gunnibronco

Thanks!

I'm moving into my new shop and sorting through some parts. I got these with a 331 extended bell (1951 I think). I won't be using them and wondered if there is a market for them. Maybe I should be posting this in for sale, but I want to make sure I know what I have and what it fits. Any suggestion of value is appreciated. I'd rather see them put to use, or stored for future use than scrapped.

Thanks for your help. I still need to pull the motor out of the bed of my truck, but it's safe and dry there until then. I will grab those headlight parts and get them off to you. I've been trying to get the new roof on my shop between rain, snow and wind storms.

I've had some great help on the Hamb. It's the same on my early Bronco and 4x4 forums. The larger the audience, the better chance you'll get bad info or someone who bashes your build. The smaller forums, with specific focus do tend to give better, less judgmental information. It might just take longer.

That is where I've spent a lot of time, and got some good answers.

No problem at all. I've received some good help there. I'm very familiar with the larger forums, I've been on 4x4 forums for years. I'm all too aware of the chances of getting bad advice. Mostly I just needed to confirm what I remember reading years ago when I first bought my 331. Between my advice here and on the HAMB I think I've made a decision how to move forward that will help me build the right motor for my car. I just have limited time to put my name on a set of heads so the seller doesn't sell them to someone else. Thanks again.

I gotcha.

Anyone interested can check out my car. I hate to admit it but I got it in 2012 and haven't done anything to it except accumulate parts. Life has taken a few twists and I haven't gotten around to the car. I relocated a couple years ago and have no shop. I'm finishing a new shop up and hoping to get to work on the car 'soon'.

I'm leaning towards picking up a set of the 354 heads and using my Weiand 2x4 intake and a cross over. They are a good price, flow well, work with my intake, and since my 51-53 heads will have to be rebuilt anyways, the cost is fairly minimal. The 55-56 331 heads I can buy are "Industrial" heads casting #1632159-1. I have been told that the 55-56 Industrial heads are a crap shoot as they were intended for industrial (pumps, etc) applications and 'don't follow the rules'. Castings, valves, and specs can vary.

Thanks for all the info. Here is what I've come to learn: 51-53 heads are fairly restrictive and lower flowing than 54+ heads. They run out of air about 4000 rpm, but will be adequate for a street driven car. Small round ports in the 51-53 heads, larger oval ports in the 54+ heads. 51-54 used a water cross over with the t-stat housing in the intake manifold. 54 was the only year that OEM offered a 4bbl with the crossover & t-stat in the intake. I happen to have one that came with the 2nd 331 I bought. I've attached pics of the factory 4bbl I bought, and a Edmunds aftermarket 2x4 with this design. 55+ (331,354,392) heads & intakes don't use the water crossover/t-stat housing in the intake, but use one built into the front dress. To use 55+ head & intake manifold on a 51-54 block/front dress you have to add a cross over with t-stat housing. HHH sells 2 versions: http://hothemiheads.com/water_pumps/crossover_cast_aluminum.html http://hothemiheads.com/water_pumps/crossover_and_housing.html 54-56 331 heads, and 354 heads all flow about the same in stock form. 55,56 "555" or "triple nickle" heads (casting #1556157) are probably the most desirable, as they can be modified to flow more than others. 54 flow similarly and work with the 51-54 intakes with the water cross over in the intake manifold. I've also included a pic of my Weiand 2x4 manifold w/2 Carters. I got this with the first 331 I bought. It is a vintage part w/"Say Why And" on it. It's been ceramic coated. I have no idea what it's worth. HHH sells the new version for $529. I saw one on Ebay around $1000 without ceramic coated or carbs. http://hothemiheads.com/intake_manifolds/weiand_intake_2x4.html All the factory rocker assemblies are the same for 331, 354, & 392 heads

I'm getting good information. Thanks to all. How do you add the thermostat and water outlet to an early 331 when switching to 55 and later intake and heads? I'm guessing you have to change some of the front dress. I can't seem to find the info. Hot Hemi Head's web site is wonky and keeps failing to load for me.

Thanks, I've had the extended 331 blocks for a while now. I know about the difficulty mounting transmissions and have read about all the adapters. From what I can tell, I've gotten pretty good deals on both. Looks like I could sell the intake manifolds for more than what I have invested. If I came across a well priced 54 or 55 block, I would buy that and sell off the extended blocks I have. I did more reading last night and realized what you've said about punching the block to a 354. It can be done, but really shouldn't. After reading, I will probably not do that, and stick with a minimal overbore and rebuild. Thanks for the link, I'll look through those pages.

I've read if the block is sonic tested it can be done. I'm not an expert and only going by what I've read. I'll be doing more research before my build for sure.

Thanks, I'll look for the book. I've posted on the HAMB and HHH's forum as well.

I'm hoping to get some advice on some heads I have a chance to buy. I'm not an expert and trying to buy good parts at good price for a long term build. I have a 39 P8 coupe I will be building. I've had the car for a while but life has gotten in the way of my build.Over the last few years I have bought 2 51-53 extended bell housing 331s. Both disassembled. Both motors have a set of early heads with rockers. I have one set of exhaust manifolds. One motor came with a ceramic coated Weiand 2x4 intake with carter carbs (no tstat in manifold). One motor came with a 1954 4bbl factory intake manifold (tstat in manifold).I expect I will bore the block out. I'd like to go up to the 354 bore size, assuming one of my blocks is solid enough.From what I've read the early heads don't flow well. I'm guessing that both the 1954 4bbl and the Weiand 2x4 would outflow the heads.I've found someone selling several sets of heads, rockers, and exhaust manifolds.He has a single 1955 head (casting #1556157-1).He has what he claims is a matching 1954-55 set (casting #1632158-1 & 1832159-1- I'm wondering if this is actually 1632159-1). These numbers don't match what I've found on line. Are these actually 54/55 heads? One google search came up with 54/55 Dodge truck heads. Are they better than my 51-53 heads? Do I need matching rockers & exhaust manifolds or will my 331 rockers & exhaust work?He also has what appears to be 3x 1956 354 heads (castings 1619823-1). Would these be a good head for my motor?The prices seem fair but they are a long drive away (4 hours each way). I don't know what to look for and really don't want to drive that far if it's not what I want.Thanks.

Not much has happened here. I'm focused on finishing my house remodel. Although I want to be done with my house, its really so I can start working on my car (and my daily driver 74 Bronco needs some TLC). Hopefully in the next 6-12 months I'll start on this car. I've been reading tons and have a much better idea how to tackle this project when I do get to work on it. I've stripped the Mountaineer (front brakes, rear axle, swaybars, I also grabbed the brake pedal & mc/booster set up just in case, and a bunch of odds and ends that I probably won't use, but you never know). My Bronco club is going to take the rest for their club truck, EFI, and trans are great for an Early Bronco. I already have the EFI on my truck, and don't want the automatic. I've also bought a 5.9L Magnum motor & 46RE trans, complete with PCM & harness. Its a 4x4 but its fairly easy to swap over drive units to a 2x4 set up. I think it will get installed as is, but plans will be to at least recam it with a custom cam for a car application. Eventually, I'd like to stroke it, sounds like you can go 400"+. I appreciate the older motors, but since mine already has a GM V6 w/blown freeze plugs, it's going away. I'm so happy with my OBDI EFI on my Bronco, its hard to consider anything else. I ran a carb for 15 years on my Bronco, but I'm no carb expert. I've been reading up on using OBDII, and will be reworking the wireharness & getting my PCM flashed or buying a programmer, we'll see. That is a long way off. I found this bumper, I was kind of looking for the "peaked" bumper I had seen on some Dodges & Desotos from the same period. I'm not exactly sure what years/models they came from, but this one is pretty cool and will look good on the P8. I think its from a Diamond T, REO, or maybe a Mack JR. I haven't found anything exactly the same, but those all look similar. I drove 3+ hours(one way) on a Sunday morning to pick this up in Pueblo, CO. As we were talking about my project, the guy started asking about my 39. He asked if I knew where there were anymore. I ended up selling him my whole "pile" of parts cars. I sold the extra chassis, and a couple parts I wanted to keep, to make the deal, but it was worth it. I got a lot of space back, and ended up with the best parts for my project. I was really lucky to find that "pile" of Plymouth parts cars. Lots of extra parts, I won't list what I got, because I feel a little guilty hoarding the awesome parts I have. Chad

Thanks for the offer. I've become pretty creative sourcing parts, its really good to have contacts on the outside though. Lots of the guys in my Bronco club put up with my whining about the lack of salvage yards here, and help me out too. Car guys are some of the coolest people around. If you are down around Gunnison, let me know I'd like to meet up. I have to admit, I like the idea of the classic flat top 6 motor in the car. But, this is my first real "old" car build, and I want to be driving it before retirement, so I'm going to keep some aspects "simple". I've got some time, and hopefully I can source a cheap 2x4 truck with a decent driveline. I don't mind rebuilding the motor and/or trans, if needed, I really expect to. If you run across a $500 Dodge with the 360 & OD, let me know. That is close enough for me to come get. Chad Thanks again

Thanks, I actually have a couple extra leaf packs, I have an extra rolling chassis. So I should be able to come up with a good set. I read about getting the packs rebuilt, I'll look and see if anyone in GJ or the front range does that. Probably do a Cavalier r&p, and move the motor to the right 1" or 2". The Explorer rear ends are offset 2" to the passenger side. When the motor & trans are offset, can the trans & driveshaft still fit through the X frame member? If anyone has any pics of an offset driveline, I'd like to see how close things get to the crossmember.

Ha, ha. The 413 motorhome motor has 7.5:1 compression ratio. Perfect start to a supercharger/turbocharger. Just like sea level!

I may end up with a custom set of springs. Actually I live in a town of 2500 people, so there just aren't lots of services available. Alcan is in Grand Junction and they make custom springs, I live 2 hours from GJ, 3+ hours from Denver or Colorado Springs. Makes things a little difficult, but worth it for the lifestyle. The Explorer is 2000# heavier than the coupe, so they might be unusable. 360 w/OD trans is exactly what I'm thinking right now. Just need to find one, hopefully I'll find a 2wd Dodge truck, maybe. 2wd aren't prevalent around here, but they are cheap when they come up. Passed up a 413 Industrial motorhome motor, too much to change (heads, water pump) and I don't think I want to try to shoehorn it in, on my first hot rod. We do loose about 27% of the power at this elevation, its very noticeable.

I've been reading up a lot about these cars here, for the last few months. I've learned a ton, and think I have a clearer idea of how I want to progress. Unfortunately, it may be another 6 months or a year before I can start on things. I've still got a ways to go on my house, and I have to finish it before I start this. I just picked up a totaled 97 Mountaineer 4x4 5.0. I'm going to grab the rear end (3.55 limited slip), rear driveshaft and front disks/calipers. I already have one Explorer rear axle, its a 3.73 open gear. This will give me extra axles and brake parts. I also think I'll grab the front & rear sway bars. I dont' see why they should be able to be used. I could be very wrong. I was wondering what thoughts are on using the Mountaineer/Explorer rear leaf springs and control arm set up. I can cut the spring mounts off the Mountaineer frame. I would think the packs could be disassembled and individual leafs removed if the ride was too harsh, or tall. I'm not familiar with setting up car suspensions. But my thoughts are with a strong V8, the old rear suspension is inadequate. I am having second thoughts about using 75 year old leaf springs. I'm thinking about grabbing the pedals and m/c & brake booster, just in case, I don't have a plan for my pedal & booster yet. Probably a bunch more stuff too, interior lights/under hood light/wiring pig tails/steering rack to send in as a Cavalier R&P core? It sucks living 2+ hours from a salvage yard, I want to keep everything, but just don't have the space. There are some parts I'm grabbing for my 74 Bronco, and hopefully giving to my Early Bronco club to use on their club build.

I'm guessing its like the 39 Plymouth. Here is a pic of the back edge of the hood, and one loose. PM me if you want these, I'll sell them. You could make them pretty easy too.

I want to send a big thanks out to Jim Benjaminson for helping answer my questions about the different body tags, and info. He also cleared up why the Oregon title was registered with a P14 motor number instead of a P8 number. It just indicated the motor in the car at the time of the registration was a P14 (1942) block. So I think that leaves me with an Oregon title that can't be tied to this car. I was hoping to find a motor number stamped in the frame, but it will be the original motor number, not the P14 number. Out of luck. Here is what I did find, painted on the frame forward of the leaf springs. Painted in red? (I'm color blind, so I may be wrong) is "12 1.38.72-4" & "PLY"(I'm not 100% sure the first 1 is a 1, its pretty hard to make out). I've flipped the photos 180*, the writing is upside down on the frame. The "PLY" is close to the top of the frame, behind the rocker.

Here is what I've found. I started looking at the parts frame I have at my house, and found a number stamped in the frame about 26" in front of the front spring hanger bolt, directly above a brake line hanger hole. The number matches the block pictured above- 225768. So apparently that motor came from that frame (2 door sedan), cool. I went down to storage and started wire brushing the same spot on my car and couldn't see any stamp. But I could see that the original black paint was still on the frame. I kept brushing at a couple odd spots in the paint, around the same spot as the stamp on the other frame. As I cleaned I could see the letters "PLY" in red? paint, stenciled on the frame. I also can start to make out a series of numbers below (closer to the ground) the PLY letters. I have to go tear down elk camp now, but will go back with some scotch brite & stuff and see if I can make the numbers out without removing them. Sorry I didn't have a camera, and I was squeezed between the storage unit wall, running board, parts doors, floor, and reading upside down. If the car is titled with the engine number why wouldn't it start with P8? I corrected the title number above, it is PI4898I3. What is PI? Why is there an I in the number code? Does I=1?

I'll go down to storage tomorrow and see what I can find on the frame. I found this thread that says the engine number should be on the left rear frame rail. http://plymouthbulletin.com/smf/index.php?topic=283.15