how does the hub seal to spindle?

[Guest 50Plymouth]

I'm preparing to remove hub from drum. My local parts store (orielly) has no parts # for '50ply hub seal(s).

....

a NAPA store suggested 17131 if your looking, will confirm, should be a wide year range '55- ?.

Ryan

[Normspeed]

Should be a seal. The seal is pressed or tapped into the hub after the inner roller bearing is put in. Sometimes when you pull the front drum, the seal and inner bearing stay on the spindle. I have a coupla 50 front drums I'm cleaning up at home, I'll try to get you a picture and seal numbers tonite.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Thanks, picture would be great! If the seal is inserted flush maybe I do have a seal after all I thought maybe that was a race or something. I was expecting rubber Is there a special tool for installing and removing these? How do you know if they need replacing? I assume the seal must be popped out to remove that inner bearing then.

[Normspeed]

Here's a pic. the seal is metal with a rubber inner ring that rides on the spindle. On mine the number is 1138758, with no brand name.

Shade tree method for R&R: Put a long 3/8" or 1/2" extension in the hub hole from the outer race side. Seat the fat end of the extension on the inner bearing and tap with a hammer (gently) to knock out the inner bearing and seal. Don't hit it hard, just tap it. You can also use a large socket on an extension, one that will fit in the outer hole and will seat against the inner bearing.

To install, use a seal installer tool (almost free at harbor freight) or put a wood block or a very large socket over the seal and tap it into the hub until flush.

[randroid]

Ryan,

Do it exactly as Norm said. If I may, I'd like to add a little to his excellent method.

Where the seal sits will accumulate grease, which will, after awhile, take on a life of its own. Over time a little grease will seep between the metal part of the seal and its seat in the hub, and given the opportunity it will harden into little lumps. They are one of the biggest reasons it's difficult to remove an old seal and the main reason you'll ruin a new one when you try to put it in. That stuff needs to be removed by scraping without marking the hub, and when the old grease comes off it sometimes rolls and sometimes shatters so I always wear goggles when doing something like that. Soak it with mineral spirits first to soften it, then finish cleaning with a wet rag. I don't use abrasives of any sort because they will usually leave behind some abraisive residue that will eventually find its way into the bearings, or so I imagine, but a brass toothbrush with mineral spirits shoud work fine if you do it with the hub aimed down. If any brass fibers come loose they're big enough to see and gravity won't be against you when the hub is upside-down.

When I seat a seal on a hub I roll it a lot around the lip to find the "sweet spot"; that place where everything is aligned and it "feels" like it's ready to drop in. I'm the first to admit I'm anal about cleanliness and more often than not go farther than is ever necessary, but it has been my experience that good enough sometimes isn't. Anyway, if I can't find the sweet spot I'll generally wipe it down a little more until things click. (Not an audible click but more of a sensible thing.)

I tap them into place slowly and softly round and round the opposite edges making certain that it's dropping into place evenly. Once it's sliding smoothly you can put a piece of wood over it and drive it home with a with a heavy hammer hitting in the center of where the seal would be if you didn't have a board over it. Once down, use a small hammer and a punch and lightly tap around the edge, but you're not trying to drive it in so seriously just tap. It should have a "ring" sound instead of a "thump" to tell you it's seated, and if it dosen't ring then ease it down slowly and gently until it does.

I always do things the long, drawn-out way, and most people who don't do half of what I just said never have any problems at all. It's a hobby for me, so I allow myself a few indulgences.

-Randy

(BTW, If you bend it you buy a new one.)

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Thanks guys! So that seal is typically always replaced when removed?

If I may, are there any secrets\tips to grinding away retaining studs on the hub\drum? I removed the head of one on the outside and found it wouldn't pop\push out as I'd hoped. One had half already gone and easily knocked out but the others.. Vise grips won't grab good on the opposing head when I ground away other side, I thought about trying to file notch the sides for for grip.

p.s. I was already considering a trip to HF this weekend for one small item, figures the seal driver kit wouldn't be on half off, somebody needs to correct their sale timing..

Ryan

[1just4don]

instead of seal drivers,,,I thought thats exactly why they invented sockets of different sizes,,,works for me!! I even get into the 3/4 inch drive sockets alot for this job,,,havent found one yet I cant match up to what I got!! I drive new bearing races with them, just the same way. like said an extenstion or a round rod/bar can be used well for knocking them out.

[Normspeed]

Why are you removing the hub from the drum, I missed that part.

Since the seals are cheap and available it's good insurance to replace them while the drum is off and bearings are being repacked. But if you're looking at nearly new seals in good shape I've been known to re-use them.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Why are you removing the hub from the drum, I missed that part.

Since the seals are cheap and available it's good insurance to replace them while the drum is off and bearings are being repacked. But if you're looking at nearly new seals in good shape I've been known to re-use them.

I removed hubs because I'm upgrading to disc hubs will sit behind Ford rotors now (with Buick calipers no less, I'm covering all my bases with the big three...) Shortly, I'll post my experience with the particular kit I ordered (Scarebird) & a few installation pics. Brackets are on. Zero machining of anything.

Since I succeeded in separation I now understand the seal thing, got it removed it looks rather worn as the contact part is quite rough, but still haven't found new ones even when I took that seal # to the local parts store. I ended up shaving retaining stud on down to frontside of hub instead of completely popping them out.

Anyone have mercy on me and share an actual purchasable part #? I think I may have found it here actually: http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=NOS&PartNumber=17131&Description=Wheel+Seal+-+Front+Wheel

Ryan

[Normspeed]

That part eyeballs ok. You can compare your old seal dimensions to the ones in the item description. Hang on to those old drums if they're not completely shot. Someone will be needing them.

I've had good luck so far with NAPAinline.com. Knock on wood.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

I had Napa order those 17131's as their books use as cross-reference #. I put my cheap-o (HF ) digital calipers on just when I was called in for meal, and they looked extremely close.

I almost mistakenly ordered other seals that guys with after market hub\rotors are using when looking at a Plydo disc installation sheet... If these turn out wrong I'll note it here.

Yes, I won't pitch all my old brake components. Should I keep my old Wheel cylinders or would no one want them?