alternative disc. conv. method not using brackets

[Guest 50Plymouth]

http://home.wi.rr.com/dndrodshop/disc.htm

Anybody know this guy? my emails to him bounce back to me unfortunately.

He did a '48 Ply. front disc conversion using 1/4" thick backing plates from earlier Blazers.

My question is how the calipers attach to this backing plate (mounting points are modified\rewelded), and how the backing plate attaches to our stock spindles (drilling). I assume it must go behind the spindle to not take up spacing on spindle.

I've never seen really thick backing plates where caliper actually attaches to it. It looks like it could be method for me to use, but I need waaaayyy more direction. I know people love the various kits and the Caliper brackets like olddaddy makes, but I'm trying not to spend double the cars price on front brakes important as they are...

Anybody done this? If I can find a set of 1/4" backing plates to work with I may try. Pro's\con's?

Ryan

[Dennis Hemingway]

Ed is a member of this forum and uses the name dndrodshop. You can look him up in the members area.

Dennis

[Norm's Coupe]

Ed's system seems to work great. If you can't get hold of Ed, pick up the book "How To Hot Rod A Mopar" by Tex Smith. A detailed explanation of how Ed did it is in that book. Believe he mentions the book on his website too.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

yeah, I saw the book and looked it up. On Amazon its now out of print and one copy (actually the cheapest copy) is available for $96!)

(If your reading this and planning on selling yours now for major $$$ shame on you... tsk.)

Ryan

[Norm's Coupe]

yeah, I saw the book and looked it up. On Amazon its now out of print and one copy is available for $96!

Ryan

Geez, that's a kick! Maybe I should sell mine for $150. On the serious side though, check the book stores in your area like Barns & Noble, etc. Also check with the book sellers listed in Old Cars Weekly. I'm sure you can find it cheaper than that. Or, try ebay. That book also shows pictures of Ed's brake being put together.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Considering they are $133 on Half.com that's not as funny as it was at first. It may be out of print but not that rare! Maybe those after market caliper brackets aren't so expensive now

I wonder if I could get someone to copy the concerned section? I'm not familiar with legalities and limits of currently copyrighted material of what is acceptable.

Ryan

[Norm's Coupe]

Ryan,

You made me dig out that book. Haven't looked at it for years. The actual name of the book is; "How To Build Chrysler Plymouth Dodge Hot Rods, by Tex Smith. Is that what you are finding for $96 and $133?

If we're talking the same book, you won't believe what I paid for it, price sticker is still on it. I bought mine at a Half Priced Book Store in the 90's. Price sticker says $8.98! The original price was $17.95.

It looks like Ed used the backing plates off a 4 wheel drive early Blazer that are 1/4" thick. In reading the article it looks like Ed cut the backing plates to accept the caliper. He also used spacers but didn't say what size etc.

I would make a copy but if I do, it would probably break the book binding since it's a paperback book. The book is like new so don't want to do that. It's too nice of a book, has lots of neat stuff in it besides Ed's brake setup. Try sending Ed a "Private Message" if you can't get through on his email address.

[Guest mudflap22]

I just did this to my ' 48 P15. I used '74 Blazer full size front backing plates.(I later found a Dana 60 front of off something that the same plates.) I located where the original backing plates mounted on the '48 spindle and tranferred that to the Blazer plate. Then,I purchased new mid '80's s Olds Toronado rotors ( don't have the part numbers with me but I got them at Auto Zone) and had them drilled for the Plymouth wheel pattern. The hubs from the ' 48 where then drilled to accept 1/2 studs and the studs where pressed in. The backing plate has to be cut where the calber mounts to fit down on the rotor and clear the inside of the wheel-I'm using 15" wheels-- and then rewelded to its new location. Pretty simple.

[Guest mudflap22]

I forgot to mention that I just bolted them in place of the original backing plate. NO spacers of any kind. You will be using the original hub from your car so original bearings etc are part of the deal. Total cost was under 100.00 dollars. The backing plates came from a you-pick it yard for 20.00. The rotors were about 40.00. The rest I did myself but a machine shop could do what else is required. Still , pretty simple.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

I just did this to my ' 48 P15. I used '74 Blazer full size front backing plates.(I later found a Dana 60 front of off something that the same plates.) I located where the original backing plates mounted on the '48 spindle and tranferred that to the Blazer plate. Then,I purchased new mid '80's s Olds Toronado rotors ( don't have the part numbers with me but I got them at Auto Zone) and had them drilled for the Plymouth wheel pattern. The hubs from the ' 48 where then drilled to accept 1/2 studs and the studs where pressed in. The backing plate has to be cut where the calber mounts to fit down on the rotor and clear the inside of the wheel-I'm using 15" wheels-- and then rewelded to its new location. Pretty simple.

mudflap, Did you take any pictures of this along the way? What calipers did you use? Can you elaborate any on cutting the plate and how that is rewelded. are there threaded holes in the plate for caliper?

Norm's Coupe: yes it is that same book, went by isbn. (some think) Worth its weight in gold now huh?

[Norm's Coupe]

Ryan,

I had to look that book up myself on Amazon.com. You were right, they want $96 for that thing. Says right on the cover in the upper right corner $17.95 original price. It's a nice book but I can't believe anyone would actually pay that kind of money for it.

If you are looking for detailed pictures on the job, that's not in the book. It just shows pictures of Ed's car on jack stands, then the parts. That's the only pictures in the two page article. Ed also used the Toronado rotors as mudflap explained.

If you really want the book though, I'm sure it will be on ebay soon after discussing it and the high price here. Seems that always happens. The sellers see something like this and see gold in their eyes. Won't be my book though, I'm holding onto mine. May need it to buy another house someday.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Found a local yard that has the backing plates off a 4x4 '75 Blazer for $25 a piece arrrg. $50 is a lot more than $20 for two, still cheaper the brackets though... they're already sitting on a shelf or something so no work on my part. Think its overpriced? Yard prices seem to get higher all the time for the oddest parts, you'd think they rarely sell.

So, using a Blazer caliper is not possible with the Toronado rotor. Why aren't they using Blazer caliper since it requires less modding; must be a wheel fit issue?

Norm, if you find a second copy of the book by some innocent, you might be able to add in a garage\shop and another Plymouth to that future house.

[Guest mudflap22]

I used the Blazer calibers-just rebuilt them. As to where to cut the backing plate ; it's not tough if you have one in front of you but I'll try: cut down the vee to the face of the hub or what mounted the platte to the Blazer about an inch and a half or two --there is a a slight bend in the metal where you need to cut.Take the cut pieces- you should have two- trim them at the bottom and sides until they will fit lower down on the plate . Put the rotor on at that point , make sure the caliber will go over the face of the rotor, if not keep trimming until it fits. DO NOT GET CUT HAPPY HERE! Trim,fit, trim some more. When they are right tack the pieces,then take off the backing plate and weld them solid. No monkey crap welds! Take them to somebody if you can't weld. Really pretty simple. Remember, I got my plattes at a u-pick-it salvage yard.

[Guest mudflap22]

The cutout pieces need to be about an inch and a half to two inches wide and go all the way to the hub of the plate.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

The cutout pieces need to be about an inch and a half to two inches wide and go all the way to the hub of the platte.

Could you use blazer calipers or tornado calipers or do different GM calipers have different bolt spacing patterns.? Trying to figure out if I should ask for Blazer caliper cores or not...

What did you use for hoses? Thanks for sharing all this information.

If I use one of the other PlyDo recommended rotors could I skip the whole drilling rotor and messing w/ hubs step? (see attached image of parts listing)

Ryan

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Opps. This is the plydo instructions with usable rotors and calipers here, I don't want to create extra steps if the right rotor will save work:

Courtesy of Don's collection..

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v65/DonCoatney/Brakes/?action=view&current=PLYDO_instructions.jpg

[Guest mudflap22]

I used the Blazer hoses -plenty long enough but if you want something longer or shorter a GOOD partsman can find something--somebody should still have these catalogs around. I didn't try any other calibers as I scored the Blazer ones with the backing plates.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

Does the '70's Blazer\PU have to be 4x4? I notice there are different calipers on the parts sites for 4x4 vr. Rwd. Local yard has plates but no calipers for core.

Is there a rotor with a built in hub with right bolt pattern that anyone has used?

If I can get measurement of toronado rotor in comparison to the other listed PlyDo suggestions I might find one same so I can skip the drilling business.

Ryan

[Guest mudflap22]

The Auto Zone part number for the rotor is 112425 5550--'79 Olds Toronodo and others. I used Napa 641-1393 wheel studs. I don't know of any other hub and rotor that will work. Maybe we should ask if this is going to be used for a P15? I don't know if this will work on anything else. I'm told that some of the '46-'48 hubs were slightly larger than others (due to different foundries) and the opening in the hub may need to opened up a little-- or turn down the hub.

[Guest 50Plymouth]

The Auto Zone part number for the rotor is 112425 5550--'79 Olds Toronodo and others. I used Napa 641-1393 wheel studs. I don't know of any other hub and rotor that will work. Maybe we should ask if this is going to be used for a P15? I don't know if this will work on anything else. I'm told that some of the '46-'48 hubs were slightly larger than others (due to different foundries) and the opening in the hub may need to opened up a little-- or turn down the hub.

Maybe I'm jumping to quick into this. My car is a p20 - I just assumed hubs and spindles were same. I still don't get why new studs are needed if the old hub is being mated to the Toronado rotors.

[Guest mudflap22]

I wanted the studs to be the same from side to side on the car--no right hand or left hand studs. The rotors have a gm bolt pattern--I wanted the bolt pattern to be the same front to back. Done that way , I could put a spare on any wheel location. My car has a "77 Cordoba rearend.

[Guest mudflap22]

Maybe I should mention here that, the Plymouth hub has to be removed from the Plymouth brake drum.

[Norm's Coupe]

Ryan,

Sometimes, it's best to just step up and buy one of the ready made kits. I have a P15 and could have copied Ed Gross' disc brake set up exactly. In fact, I have known Ed since sometime in the mid 90's. He doesn't live that far from me and I run into him often at shows in the area over the years. He first told me about the swap he made some years ago. However, when it came to putting disc brakes on my car, I went with the kit from ECI. Not because Ed's system isn't as good, but simply because I did not want the hassle of looking for all the parts, machining, etc. Not to mention running all over God's creation to find the parts. The nice thing about the various kits is, you can buy just the brackets, or the complete kits. If you buy just the brackets, they also tell you what other parts to buy locally to go along with the brackets. That way there is no guess work, just take your shopping list to the auto parts store, or get it all from the place you got the brackets from.

So, there is something to be said for buying a kit. Look at this way. By the time you spend the money to buy all new parts for the old drum brakes, you can almost pay for the disc kits. Looking at it that way the kits are not all that expensive.

Just my opinion, but it worked for me.

[Don Coatney]

I totally agree with Norm on this. Ed Gross stopped by my home a few years back while he was driving from Wisconsin to Florida in his beautiful P-15. I did not get a ride in his car but I did get a chance to inspect it. Superb car! He may have saved a few bucks by junkyard shopping for his disc setup but he did not add the cost of his time into his total cost of his conversion. The kits that are available today more than pay for themselves in my opinion. Spend the two hundred bucks for the kit and be done with it. What is your time worth?

[grey beard]

Hey Y'all,

Just jumped over to my favorites folder and tried this link - still works for me, and it's the entire disc brake article from the hook, complete with photos, etc. AND you can keep yer wallet in yer ole pocket, as it were . . . LOL

http://home.wi.rr.com/dndrodshop/disc.htm