but more. The D19 218 might be in the neighbourhood of 95 hp, while a later 251 or 265 could be 120-125 hp, that is a nice difference....good luck

[DMack48can]

_{The T307 has two six inch cracks in the side of the block which pushed out unevenly when the block froze. Internals aregood so will have spare parts . My d19 is the one that is seized so will have to tear it down and see if it can be salvaged.}

[55 Fargo]

Or find a good running engine if you can, might be a possibility too...