martybose

FYI, the only difference between an early and late 230 waterpump is whether they have the external bypass (early) or the extra cutout in the backplate for the internal bypass (late). You can use the late waterpump on an external bypass engine by swapping the rear plate. Marty

I replaced the flex part of the oil pressure line with a premade AN-2 brake hose with a 90 degree turn at the bottom. The block fitting was easy, the trick part was finding the adapter from the AN hose to the hardline from the gauge, but I found one. Hasn't leaked a drop since then. Marty

Well, I did lead off my reply by saying that I was still sulking, as it really fried me that it working for a day and a half and then quit again. Maybe I'll feel better about it after Thanksgiving! Marty

Yeah, California climate is an interesting topic all by itself. I'm near Galt, which is in the Central Valley about 25 miles south of Sacramento, but I'm only at 60 ft of altitude. and I've already seen temps just slightly below freezing in the last couple of weeks, probably be in the twenties later on. This after a summer that saw temps above 105, so we see around an 80 degree swing through the course of a year. hopefully it will be a rainy winter for a change! Marty

I'm okay, but I'm still sulking a bit. It's been in the high 30's/low 40's in the shop, and I haven't felt real enthused to go crawling around on a concrete floor to figure it out yet. Marty

Since my thread keeps going on, thought I would update my situation. In my last post I had taken the car out and driven it for an hour, with the OD working perfectly. I then decided that it would be a good idea to treat the fresh gas in the tank, since I don't usually drive it a lot in winter. Put the treatment in the tank, then decided that it would be a good idea to drive it a little to get treated gas up to the carbs. So I took it for a drive to the store. It worked flawlessly driving to the store, but wouldn't shift into OD on the drive back. Mechanically it was engaged, because it was freewheeling, but electrically it wouldn't engage. I was so annoyed that I drove it into the shop and closed the door and haven't looked at it since. I suppose when I stop sulking I'll jack it up (again!) and see if something has changed with the wiring, but I'm in no hurry. Marty

If you really mean no fabrication, the simple answer is no rearend has a 1-1/2" perch in the correct location, let alone could be directly connected to an original driveshaft. There are a number of rearends listed in the famous Don Coatney rearend list that are aprroximately the correct flange-to-flange width, but they will require new spring perches and driveshaft modifications. Marty

You won't find a set of pistons like that, you have them made. About a dozen years ago when I built my 230 I found that the block was a worn out 0.060" over motor. We figured that it would clean up with another 0.010" bore, so we started looking for a ring set. Found a Toyota metric set that came out as a 0.072" overbore, then sent a ring set and a stock piston to Venolia. They sent back a gorgeous set of forged pistons set up for the Toyota ring set. We then built a honing plate and installed it, then bored and honed the block for the new pistons. It's been running just fine ever since. Marty

I used a standard FelPro gasket with my Edmunds head. I did retorque the head several times after going through a couple of heat cycles; just kept retorquing until I reached the point where none of them were changing. I haven't touched them in a couple of years since then. Marty

It works! I got the car back together, took it for a drive to warm it up, then pushed the cable into the engaged position and took it up to speed in 3rd. Lifted off of the throttle at about 40, and it shifted silently into overdrive! Drove it for about an hour, filled it with gas. Seemed to run better after the fill-up, maybe because when I checked my records the last time I put gas in it was March, so it might have been starting to go bad. Overall I'm a happy camper. Now I just need to get the steering wheel straightened by setting the toe-in, and them see about replacing the rear springs, since one of them has been starting to sag a bit. I think this thread is done! Marty

Progress at last! It only took about 30 seconds of work with the Dremel tool to get the plunger to fit, then I blew it out, put some of the "Assemblee Goo" on the plunger, made sure it stayed in place, and installed the original lockout switch. I then tested to make sure that the switch was open when the lever was disengaged, closed when engaged, and then made sure that it opened again when disengaged (wanted to be sure that the "Assemblee Goo" didn't hold the plunger out). Now all I have to do is install the floor tunnel cover, the carpet and the seat, and then it will be ready for a test run. Should be ready to go Wednesday! Marty

I found out today that I didn't think through my theory about the adjustable reamer well enough. The hole in the casting is only about 1/2" long, and the adjustment mechanism and the pilot bottom out before the cutters reach the bore. So I went out and bought some small diameter tapered Dremel tool grinding stones, will try that tomorrow. Marty

Doctor Dirt, The first thing to check is whether the actuation cable is pushing the lever on the OD all of the way back; I had to play around with the cable routing and adjustment to get it to work right. Then check the lockout switch; it should be open when the lever is straight down, and closed when the lever is all of the way to the back. I received the reamer that I ordered, just waiting until it cools down in the shop a little to go for it. And talked to a friend of mine, who told me what I should have/will use for holding the plunger in place: Dr. Trannies Assemblee Goo. It is a grease that is formulated to dissolve in any transmission fluid without ill affect. He dug around in his shop and found an old container that was almost empty and gave it to me. Maybe I have a chance ...... Marty

Well, the drama is on me this time. As most of you know, the OD lockout switch is vertically mounted from the bottom of the housing, so you have to figure out a way to keep the plunger in the bore and then quickly screw in the lockout switch. Well, I thought that the plunger would stay in if I oiled it before I stuck it in. I oiled it, stuck it in, and it seemed to hold, so I put in the switch and snugged it down. When I checked the switch, unlike before the connection was made in both positions, which isn't any better, so I pulled the switch back out, and got hit in the forehead by the plunger. Looking at everything, here's what I figured out. The plunger must have fallen out as soon as I tried to start the threads on the switch, and landed sideways on top of the switch. When I tightened the switch, the sideways plunger hit the counterbore angle below the 3/8" bore. This did two things: 1-it collapsed the end of the switch, destroying it, and 2-it kind of peened into the counterbore angle and moved some cast iron, so that the 3/8" bore is slightly smaller in a couple of places. The bottom line: the plunger no longer fits into the bore it is supposed to fit in. I confirmed this with my 3/8" centering punch, which fit in before but not now. The only good news is that the plunger seems undamaged after all of this. I looked in the McMaster-Carr catalog, and found an adjustable 3/8" reamer that starts out undersize and then can be expanded to a full 3/8"; hopefully I can fix it with that, once I receive it. If it works, maybe I'll try greasing the plunger to hold it in. Then I'll find if my old switch is still okay, since it was the new switch that I destroyed. Marty, truly unhappy tonight .............

The one I have now does have a groove around the middle. Marty

I had left a message for the tranny shop that I still had the wrong plunger, and told him it looked like it was 3/8"x5/8". He called me this morning that he went through his bucket of misc stuff, and may have found it. I've picked it up, and it at least looks right; I'll put on some old clothes, crawl under and try it tomorrow. Marty, fingers crossed ......

Well, this experience hasn't gotten any better. Today I tried to put in the little plunger that the transmission shop found that looked like the missing one, and it is too small. The one they found was about 1/4 inch OD, and just rattled around when I put it in. I pulled out my set of centering punches, and found that the hole in the casting is just larger than 3/8 inch, so that is what I need. I left a message for the transmission shop to look again, but don't have much hope that they will find it. Does anyone have a destroyed R10 that still has the plunger for the lockout switch still in it? Otherwise I'm out for the count. Marty, in a bad mood .......

Of course, one of the problems with a car like mine is that they never had an OD from the factory, so there is no reference in the FSM to OD maintenance. I had to get an FSM for a much later Plymouth to get the OD info. Marty PS Dr. Dirt, one of the surprises I got with this episode, aside from proving I'm an idiot for not keeping an eye on the oil level, is that even shops that are familiar with the R10 OD are not necessarily familiar with the Mopar variant, since apparently it is the only one that has the additional electrical components that Mopar used. That was why the guy that rebuilt the mechanics of my R10 didn't realize he was missing an itty-bitty piece that went into the lockout switch installation; the missing piece will probably turn out to be the reason that the OD won't engage at the moment.

I had no idea that there was an additional piece in between the shaft and the switch! I will be taking one of the photos back to the transmission shop to find it tomorrow! I am eternally grateful! Marty

Okay, now it's getting weird. I received the brand new lockout switch that I ordered, put it in, and it doesn't work either! Before I put it in I confirmed that it makes a connection when the ball is pushed in, but apparently the ball isn't pushed in enough in the car. I'm going to actually measure everything tomorrow and see what gives. Marty

Thank you for the part number; found several, and should receive one of them by next Monday. Marty

Well, things have gotten interesting. My current problem is an odd electrical one. The lockout switch is open when the cable-operated lever is disengaged, and is supposed to close as soon as the lever is moved to the engaged position so that the governor signal can reach the relay. I took out the switch and I can make it connect manually, but apparently there isn't enough throw when installed to make it work. I even removed the copper washer and scraped the paint off of the mating surface to see if I could get it to work, but no luck. The tranny shop doesn't have that switch, as it is a Mopar-unique application he doesn't carry. The switch doesn't appear to be possible to take it apart to adjust. Does anyone have an extra lockout switch that I can buy? My other problem is a damaged wire from the governor to the lockout switch, and I'll fix that tomorrow. Marty

Well, it is a good news/bad news kind of day. The good news; I brought the 47 home, and the OD has been repaired. The bad news; it doesn't work right now. The problem is electrical, which is strange because I have never had an electrical problem. I'm going to have to dig out my wiring diagrams, make sure everything is hooked up right, then start debugging it. Mechanically the OD is working, going into freewheel when the cable is pushed in. But the pawl from the solenoid won't engage, so no OD. I don't hear the relay clicking inside the car, and I already verified that no fuses are blown, so the hunt begins. The interesting thing was seeing the old pieces. The failure mechanism was interesting. The sun gear has three small gears on shafts that go between the ring gear and the output shaft. The failure is that due to lack of lubrication the bearing on the three gear shafts starts to wear, and the gears shift away from the sun gear until there isn't enough gear contact to prevent the gears from chewing on each other. Chaos follows immediately. The other interesting thing was the comment that everything inside the casing was coated with what he described as a thick tar that is almost impossible to clean off. He said at first he thought the output shaft was toast, but after he finally got it cleaned up it was fine. That was great news, since that was the one piece he couldn't replace, as the Dodge piece is unique to the application. He said that the tar is a residual from the GL-1 oil we need to run, and that because if it the oil should be drained from the tranny and OD housings every couple of years or 5000 miles and replaced with fresh GL-1. I'd never heard that before. More updates when I figure it out. Marty

If the steering is the same as my 47 Plymouth, this is what I did: 1. Jacked the front of the car up and put some good jackstands on the frame sections behind the belhousing 2. Used an impact gun to remove the nut and steering arm from the steering box (just left them hanging) 3. Pulled off the steering wheel (after disconnecting the horn wire under the car and pulling it out from the top) 4. Backed off the bolt on the pinch clamp on the steering column tube right at the steering box 5. Put a jack under the inner pivot shaft of the left lower A-arm, then used an impact gun to take off the 4 nuts on the two clamps holding it on and dropped the A-arm down. 6. Used the impact gun to get the three bolts through the steering box mounts out and removed the insulators, spacers and other pieces 7. Slid the steering box out with the shaft intact. I didn't even have to loosen the steering clamp under the dash or even disturb the shift linkage, they all stayed put. In retrospect I should have found an easy way to disconnect the left A-Arm at the outside end, as it turned out to be an absolute bear to get the front suspension back together with the spring in the right place; it took three guys and a really big pry bar, and wasn't pretty; find a different way to do #5 above! You need to get the left lower A-arm out of the way of the steering box as it comes out. The steering shaft is one piece from the inside of the box to the steering wheel; make it real fun to ship somewhere. Getting the horn wire back in took a piece of welding rod and patience, but was easy. Marty

Well I got the call this afternoon; it's ready to go. The quote had been $800 + parts, the total was just under $1400, so $600 for the parts and tax. When I asked if he knew where the leak was that caused it, he basically listed virtually every place that you could leak from, but said that he thought it was all sealed up now. I'll go pick it up tomorrow, and hopefully see some of the old parts just for morbid curiosity. He said that he drove it around his neighborhood, and it shifted fine and was totally silent. Marty