Front Springs....Chop Shop?

[splat1955]

Another question. Has anyone here lowered the front end by trimming the front springs? I'd like to get the front down about 1 1/2 to 2" and I've gotten about as small as looks good with the 205/75R15. I really don't want to spend the bucks right now on Fatman drop spindles or do any mods that way. I also do not want to heat the springs....that was okay when I was 17. I was just wondering though if anyone had cut the front springs to get some drop and if so, how did you do it, how much drop you got/how much spring you removed.

Also, I think someone here mentioned a specific company that will build a spring to the specs you want....What company was that and has anyone here used them? Has anyone done exactly what I want to do already to a '48 Dodge 4 Dr, how did it turn out?

[Normspeed]

You'll want to take somewhere from 1/2 to 1 coil out. On my 53, 1/2 coil dropped it just a hair under 2". I would've preferred 3/4 of a coil but didn't feel like popping the coils back out for the additional cut. Removing the coils is not that difficult but it's a very dirty greasy job. Mackster and I are getting pretty good at it, we've had his out twice and I've had mine out twice. I cut my coils with a Harbor Freight 4" angle cutting wheel.

[BobT-47P15]

Heating is definitely not the best way to go......back in the 60s, I had the coils on a 47 P15 heated. Rode pretty rough when hitting any bumps. Lowered it a couple inches at least.....thought I was pretty cool at the time.

They also used to make clamps to compress the coils. Don't know if they are still made.....but the end result would probably be similar to heating.

[splat1955]

You'll want to take somewhere from 1/2 to 1 coil out. On my 53, 1/2 coil dropped it just a hair under 2". I would've preferred 3/4 of a coil but didn't feel like popping the coils back out for the additional cut. Removing the coils is not that difficult but it's a very dirty greasy job. Mackster and I are getting pretty good at it, we've had his out twice and I've had mine out twice. I cut my coils with a Harbor Freight 4" angle cutting wheel.

Hey Norm....Can you tell me what the process is or do you know if theres a post on it anywhere here? Anything specific I need to watch for when replacing them? I done GMs in the past which consisted mainly of getting the car on stands so the suspension hangs free, coil spring compressor to remove the springs.....cut them, compress again to re-install. But those vehicles were later models...not nearly as old as the '48....Any suggestions too would be appreciated. Thanks

[Normspeed]

Maybe I could write it up again and get it in the tech section. On these cars you don't need a spring compressor, and in my opinion you don't need a safety chain or cable either, although you could use one if you wanted. All you need: 2 solid jackstands, a hydraulic floor jack, some socket wrenches and a lot of GoJo. I'd also suggest putting down a disposable tarp because you will knock a lot of lumpy grease and dirt loose. I think I posted this before, I'll look in the older posts and see if there's a link.

edit: here's a link to a good thread on traditional lowering for our cars. Lost of great spring info, coils and leafs. Still looking for the R&R link.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=714&highlight=springs+lower

edit: ok, here is the barebones version for spring removal. I suggest you read the entire thread though because there are a lot other posts with great info and photos. The thread address is below. No need to mess with shock absorbers.

I dropped the sway bar first, left it attached to the control arms but unbolted the bushing retainers and let it drop down. (That removes a lot of resistance when you lower the arm to get the old spring out.) support the lower outer control arm with floor jack, just lightly compressing the spring. Remove the lower outer pivot bushing. On mine it has a lock nut on one end, remove that then just back out the threaded bushing with a socket. Lower the jack. You may need to push or pry down on the lower arm a bit to get the spring out. Then put in the new spring, make sure it's rotated to fit in the little spring pocket in the bottom arm, raise the arm with the jack, and thread the pivot bushing back in with the grease seals in place. A putty knife helps keep the grease seals in until the bushing is in place. If you can't line up the threaded bushing, try not only raising/lowering your jack a little, but moving the kingpin support in and out. Should line up easy. Don't cross thread it.

view full thread here: http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=2928&highlight=spring+remove

__________________

[claybill]

i ahd a 40 coupe....put it up on a hoist...the first one we took out and cut off 1 coil...the second one we compressed and torched it in place. handles better etc. i will be getting those springs back soon from the man who bought my car..

bill

[splat1955]

Hey Norm........thanks for the links.....Gonna read them entirely today. But since I haven't read them totally yet....I have one question before I dig in and try to find a second set of springs so I can just R&R.....Did you cut the 1/2 coil out of the top of the spring? Is it only the bottom of these springs that have a " retainer" that the end of the bottom coil has to be set in?.....and not the top? Thanks again.

[Guest rockabillybassman]

Here in New Zealand it's illegal to cut coils, so I sent mine out to a springmaker. They reset them so the car would sit 2" lower, but still retains the original spring rate. Cost me about $50 including freight.

Cutting them will stiffen them up, but that may be what you want.

[Norm's Coupe]

I like doing something like this the safe, easy, fast way. I'd just determine how low I wanted the car to sit. Then I'd pick up a Street Rodder, Custom Rodder or Goodguys magazine. There are several places who makes new springs for any car to raise or lower the car, or keep it original height, whatever tickles ones fancy. They advertise for both coil and leaf springs.

[Normspeed]

On mine, the top end is tapered to a flat surface. I left that alone. I cut the bottom end. In this photo of Mackster's DeSoto coils they are upside down, sitting on the flat end.

I tried to give him the cut offs, maybe clean 'em up and make some nice earrings for the little woman, but Mackster was concerned that she might put one in his nose.

Hey Norm........thanks for the links.....Gonna read them entirely today. But since I haven't read them totally yet....I have one question before I dig in and try to find a second set of springs so I can just R&R.....Did you cut the 1/2 coil out of the top of the spring? Is it only the bottom of these springs that have a " retainer" that the end of the bottom coil has to be set in?.....and not the top? Thanks again.

[splat1955]

Thanks for the pic Norm......Okay, well, it looks like a full ring came off each of those coils.....How much did that lower the car....and was there any major difference in ride stiffness? There should have been a slight increase in stiffness....but how about handling, was there any difference in feel?

On mine, the top end is tapered to a flat surface. I left that alone. I cut the bottom end. In this photo of Mackster's DeSoto coils they are upside down, sitting on the flat end.

I tried to give him the cut offs, maybe clean 'em up and make some nice earrings for the little woman, but Mackster was concerned that she might put one in his nose.

[Normspeed]

Those are for a chopped DeSoto that Mackster, one of the forum guys, is building. Not ready to drive yet but soon. (The car, not Mackster)

One full coil probably dropped it 2 1/2 to 3". Hard to tell because they sort of settle in after driving. As you can see, it sits pretty low. That's with the big block DeSoto six lurking under the hood.

Cutting 1/2 coil off my wagon dropped maybe 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 but after some miles it's closer to a 2" drop. If you go for more than that you might want to cut some rubber off the snubber cushions while things are apart. I didn't, but some folks recommend it. Even with just a 2" drop, I go easy over the speed bumps. Here's Mikemaker's "beater" and my wagon.

[splat1955]

Hey Norm,

Those are some cool 'ol rides in those 2 pics.....I think, for my application, that I will have to go with maybe a 1/2 to 3/4 coil....I like the looks and stance of the " beater"....but, I'd then have to drop the rear a little if I went 1 full coil and I'm not sure I want to go there yet. Plus I'd need to see how much space I have above my rear wheel after having put on 235/75R15's back there. So, do you, or anyone else out there happen to have a set of springs they want to part with for a few $$.....I've posted in the " Parts Wanted" section, but hoping someone will read this post and have some. Again, thanks Norm.....I think I'm gonna drop the front here pretty soon!

Those are for a chopped DeSoto that Mackster, one of the forum guys, is building. Not ready to drive yet but soon. (The car, not Mackster)

One full coil probably dropped it 2 1/2 to 3". Hard to tell because they sort of settle in after driving. As you can see, it sits pretty low. That's with the big block DeSoto six lurking under the hood.

Cutting 1/2 coil off my wagon dropped maybe 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 but after some miles it's closer to a 2" drop. If you go for more than that you might want to cut some rubber off the snubber cushions while things are apart. I didn't, but some folks recommend it. Even with just a 2" drop, I go easy over the speed bumps. Here's Mikemaker's "beater" and my wagon.

[mackster]

You'll want to take somewhere from 1/2 to 1 coil out. On my 53, 1/2 coil dropped it just a hair under 2". I would've preferred 3/4 of a coil but didn't feel like popping the coils back out for the additional cut. Removing the coils is not that difficult but it's a very dirty greasy job. Mackster and I are getting pretty good at it, we've had his out twice and I've had mine out twice. I cut my coils with a Harbor Freight 4" angle cutting wheel.

I agree! 3/4" of coil will put it just under 2 1/2" it looks great! It still has enough bounce for the road, I will be running radials just from normspeed's advice (I trust him very much) so the road does not worry me, but I say it will be perfect at 2 1/2 inches. I however can not expalin to you how to that will be all normspeed. . . .

[Normspeed]

Thanks Mack. One last word about cutting coils, different spring sets react differently, so all the measurements are estimates. The first set I cut for the wagon were out of a 50 Plym 3 window coupe. They looked identical to my wagon springs, and same height. I cut one full coil from them, installed in the wagon, and they dropped it to the max, where the suspension was just sitting on the snubbers. Too low to be practical. Turns out those 50 springs must have had a different set of specs and were softer. I wish I had just installed them uncut, I would have gotten a nice drop without cutting. Best bet is to sneak up on it, take 1/2 coil, and if you want more, take them out and cut another 1/4 coil. Expect changes in steering and handling. You'll want to go right to a good front end shop that still remembers our cars for a decent alignment job.

[splat1955]

Thanks Mack. One last word about cutting coils, different spring sets react differently, so all the measurements are estimates. The first set I cut for the wagon were out of a 50 Plym 3 window coupe. They looked identical to my wagon springs, and same height. I cut one full coil from them, installed in the wagon, and they dropped it to the max, where the suspension was just sitting on the snubbers. Too low to be practical. Turns out those 50 springs must have had a different set of specs and were softer. I wish I had just installed them uncut, I would have gotten a nice drop without cutting. Best bet is to sneak up on it, take 1/2 coil, and if you want more, take them out and cut another 1/4 coil. Expect changes in steering and handling. You'll want to go right to a good front end shop that still remembers our cars for a decent alignment job.

Excellent Suggestion Norm...." Sneakin' up on it " I like that idea. I haven't pulled them out yet so I don't know the procedure or the length of time it takes to R & R the springs, but the last thing I want to do is cut..and find out that I've taken too much off and sitting lower than I wanted. Even not knowing how long it will take to R & R the springs, I'd rather have to do it a few times than 1 time badly. Thanks

[Normspeed]

If you get ready to do it, there are a couple other little things that make it easier, let me know. Last time Mackster and I switched his, the two of us did the both sides in less than an hour, includes jacking car up, taking wheels off, and drinking beer, of course only after the car was safely back on the ground.

[splat1955]

Yeah Norm, I'd like to hear anything that could make it easier when I get ready to swap springs which I hope will be soon. I had the passenger side up on stands today....R & R'ing the wheel bearings, races & seal....and I messed with the spring a little...just to see if there had been any tension lost by having the front suspension hanging...but it still seemed tight....but then I remembered you said something about dropping the mounts to the sway bar(or what ever it's called) to get a little slop in the springs....Am I right about that?

If you get ready to do it, there are a couple other little things that make it easier, let me know. Last time Mackster and I switched his, the two of us did the both sides in less than an hour, includes jacking car up, taking wheels off, and drinking beer, of course only after the car was safely back on the ground.

[mackster]

If you get ready to do it, there are a couple other little things that make it easier, let me know. Last time Mackster and I switched his, the two of us did the both sides in less than an hour, includes jacking car up, taking wheels off, and drinking beer, of course only after the car was safely back on the ground.

I say Normspeed should write a how-to tech tip to keep in the archives for all of us, with pics and all... That will rock!

No pressure pal! Mackster.

[splat1955]

Okay Normspeed, Sounds like it's unanimous.........and I'm ready to do the spring thing.....How do ya feel about writing up a " how to " tech tip. I'd like to know all the little secrets you guys learned when R & R'ing the springs. No pressure here either but sure would like to have all your tips before I get started. Thanks.

Brian

[Normspeed]

Splat55 asked me for those few other tips I learned about coil spring R&R. I pulled up a prior post and edited in the extra tips. This method worked on my 53 Plymouth and Mackster's 53 DeSoto. Looks like it will work the same on the earlier stuff like P15/D24s.

Doing it this way, and in this order, you don't need to disconnect brake hoses or shock absorbers. Caution, be careful under the car, use solid jackstands, etc. If you cut coils, wear eye protection. Here's the whole enchilada:

On these cars you don't need a spring compressor, and in my opinion you don't need a safety chain or cable either, although you could use one if you wanted. All you need: 2 solid jackstands, wheel chocks, a hydraulic floor jack, some socket wrenches and a lot of GoJo. I'd also suggest putting down a disposable tarp because you will knock a lot of lumpy grease and dirt loose.

Jacking: Chock the rear wheels. I jack the car from the center front crossmember, using a wood block. Jack it high, and place a jackstand on each side, back near the firewall under the frame where the frame goes straight and flat. Lower the car onto the stands, give it a few shoves in different spots to make sure it's solid. Remove the front tires.

Drop the sway bar first, leave the eight bolts hanging from the crossmember. Leave the sway bar attached to the control arms at the ends but unbolt the bushing retainers and let it drop down. (That removes a lot of resistance when you lower the control arm to get the old spring out.)

Support the lower outer lower control arm with floor jack, out near the lower spring socket area, just barely compressing the spring. Remove the lower outer pivot pin. On mine it has a lock nut on one end. On some models it may have a castellated nut with a cotter pin. Remove that nut then just back out the long threaded pin from the other end with a large socket.

Lower the jack. At the same time you can pull the upright kingpin support outward at the bottom for working room. Two rubber cups (grease seals) will come out or may stick to the upright support. Save them and note which came from the front end and which the rear of the pivot pin, they have different shapes inside the cup.

As you lower the jack, the lower outer control arm will drop slowly and all tension should come off the spring. You should be able to reach in and rattle the spring around, it will be that loose. No tension. You may need to push or pry down on the lower arm a bit to get the spring out. With the arm pushed down, lift the spring up until it's at the top of its socket, then turn it and move the bottom to the rear and outward. Spring should rotate out pretty easy. That's it.

Then put in the new spring, flat end upwards. If there were any rubber noise dampers up there, put them back in. Rotate the spring to fit the bottom spring end into the little spring pocket in the bottom arm. Raise the arm slowly with the jack, line up the holes in the outer control arm and the upright support. Begin to thread in the pivot pin. Once it grabs the threads, stop and put the two grease seals (those rubber cups) in place. A putty knife or dull plaster knife helps keep the grease seals in place as you line up the threaded parts. If you can't line up the threaded holes so the pin turns in easily, try not only raising/lowering your jack a little, but moving the upright kingpin support in and out. Should line up easy. Caution, don't cross thread it. You should be able to turn it in by hand with just a large deep socket. If not, back it out and wiggle the assembly and try again.

Once the pin is threaded all the way through with the rubber cups in place, torque the pin.

Torque value is 100 to 110 ft lbs. In shade tree that's "really tight" but not "3' foot breaker bar really freakin' tight".

Then you put on your lock washer and lock nut or castellated nut. Drop the jack, do the other side, quicker now because the sway bar is already down and you know how it works now. Then when the other side is done, bolt up the sway bar with the 8 machine bolts that you left hanging in place in the crossmember. This is a good time to get out the grease gun and hit the 28 or so zirc fittings on your suspension and linkages. Tires back on, jack up the center, remove the jackstands, drop her down, step back and admire your work!

Here's a link to a good thread on traditional lowering for our cars. Lost of great spring info, coils and leafs.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=714&highlight=springs+lower

[mackster]

I can follow it, so can anyone else. well done!

Mack G.

[Normspeed]

Thanx. I forgot the part about the black widow as big as my head.