3046moparcoupe

Eneto, you can trust Ed to speak the truth, he doesn't speak out unless he's for sure,...and he knows the P15 cars well....so we both learned something here....thanks again Ed,.. Ed, yeppurs, I just got back from Oreilley's, and it was a toss up, between the new Wd-40 professional, the old faithful PB -Blaster, and another I'd never seen before, free up Rust, or something like that,...anyway - I went with the PB Blaster, I've used it before (course they probably pretty much all got the same stuff in em), anyway - here we go....and you are correct, (I didn't know this, Plymouthy taught me this a few weeks back), motor with permanent magnents, swap the input power polarity, motor changes direction,......motor with field coils, swap the input power polarity motor doesn't change directions, you have to reverse the wiring at the field coils,...but in regards to that, I just noticed something this morning about the 6ea motors I have,....4ea RH and 2ea LH,....the LH motors are a bit smaller in physical size, the blower box/core/etc on the LH size is also a bit smaller than the RH side,....(not that a RH motor wouldn't bolt up to the smaller core box, but I did wonder if the slightly larger motor might draw a few more amps, etc...anyway - since I've got both I'm gonna try to go back with the smaller motor on the LH side and the larger on the RH side, the way it appears Mopar did it......so far I was able to g et a cage off of one of each flavor motor, so I took both of them over to Randy at fort Worth Starter and Generator,...to go through them,...he said he'd go completely through them, put new wires on , new grommets, etc...so we'll see....they've been there forever and have 100% positive reviews, and they've always been super reasonable and done great work for me, so I may just get all these motors done depending on how pricey it turns out to be... Oil Soup, I'd sure like to get new heater cores, even though these I have aren't stopped up, and they look clean, how close are they to having pin holes, etc...on the inside ?....I just wouldn't think there'yd be a snowballs chance in finding a core that would exit and enter through the firewall where it needed to work with these boxes without a lot of modification,....I guess you can't have your cake and eat it to ,..huh ? I'll do some research on the cores available and see what I can find...thank you for the input..

Eneto, yes you are correct. On this dual heater setup one faceplate reads Comfort Master and the other reads Mopar Model 54. A year or so back I also purchased a spare dual heater/fresh air box assembly off ebay that was a match for this one, ( face plates read the same thing), when it arrived it had a tag on it that said it had been removed from a 1941 Dodge. Last week, I picked up a single heater unit from a fellow over in Plano. he said it came out of a P15 Coupe that he used to own. Anyway, it's the larger heater box that has the doorway for the heater to vent cable control and the 2ea outlets for your 2inch defrost vent hoses.....being just a single unit it just reads comfort master on the faceplate....but all these I have and have seen are identical in that, the outer oval shaped box that your blower motor squirrel cage stabs into, is screwed together,..but the inner duct - inside the oval shaped box that routes the air, is spot welded into the interior of the oval box, (hope that makes sense).. I would agree with you, I does sound like you have a heater from an older yr model. I believe the standard single heater unit for a P15 would be just like the larger unit on the left side of the picture I attached here. and it would mount to the interior firewall on the passenger side. Maybe someone with more experience here on the forum will comment and post as to whether we are thinking correctly here, but from what I've seen - I believe this is correct. Steve

Built our new wiring harness and have it coming through the firewall laying in the floor of the cab. Figured I better get the fresh air box back in place, and all the switches and gauges mounted up before I selected my harness route and started making 2nd end wire cuts and crimps. I've got more hours than I probably should have put into this fresh air box/heater assembly, originally mine was spot welded together in places and screwed together in others. I drilled pilot holes and used steel rivets where the parts were originally spot welded...(which allowed me to paint 100% of each part prior to assembly). I guess this method has offered up some success, but the way this all sandwiches together, it's a bit dis-heartening to watch your paint get knocked off as many of the parts are too tight a fit due to the paint being there....anyway - pound to fit and then paint to match with your touch up brush ( I used high temp rattle can engine enamel on this, and I've found when I need touch up, if I'll spray some in a cup and let it sit for a bit, to let the carrier solvent evaporate away, you can then brush it on to touch up - with better results and coverage.) Wanted to ask you guys with the experience out there,....about my blower motors. This old P15 club coupe had the dual heater cores and blower setup in it....(I've come to believe since working on the car that someone added the second blower.duct/etc....I don't believe it came from the factory this way),....anyway - my plan has been to leave it the way it was and go back with the dual heaters.. My original fresh air box was badly eaten up, so I purchased a spare dual assembly I found on ebay and had lots of parts to work with...took the cleanest of whatever and started working to go back with it. Ended up with 2 heater cores that don't leak and are way cleaner than what I took out of our car, and now have a total of 6ea blower motors. Not too long ago, someone shared with me, (and it makes sense if you think about it), in the dual heater assembly setup, you have a blower motor that turns left hand and a blower motor that turns right hand. Out of these 6 motors, 4ea are RH and 2ea are LH, and the corresponding fan cages also have the slots pointing in opposing directions when you compare a LH to a RH...However when you look at the offset allen screw that attaches the cage to the shaft, it appears that the same squirrel cage is used for both, it's just turned 180 degrees one way or the other when installed....THAT LEADS ME TO MY QUESTION I WAS HOPING TO FURTHER MY EDUCATION ON HERE ON THE FORUM,....So far I've only been able to get one of these squirrel cages off without destroying it, and on that one I took a pair of pliers and held the shaft near the motor, grabbed the cage with my free hand and slowly began twisting it,...magic !! it came right off (course I'd already removed the allen screw),...tried it again on motor #2, and no dice,....even pulled the gorilla tape off my channel lock pliers to get a bit more bite on the shaft and still no luck,....at that point, since I had six of these cages, I cut the cage off the motor shaft. A bit easier said than done, actually I used by hand grinder and a thin cut off disc and slowly ground the wheel hub off. I used my fingers on the motor shaft as a heat sink and thermometer to tell me when to stop grinding as when I would feel any increase in temp on the shaft at my fingers I would stop and wait a few minutes to let the shaft cool back down, and go again, etc, etc...until I got the hub off the shaft... Anyone out there got any tricks on how to get these squirrel cages off the motor shafts without botching things up ? Also, (and this is something is respect to what I just learned from Plymouthy Adams here a few weeks back),...since these heater blower motors appear to be built with field coils, the internal wiring leads should be able to be reversed, changing the rotation direction of the motor, which would allow a RH motor to become a LH fairly easily... So if I could get these cages off the motor shafts, then go through the motors, and select the best two motors, revers the leads if necessary to make one LH rotation, and then install the squirrel cages clocked either for a LH or a RH rotation,...I should be good to go ?? I THINK Actually, I'd like to get all these motors in as good a shape as possible for future use for me or someone. I'm finding 6v motors out there, but there all for Chevy or Ford. There may be other differences as well, but just at a glance I can see that the shafts don't look near long enough for our mopar stuff. All these motors spin. I tested them today using a 6v lantern battery. Some better than others. I took the bottom cap off two and had quite a bit of fun figuring out how to get the brushes back in place and the caps back on, but finally I managed to accomplish it..once I got the cage off a motor and I had the end cap off as well, I would have though that I could push the armateur out the bottom of the motor but it would not come out. I was hoping I could get to the top bearing, anyone out there know ? do you have to drill those little rivets out to get it to separate ? I wish the parts book showed something on the heater assembly, the shop manual has an overview but nothing detailed..

Just wanted to add a final note to this post as maybe it will help someone out someday. The Gardner bender Butt (bullet connectors) I show pictured in my last (the previous) reply to this post,..are a perfect fit for the headlight switch barrels on the P15 headlight switch. They don't come with the nice adhesive heat shrink built onto them like a marine connector, but the fit of the bullet into the barrel is perfect. I also ordered some marine grade bullet connectors (with the nice heat shrink), that were listed as the smaller size bullet, that should also fit into the barrel on the headlight switch, but they are a bit too large, so to use them your gonna have to spread your outer ring on the switch out a bit,... These Gardner Bender Bullet connectors are available at Home Depot. I just removed the hard yellow plastic from the connector - crimped it up, and used some good heat shrink around it. The part numbers are as follows: pp# 15-163p , desc: Bullet Splice .156" dia. 14-16 awg cost $1.96, gets you 5ea males and 5ea females pp# 15-162p, desc: " " " " 10-12 awg " " " " I also found these same Gardner Bender connectors on ebay, but they've jacked the price up to something like $15 for 10 connectors...(but of course - you get free shipping Steve

I agree with the pounding thing, that's why using the hole punch pliers with a washer, to press against the rivet head and the opposing round area of the brass contact seemed like a good choice, as it limited the force being applied to only the brass /metal areas....also thought about mixing up a small dab of epoxy,...(if I can get it clean enough for the stuff to try and stick),... should help re-enforce,...definitely a wise suggestion on holding the terminal brackets with some needle nose pliers to relieve the stress of the screwdriver....thxs for the input guys..

I just went through this dash light switch, cleaned it up, greased it, painted the exterior, and today was pulling the masking tape off to get ready to stick it inside the dash and I noticed a had a little looseness in both of the contact L screw brackets. Not much but just enough to see - if you wiggled them with your finger. Taped up my paint job to try and avoid loosing as much paint as possible and pulled it apart again. (Tried the one rivet punch tool I do own but it was a little large and didn't help any ). Then took my hole punch pliers and a small washer (to try and avoid damaging/cutting the rivet up), some masking tape over the opposing contact side, and gave each a squeeze. It tightened 'em both up, feels like a 100% improvement from where they were, (just using slight finger pressure they don't move now),...but knowing that they will have to survive wire attachment torque with a screw driver when installed - it seemed wise to try and secure them as well as possible. Thought about trying to solder down on top of them. Got my soldering iron out and experimented with trying to stick silver solder to a brass washer,..the solder did finally stick, (but I use the word loosely - I could pick at it and after a few minutes - the solder would come off)….still thought maybe soldering over the top of the rivet head would at least sandwich it in and give it a little more strength...as it would lightly stick to the rivet head but should stick well to the steel L brkt terminals..? Anyone out there got any ideas ?? A better way ?? Leave it alone as is ?? A little dab of something like a JB weld epoxy ?? Just go ahead and try to find another switch ?? All reply's welcome and appreciated, thanks again. Steve

Many thanks Donald, I really appreciate your patience and efforts to help me here on the forum...you have stepped up on just about every post for help I've made … and this time was certainly no different. I hope it all goes your way today Steve'o

Here's a link to an electronics web site I found that is in agreement with Don's post above... I'm here to learn, and man oh man are you guys here on the forum helping it happen... thank you...knowledge is an awesome thing. http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/315208/can-a-6-volt-positive-ground-system-share-a-common-chassis-ground-with-a-12-volt The fella who was asking this question on this electronics forum web site, was wanting to put a modern 12v gas gauge in an old 6v pos grnd car. So a little bit different than my application, but still dealing with the same basic subject. When I first stumbled across this web site, and read the question and answer to this, what I got from it was YES, I felt like I was absorbing everything the instructor was saying, but sometimes it just takes missing a single word, to get in trouble with stuff like this....for example, I finally discovered this evening - why some folks will say that reversing the polarity to a starter will cause the starter to change directions and other folks will say that it won't,...the answer is that "they are both correct", some starters it will and some starters it won't, from what I've read - it turns out that older starters that used field coils are not affected by a polarity change, however newer starters that use magnets rather than field coils will be affected. So there can so easily be a catch to all this.. e the following is a cut-n-paste from the link above, and shows the diagram and some short verbage that the tech used to illustrate and answer the question... Then the last paragraph, was an additional comment from another individual who was stating that this also worked for him,....course, anyone can type anything on a computer screen that they care too,...still doesn't mean it's correct.; But with Don C's replay above, in conjunction with this link/below that I stumbled across and found, I'm thinking we have good solid accurate information here, on this... PLEASE, IF I'M MISSING THE FOREST FOR THE TREES HERE, WITH ANY OF THIS, PLEASE - YOUR INPUT IS APPRECIATED AND DESIRED. JUST LIKE YOU - I WANNA LEARN AND IMPROVE. ====================================================== As you found out yourself, you need a inverting voltage converter for that. -6V → +12V. They share the same ground level. simulate this circuit – Schematic created using CircuitLab And the answer to your questions is: yes, sure. EDIT, as asked for in the comments: There is nothing special about ground other than we define it to have a potential of 0V. It's just a reference potential. And voltage isn't more than the difference between the potential of two points in the circuit. So, this -6V is a property of the in wire and this +12V is a property of the out wire. Ground does not see anything what's going on on other wires. I purchased an inverted voltage converter (-6v input - 12v+ ouput) and connected all of the grounds to the chassis and it worked perfectly. THank you Janka and Hlovdal. I really appreciate all of the input. – Jim Stevens Jul 13 '17 at 21:54

maok, thanks for the reply,...in reference to your last sentence "You can have 6v negative ground and 12v positive ground together. " I believe maybe you meant to say: You can have 6v negative ground and 12v negative ground together. Correct ?

thanks rhelm1953, I appreciate the input big time....I looked at the very same unit you show in your reply, and I also found the same unit over at vintage auto garage for about $5 cheaper.. looks like it's made in New Zealand, has a 1 year warranty and has to be shipped over there for repair if necessary....installation notes talk about how warm the unit gets (I noticed it has the onboard fan and others on the market do not),..also states that it's not water proof, and others out there seem to be encapsulated so they are waterproof (not that I'm planning on getting it wet by any means),..anyway - other step up converters out there are way cheaper, and I'm suspect that they will do the very same thing as this unit will,....trying to learn here, knowledge is our friend I'll keep diggin on this, read an article last night on the HAMB, where folks were saying as far as the grounds go, it doesn't matter, they can be mixed,....they made reference to the very computer I'm typing on right now,..they said there are all kinds of voltages present and working inside our computers and also a mix of + and - grounding,...also visited an electronics web site where a previous person has asked the very same question, can +6v grnd and -12v grnd be connected,..and the reply back was absolutely YES... I've been pretty nuch a one way valve on this forum the past few years (always needing help and asking questions), I'll definitely post my finding when I get to an absolute 100% sure answer on this , in effort of sharing and helping others on this forum. Steve

THANK YOU Maok and Donald both for your reply's on this. Donald I was reading through the forum last night until my eyes finally crossed :), Don Coatney had some good past posts on here, I especially liked the one where (if I observed it correctly, again I had been searching for hours and was a bit fatigued to say the least), anyhoo - he showed an engine with both a 6v generator system and a 12v alternator system,...and if I understood correctly, his point was that ground is ground,...made me try to think past the norm of what I've always dealt with in a typical 12v DC system, where you sure don't wanna get + & - crossed up...and I visualized taking my voltmeter and going from any ground on a 12v system to any other ground with your red and black leads from the voltmeter, you are going to read "zero"...so why wouldn't the common ground work ? even if it's + or -, or across 6v or 12v,...it's still just ground,...seemed to start trying to make sense in my peanut head. So my thinking was moving towards being in line with your reply above Donald Smith, but I gotta say you have sorta lost me with the last four words of your reply there "or grounded at all ?" If you can further paint me a picture I'd appreciate it..:) I may try sending this reply in a message over to Don C..to try and get his guidance as well on this,...so I'm thinking - to recap,....that the overall chassis ground of my pos 6 v system would be fine to share (and also provide the ground), for an accessory (12v wiper motor) being powered from a 6v-12v step up converter, since I'll be running a dedicated 12v output power wire from the step up converter to the 12v wiper motor..?? My ground for the 12v wiper motor can be - or +, and can be shared with the overall common chassis 6v+ ground of the car, with no ill effect ? (burnt wires, paint, parts, smoke test ). Steve

A couple questions please - in regards to battery and ground architecture for my P15 project. 1): I've replaced the vacuum wiper setup with the Newport electric 12v kit, ( Newport unit is installed under the dash waiting for wiring). 2): I'm 90 % finished building a complete new wiring harness, ( using my old original harness, and the P15 shop manual electrical wiring diagram as a guide. ) 3): I have 2ea generators, both have been restored (new bearings,brushes, cleaned up and painted), and checked out by Fort Worth starter and Generator. (so I've got a good working and a spare generator should I need it). 4): I'm planning on leaving the car as 6v battery, so the wire gauges in the harness have been sized properly for the higher amperage, and I'll be purchasing a 6v cranking battery. 5): I was planning on connecting the cranking battery up as 6v positive ground, ( like it left the factory), just seems to make sense to me - then there's no conversion in your head when your working through your electrical issues in your shop manual, etc...however, either way ( 6v + grnd or 6v - grnd) is certainly acceptable, ( if it makes sense to go the other route and connect the cranking battery up as 6v negative ground )...this basically is where my question lies: My understanding, (from what I know about dc power and mostly from what I've learned here on the forum), is that beside from the orientation of the cables coming off your battery, you've got the following minor issues to also get in order: a): the + and - connections on the coil have to be in agreement. b): the input side of your ammeter gauge has to be wired in agreement. c): the old original 6v radios WILL NOT work either way, they have to be 6V positive..(not an issue for me) d): your voltage regulator has to be polarized in agreement to work with either the pos or neg setup. I am not aware of any other issues that would apply to any of the cars working parts, (starter for example),..you've basically just got current flowing from one wire/batt, through your device, and on and through your second wire/grnd...same amount of current, amps, etc...either way, device doesn't care.... Finally - here's the meat of my question,..(unless anything I've prefaced above is not correct, then please step in regarding the above as well)… I need to get a 6v - 12v step up converter to run the 12v Newport Electric windshield wipers. Began reading up on them and pricing them today. Newport says the wipers should draw around 4 amps max. Some of the step up converters say they will operate with a 6v negative or a 6v positive system, and some converters don't say if they will or if they won't....they all seem to show the same basic configuration, 2ea wires in 6v + & -, and 2ea wires out 12v + & -.... I know that not all the old cars were 6v positive, some were 6v negative,..and with these power converters being listed as converting 6v to 12v it makes me think that it might not matter, just connect up your step up converter to your 6v system and the input current will either flow through from positive to negative or vice versa with the converters functioning correctly either way. ??? I am assuming here on this, so I may be 180 degrees wrong,...definitely looking for help with this...also my Newport wiper kit instructions do not say anything more than 12v operation only,...(which in my head means 12v negative ground since there really is no such thing as 12v positive ground),...however again, it is just an electric motor, like the starter motor,...and in my head, seems like it shouldn't care...the current just needs to pass through the device. The Newport wiper system does get it's ground through the case of the wiper motor housing...which bolts to the underside of the dash. This concerns me as well. Initially in my head I thought it would be a MUST - to keep my 6v + common ground of the car SEPERATE from the 12v - ground of the Newport wiper motor, so I would need to make sure the wiper motor bracketry was completely isolated from the chassis of the car, and run 2ea dedicated wires (+&-) over to the unit, then I decided it might just be easier to set up a 6v negative ground system,and have a common negative ground, (then unless I misunderstood what I was reading, I seemed to find previous posts here on the forum stating that it was OK to share a 6v + grnd with a 12v - grnd, (just don't let the hot sides ever come together) ??? lastly, when I got this old car, someone had added an aftermarket gas gauge (which did not work),..after some study, I discovered that the sending unit in the tank was in-correct (single wire type), I purchased a 2 wire type, cleaned up the points on the gauge, connected the 1 & 2 terminals between the gauge and the sending unit, added -6v battery at the ignition terminal ,..and the gauge works perfectly,....I can't see how changing the hot wire into the gauge at the input (IGN) terminal could affect t he operation of the fuel gauge, but I seemed to read on here where someone thought it might, if anyone out there knows the answer to this, now would be the time for me to know, as I'm fixing to install the new sending unit I the tank, etc...and I definitely want the original fuel gage to work, as I have it doing now. Thanks in advance AGAIN, I hope you electrical wizards out there are listening...can't tell ya how much I appreciate the help and the education received here on the forum. Steve

Pete, you are 100% correct, I stand corrected on my comment that 10-12 awg bullets could only be found in the .195 diameter male bullet head,.....look at what I found at Home depot today ? The brand is Gardner Bender, and the .156 fit inside the female barrel of these bullet connector is very nice, very snug, you can see the female barrel upon up what looks to me like at least .005 or so when you insert the male stud into it.... I'm gonna remove the plastic and crimp one to see how it crimps. This 10 pack at Home Depot cost $1.96....but you only get 5ea male connectors as they are selling them in a set as pairs......still cheap enough. I attached a picture...( I just noticed it's a little blurry, for those that might want it - the part # is 15-162P Thanks for taking the time to reply and your help with this. Steve

Many thanks for all the continued reply's, I'm learning and appreciate the info....here's what I discovered about his all today, and how I plan to proceed forward: The industry standard today for bullet connectors is for the bullet end diameter to be either .157 " or .180" for a bullet connector that handles 14-16awg wire. (that's it, that's all that's out there, you can find them with out any plastic, with the yard plastic worthless sleeve, some with a better nylon sleeve, and some "mostly marine grade" with a adhesive lined heat shrink attached...………….then for the 10-12 awg wire, all bullet connectors today have and male bullet diameter of .195, and same thing as above - you can find them with sleeves and without. The original bullet connectors that came off this factory wiring harness have male bullets that measure in diameter at around .165 (some .163 some .167), and as Plymouthy has coached me, I took a drill bit - used it as a measuring gauge if you will - and found that I could just get a 5/32nd drill bit to fit tightly inside the female bullet barrels of this light switch. My computer tells me that a 5/32nd drill bit should equal .1567 of an inch,.....when I measured my drill bit with my calipers, I was getting around .153 ", course that's on a used drill bit that's been chucked up, etc...I also believe I'm suspect to using a bit more ( pressure/tension/slightly squeezing),... with the calipers than I should.. Anyway - the smaller .157" bullets for the 14-16 awg wire, with the adhesive lined heat shrink are cheap enough at around $4 for 10-15ea, so I ordered some. I also ordered some of the larger .180" bullets for the 14-16awg wire, again with the adhesive heat shrink, we'll see how they actually measure up, once they get here, and I ordered a small pkg of the 10-12awg .195 male end bullet connectors, again with the built in heat shrink. For the 1ea larger #12ga run, from post "H" on the headlight switch down to the high/low beam floor switch, I decided to try and follow suit with what Andy Dodge described above and I as carefully as I possible could, worked to open up both the inner copper female bullet barrel and the outer steel barrel to a larger diameter to accept the new .195 standard 10-12awg bullet connector end..see the attached pic.. I've got the H terminal barrels opened up to where a drill bit measuring .180" fits snugly in the inner barrel, and the outer ring is of course out of the way enough to allow the inner barrel to move as required. if the new bullet connectors do truly measure out to be .195", then at present I would have around a .015 " expansion fit...…(according to what I measured off the old original harness, there was around a .010-.015 expansion fit in place on the original bullet connectors.. not trying to make this harder than it has to be, but I would think that a new wiring harness is only as good as it's weakest link,...so I'm trying to build something that will hold up and provide a good service life.. This sure would have been a lot simpler, had I just bought a new aftermarket light switch, with screw terminal lugs on it but NO, I've gotta have my original knobs and bezels all matching, etc... I'll post again on this, when I get the connectors in and do some stare and compare, etc.. Steve

I appreciate the reply back Dennis, glad it's worked out for you - and hopefully it will continue to,...I have read information regarding this and can't help but see in my mind how it would make sense to be true. My problem with soldering and crimping, (especially soldering the wire before you crimp it) is that the crimp tries to crush the solder, and if it doesn't crush the solder it can try to break the wire in its effort to crush the solder as you crimp the connection,.... there's some information out there on this in regards to aviation and marine electrical wire connection standards... I have built complete wiring harnesses back in my boating days, when we ran the flat bottom jets drive boats, and never had a single connection come apart (using crimp only), and flat bottom jet drives take a pretty good pounding on the water and a lot of vibration just about 100% of the time....the key (and I am quoting a good friend of mine here on the forum who has helped me like no other), is in the quality of your crimp tool. Thanks for your reply to help and best of luck your way.

Thank you so much again everyone for all your excellent feedback and posts. Every single post response on this was helpful to me, I really appreciate it. In response to the great reply's back, I would greatly prefer to use crimp over solder as I now have a good T&B crimp tool and using it in combination with the good connector terminals that have the built on 3m adhesive heat shrink makes for a beautiful secure connection. But with these bullet connectors (and I read and would definitely agree with one of Plymouthy's old posts on this, the bullet seems like a real good place for trouble, so one needs to pay close attention to what's going on there, corrosion, etc..) When I looked at the modern bullets I was finding, they were all crimp on, none had their own heat shrink and they all had those large yellow hard plastic sleeves (that's OK, I can add my own heat shrink, it doesn't fit as nicely over the hard plastic sleeves after you crimp and maybe I'll just remove the hard plastic before I crimp), but also the physical size of these male bullet heads themselves were all over the place, and all were larger than what I had here on this harness, all those bullet heads also appeared (when I looked at the pics of them on the computer) to have a split in them (a seam if you will), where the metal was rolled to form the head of the bullet (rather than like these old connectors that are a solid chunk of material),..made me wonder if the modern bullets would remain tight in the female barrel,etc... So knowing me and the way I over analyze things, it seemed somewhat like a no brainer to just use the original bullets used at the factory, then I discovered the hole size issue, and ran to my forum buds for help and direction. I would agree again with Plymouthy, removing any strands sure doesn't set right with me, (course your gauge wire is sized to carry your amperage load with a minimal voltage drop, in telecom it was equal to or less than a 1% allowable voltage drop),...so you use a 12 gauge wire to carry your amps say 5 ft on a 10ft loop feet run, ( having a 1/4 inch of your wire trimmed down to 14 gauge at the bullet connector is not gonna be the kiss of death, and the fact that I'm using a marine gauge flex wire (with more physical surface area / circla mills / in respect to standard wire with fewer - but larger individual strands), also helps in respect to this - but still - it's definitely not good practice and especially with it being on the feeder end of the power run, so I also am not comfortable in doing that.. After receiving all the great reply's back, (it really helps to know that many of you have used modern bullet connectors and have not had any issues), I'm gonna proceed accordingly: I do shop a lot on ebay, and typically I just won't buy from a Chinese seller (not so much in that it's because the part is from China, we all know how that goes these days), but because as the fella above mentioned, it either takes forever, (or in my case, I just never get the item),...but I'm gonna go look for the connectors he spoke of.....and I'm also gonna go visit my napa guy "Jay" and see what they have in the line of bullet connectors... This forum is the best, thank you all so much. I really appreciate you all for taking the time to read through my long post and to reply back. Nice hearing from some new folks out there this time, and Plymouthy, Ed and Andy,...you guys have been helping me like a brother for years now..your like family, that's how much this all means to me and how much I appreciate everyone's help. Steve'o

Seems to me like there can be only one obvious answer to this question, but you folks whom might have come to know me here on the forum know that I just can't stand to be in doubt or to assume in regards to much of anything, so here we go. Picked up a clean headlight switch, factory correct part for the car (P15) see attach pic #3 100-5297 jpg. Requires the bullet connectors on the 4ea output feeds coming off the switch itself. On the original wiring harness I removed from the car (I've realized how lucky I was in that the harness had been taped up so the colors were extremely well preserved except for around the ends, and the harness had not been cut up too badly, only in that someone had replaced the original headlight switch with a 2 position toggle switch and the high low beam switch had been replaced with an aftermarket that required spade connectors), see attached pic #100-5293.jpg. Having the electrical schematic drawings in the manual, and the original harness almost all intact, has really allowed me to move forward with confidence in duplicating what I need with fresh wiring and connectors from stem to stern,....interesting that Mopar had a dash mark legend on the wires themselves, (a broken hash mark line tat ran the length of the wire), as follows: 16 ga = one single dash mark, 14 ga = a double dash mark (like an = symbol angled at a 45 degree angle down the wire), 12 ga = a triple dash mark symbol, and 10 ga had no dash mark - but was just the solid color of the wire. I made the decision to just run 14 awg everywhere 16awg was all that was actually required. so I didn't have to purchase reels of both the 14 and 16 awg…..so I need to run 2ea 12awg wires with the bullet connectors and 2ea 14 awg wires with the bullet connectors from my headlight switch.... I was lucky in that the original bullet connectors were still in the wiring harness (when the replaced the headlight switch with the toggle switch and the h/l beam switch they didn't cut the original bullets off, they used a female bullet barrel and pig-tailed off the original bullet connectors). So today, I took my soldering iron and removed the old solder and wires from the bullet connectors, see attached pic #2 100-5295.jpg.....some of the connectors had 12 ga wire soldered into them, some had 16 ga, 14ga...etc....and I didn't pay much attention as I removed the solder and wire other than trying not to get burned by the tip of that iron. Once I was finished, I was proud of my oem mopar butt connectors, thinking I have the right size connectors, with the correct angle on the butt, oem parts that were made to go together - yahoo !! success....then I looked down the barrel of each connector and the round hole opening for each connector appeared to be exactly the same size....yet I had just removed some factory 12 awg wire from a couple of these butt connectors..??? So I stepped over and stripped a short end section of my new 12awg flex wire, and of course it wouldn't stick up inside the freshly cleaned barrel hole of the butt connector..... So I'm guessing here, (unlike when you crimp on a terminal end and you try to be as careful as possible not to cut into your wires when removing the sheathing), that I need to do (and what the factory must have done) is to remove enough strands so that the 12ga wire will fit through the hole in the butt connector, then solder it up...?? Never having seen this before, I was expecting to find different size hole openings in the different butt connectors, gauging them for the different wire sizes, but from what I'm seeing here on my harness - that is not the case ?? Reaching out to you mopar electrical guru's who have been there , done it, and got the t-shirt to prove it....for confirmation about this, before I move forward.... thanks again, my forum friends..Steve

I currently have 2ea of the Mopar # 990547 head light switches I picked up off ebay over the last few years, both are clean (I've been inside them and have cleaned the contacts and greased them with electrical grease). However today, I noticed in my P15 OEM parts book, that the car was shown to come with a Mopar # 910507 headlight switch. Switches look to be very similar, with the same terminal designations, H - R - A & D....a lot of the info on the internet seems to show both switches being used on all the Chrysler, Plymouths and Didges,...however - I have found listings that make be believe that the 910507 was for the Plymouth, and the 990547 was for the Dodge and Chrysler. I've attached a picture of both headlight switches to this post, I believe the 990547 is 1/2 longer in length (probably not an issue), but here's what I was hoping to ask and learn from my fellow P15 forum members. 1): The 910507 switch, listed in the parts manual for the P15's, looks to have an on-board fuse holder. Being cylinder shaped I'm guessing it uses the older style buss fuses ? Can anyone out there help me out with this, is it truly a fuse holder ? does it use the old round style buss fuses, like I remember from my first cars in the 60's ? and if so - what amp fuse does it take ? 2): The 990547 switch, (of which I currently have 2ea in my possession) doesn't have anything that looks like a fuse holder, it appears to have ( I'm gonna guess out loud here ) a circuit breaker type protection setup, that utilizes a set of point contacts for the make break contact, where the main battery input comes into the switch,.....I might as well stop there, in regards to describing the points setup, as anyone is gonna either be familiar with this switch setup or not.... I have not attempted any kind of cleaning or filing on the points on either of these switches I currently have, and the way they are tucked into the rear housing of the switch, there's not much of a way to get a look at the contact surfaces... I like the idea of going with the switch that is shown in the P15 manual, (the 910507), I suppose I like the idea of a fuse rather than a set of points I am un-sure about...however, I'm thinking that fuse might be a little hard to get to if and when it might become an issue and blow:), course way better than the alternative - any day of the week.... aside from all this, I have picked up (here on the forum) on the wisdom of using an external relay under the hood to power the headlights, and just use your dash headlight switch to operate the relay,....thereby not bringing all those amps into the dash area..... But I would really appreciate any and all feedback regarding both switches,.....points versus what looks like a fuse setup....as its time to make a decision on whether to go with one of the existing switches I currently have or pick up a 910507, as shown in my parts book. At this point, I'll spend the money to get another switich, if I'm gonna feel better down the road about it...that's most important for my head against the old pillow at night. Thank you senior forum members, I have learned so much on this forum,..and I am truly thankful. Steve

Thank you both for your reply's back on this, I'm downloading the file now,...awesome, really appreciate this forum...

The moral of this story is "remember to thoroughly read your SHOP MANUAL",... Today I took a run at getting my cleaned up clutch over center spring installed back on the torque shaft of the P15..."someone once before had told me to just loosen the turnbuckle rod all the way and the over center spring should just slip in place, then tighten up the turnbuckle rod to take the slack out of the spring and to adjust to tension",.....well - WRONG !! with the turnbuckle rod back all the way off, I still liked about a good 1/2" distance in getting the spring hooked on both the L brkt and the anchor pin of the torque shaft., I had looked through my manual and found no diagram of the 46-48 over center spring setup, so I put the manual aside, and messaged Don C. here on the forum, question the fitment of the spring to the shaft, etc..trying to determine if I had something installed in-correctly, etc....I knew I had everything back together the way I had taken it apart, from a diagram I had drawn out when I disassembled, but I was really concerned that that lower "L" brkt might be on backwards "upside down if you will,..seeing that if it was reversed I would gain a lot of play, a good inch or better.. Don was good to reply back, and sent me a couple of pics,....one especially I had not seen before, showed the configuration for the L brkt, which matched the way I had it installed, this was a big help, thank you Don C. Then I decided to put on my big boy pants and whip this thing,......went and got my come along, rigged it up to spread that spring apart, installed a bunch of washers wrapped with a little electrical tape to try and preserve a little paint if possible, and got the spring to spread out a good 1/2 - 3/4 of an inch,......feeling a little proud of making this come my way,....I came in the house to grab a drink and catch my breath for a few,.... It was then in my frustration with the shop manual for not covering the over center spring for the 46-48, I opened the pages of the manual one more time, and found this: pg:57, 1946-48, to install the spring, first fasten the hook end to the clevis pin on the torque tube, making certain that a washer is located between the hook and the lever. Then attach the other end of the spring to the bracket on the frame. With the lower bolt of the frame bracket in place, pivot the bracket into position and insert the top bolt. Check location of spring bracket with special gauge and tighten both bolts securely" Talk about "feel like a moron", chalk it up to another great reminder in regards to "READ THE MANUAL",... I've got two of these over center springs that I cleaned up and repainted, this one pictured here is still sitting out in the garage with the spacers in place, it was the original spring that came off the car and both hook ends are about half way worn into, for that reason I purchased another NOS listed one, which did appear to have never been installed, and matched this spring and hook assy perfectly,...I suppose I'll use the new one, and try installing it the way the shop manual says... Just to learn, anyone out there know if spreading a spring, in this fashion, with steel washer inserted to hold the coils apart, would damage the thing in any way ? I wouldn't think so, but what do I know ? very little I'm discovering sometimes, but I am learning

That's kinda why I'm thinking about using the old original cluster gear, instead of this newer Wagoner aftermarket. In my mind, stuff like that oil groove and lip, and having the gear balanced,....the things that Wagoner didn't do,..maybe that's why, these original mopars had a good reputation and history ?? like your describing,.....that's exactly why I'm asking here, ...don't wanna spend money trying to use the better part, and do all the good I can, while I'm in this thing (sharper edged looking gear teeth, no physical signs of wear at all, etc ).... but end up actually shooting myself in the foot, and overall downgrading the quality of the tranny - by doing so. thxs dpollo, Steve

Trying to due my part in researching this,.......multiple sellers on ebay offering the Wagoner WT243-8A countershaft gear,......none of the auction pictures had good enough pics to see the inner bore, so I wrote the sellers asking about it,......all came back saying the bore was completely smooth like the one I have..... One seller, who strictly sold vintage gears told me, that the countershaft gear I had was NOT an original Mopar part, the he had an original In the box. and that it had a smooth bore just like the Wagoner. Recommended I use the Wagoner, that it was a closer design to the original, and all should be good.....had me feeling positive about this for a few minutes - (as it seemed he had nothing to gain as he wasn't trying to sell me his Wagoner part),....then about an hour later - I found an ebay seller, with a 100% positive rating, that had a countershaft gear up for auction, listed as an original Mopar 697823, (just like what my P15 parts book shows to be correct), and he had some really good pictures you could zoom in on... Well, low and behold - the one he had for sell,. looks exactly like my old one,....it has the 4ea drilling holes in the flat bottom surface of the large end gear (balance holes I would think). They are the same size and in the same location as on the gear I have,.....also on that same flat surface area on his gear, you can see the dpcd logo stamped into the gear, (that's something mine doesn't have however, mine has the letters E L X D stamped into it ?? (You can see it in the pics above I attached to the original post), don't suppose anyone out there might know what that stands for ??....also when you zoom in on the end shot of the gear, where you can see down the bore, the groove and lip is there....just like the gear that came out of my tranny...?? This seller also had a Chryco box, with the part number 697823 displayed on it, not that a box really confirms anything,.... I politely wrote the vintage gear seller back, thanking him for his time and effort, and tried to again "politely" nudge him towards what I had just found that day also on ebay, as described in the previous paragraph,...asked if his oem gear had a part # stamped on it anywhere ? or possible the dpcd logo ? ? ( he wrote me three separate messages the day before, but not a word back yet regarding this now. !!! ) I just keep telling myself, the old adage "if this we're easy - everyone would do it" and try to keep moving forward... Steve

thanks dpollo and austinsailor,....Yes, when I watched the Master tech Video's, I picked up on the arbor trick (where old Dutch showed the younger guy to use the tool to hold the needle bearings in place in the countershaft gear),...I happened to mention it to one of the forum members in a conversation, and he told me that 3/4" oak dowel from the hardware store would work perfectly,...(so I've got 2ea slightly different in length already made up and ready to go),...yes Austin Sailor, even Dutch on the Master video recommended using heavy grease to hold the needle bearings into the main pinion shaft, until you could get the retainer clip in place......but I think even he thought it was too much of a juggling act to try and just use the grease alone without the arbor, when your also having to deal with that spacer shaft being in there as well, he (Dutch (did say to put some oil on the bearings to hold them in place, if I remember correctly he said Use some oil, there's not enough room for grease)...anyway - all this was good advice, I appreciate you guys sending it my way......had I not already known it would have been gold to me,....so I appreciate the thought and effort from you both. Dpollo, regarding the modern lubricant comment, my understanding is that I have got to stay with GL1, or I'll have problems with the modern stuff attacking the bronze synchronizers and thrust washers,...so I don't' know if modern GL1 is superior to what they had back then, (which was also rated as GL-1),.....It's possible I suppose,....?? I get all bogged up on this stuff, due to lack of real world experience,..drive's the more experienced senior guys here on the forum,..NuTz ...which sure isn't my intent, we're (the good ole USA) loosing folks who have knowledge like this,...folks who can actually make something, and do more than just push a button and read what pops up.... It's not a contest in perfection and I'm not trying to build a " nothing but oem parts ", type car.....I just don't wanna make the wrong decision and use the wrong part, that could cause my grief later..... I know I've got issues with having to feel like I did my absolute best ,(due-diligence) , on everything....I just can't sleep and night unless I feel I truly did. My employers always loved it,..but I guess they we're about the only ones. Maybe George Asche would be good to ask about this,...seems like I've read he has a lot of experience with these transmissions....cause if I'm thinking correctly on this, and I believe I am, that countershaft is always turning,....it never stops,.. no matter what gear, including neutral...seems like a good place to do the right thing, and choose the correct part, if it might make a difference,....maybe not - I know what I need, a giant Mopar crystal ball Steve

dpollo, YES - I do have the spacer tube shown on the drawing I attached to this reply (its shown as part #83) and I also attached a pic of it to this reply along with the xmn diagram drwg. It's a smidge over 4 1/2 inches long...and came out with the needle bearings. What i was originally questioning is in addition to the part #83 spacer. It's actually the way the bore of the original Mopar countershaft gear is cut, in comparison to the way the bore on the wagoner is cut.... HOWEVER,...I've got to fess up here, on my original post I was making a BIG error going from my memory only,.....I was thinking that the part #83 spacer shown in the drwg and the attached picture was longer. That it ran the entire length of the bore of the countershaft gear, and that without that additional short inner lip I was seeing up inside the mopar countershaft gear, that the needle bearings would travel and move,....however - now that your reply back - had me go look through my parts at this spacer tube again, I see that it's shorter length serves to not only fill the space between the bore of the countershaft gear and the shaft itself, but it also does serve as a spacer to keep the needle bearings from walking. Oldtimers disease I guess, I apologise - I should have double checked myself, I was sure that the part #83 spacer ran the full length of the countershaft gear bore....I suppose I'll learn the embarrassing way - to go check myself before I start crying wolf - huh ? BUT, after seeing this, and my mistake here,...I went back and double/triple, checked myself,..with my snap gauges and calipers,.....and the bore on the original mopar gear truly does downsize by .0010 ", so there is an additional ridge inside the bore for the bearings to ride on, and there is also "as you can see in the original post pictures" an additional deep groove on each end of this ridge that's about 3/16 inch wide, (gotta be an oil groove to hold oil right where the ends of the needle bearings contact the spacer tube ?)....anyway - none of that's present on the aftermarket Wagoner countershaft gear. I wonder how necessary those two elements are ?? It definitely seems as though it complicated the making of the original part quite a bit,.....if it wasn't required, looks Walter Chrysler wouldn't have included it in the machining of the part..?? Again, I was lost as a goose in my thinking when I posted this - so thanks Apollo for bringing me back down to earth here,....but now, loosing that oil groove on each of the bearings where they ride up against the spacer shaft, and also loosing the additional needle bearing support doesn't feel real warm and fuzzy either.... At this point, I don't know if anyone out there might possible be able to offer up an example of having used a Wagoner aftermarket countershaft gear, with successfully longevity ? Steve

Recently I purchased a super clean Wagoner WT-243-8A Countershaft/Cluster Gear to replace the worn mopar 697823 part in the manual 3 speed of our 46 Plymouth. This completed the list of parts I needed and I'm ready to go back together with it all, UNTIL TODAY'S DISCOVERY sigh.............!! I purchased the new Wagoner 3 speed cluster gear from an ebay seller with a 100% rating, (great guy - and he's good with refunding me on the purchase), but we're trying to figure out what's going on with this Wagoner aftermarket replacement part. Anyway - the Mopar number is 697832, the Wagoner number is WT-243-8A. The part looks NOS, super clean, but on the inside bore of the gear I just noticed this today - up inside the bore of the gear, (about an inch or so inside) there are no oil grooves on both ends and the center bore of the gear doesn't reduce down in the middle section of the gear to provide the ridge on both ends necessary to hold the needle bearings in place...so I not seeing how this Wagoner part could work, looks like the needle bearings would just wash/walk /move around until one moves far enough to get out of the lineup, then your toast ....we're trying to figure out if it's a defect, etc. Only other thing I could possible think of, is if that slightly smaller bore I'm seeing inside the gear, could possible be a .005 thick hardened inner sleeve ?? Both gears measure 1.005 " on the outermost end of the bore openings. Anyone out there experience anything like this before ?? I've attached 2ea pics that show what I'm trying to describe,. on just a single end of each Cluster gear, my original (which shows the groove "which I'm thinking is an oil groove" and then immediately to the inside of the groove you see where the bore reduces down to a smaller diameter,....the smaller diameter runs through the entire mid section of the gear, then you have a repeat of the same oil groove and the bore opens up slightly, again on the opposite end of the gear....the reduction in the center looks to be about .0010, and this gives you an edge for your needle bearings to ride/butt up against, while resting inside the gear between the bore of the gear and the spacer tube. Just wondering if among all the experience here on the forum - someone might have run across this before possible....maybe it's just a defect, a mis-labeled gear...just guessing at this point...but again , I don't see how it could work, and WT-243-8A does appear to be the good interchange number for the Mopar 697823. ??? Thanks again Steve