denmopar

Thanks so much, guys! I feel much better about it now and I'll proceed to assemble with glee......It just seems a bit odd to my perceptions, but that only means I still have more to learn.

OK guys, I've been playing with my manual 3 speed trans from my '54 Plymouth. The topic is the input shaft pinion bearing.... It would seem simple enough, but it has me puzzled. The bearing I removed (as found) was open both sides....Likely replaced along the way at one time. The replacement bearing from a big-name Mopar vendor arrived with a metal shield on the transmission INTERIOR side of the bearing... Hmmm...Before installation, I did some pondering and wondered how, with that shield in the INSIDE, how was the bearing going to get lubrication(??) Soooo- I peeled off the metal shield. When I mentioned my actions to a well-known guru of these transmissions, he said to me (in effect): "NO! You must have that shield in place or you're going to get oil on the clutch! (Now I know why there was good reason I had oil on the clutch when I bought the car.) I asked: The shield is on the inside!....How does the bearing get lubed with that shield in the way of the oil splash? He answered: "There is enough seepage through the shield to allow lubrication of the bearing." OK- Off comes that $55 mistake and I order another bearing....Lesson learned, so I thought..... The local shop machinist, while pressing on the new bearing, expressed some doubt about that shield being on the interior side of the housing. (As I had also thought...) Now another parts guy online states the shield should be on the FLYWHEEL side of the bearing. (Side facing the front of trans.) That shield facing the outer side makes mechanical sense to me, but I'm torn between my mechanical instincts and conflicting advice.... What say ye? I'd really like to button this up for keeps. Thanks- Den-

Thanks to all. I'll begin to shop tomorrow, but more recommended vendors are welcome. Lowest cost is not my priority. Good parts delivered in reasonable time are.

Having disassembled my 1954 3 speed manual unit and with inspection, I now have a list of hard parts and gasket set to obtain. I have dealt with a couple of the mainstream vendors of Mopar with mixed results. Could some of you more experienced Mopar guys recommend a transmission parts specialist who will not attempt to send his kid through medical school on my account and who will send me the correct parts based on description and Mopar part numbers? On a technical note, since I want to fix the slight grind going up to second gear from first, I checked the 2nd gear for play (it is OK) and carefully examined the synchro (strut type) assembly for damage and wear.....The only significant wear I find is on the clutch gear sleeve.....The three cogs and centering locater nibs that the three plates slide on allowed easier manual movement than any of the others. Maybe just re-orient the gear and sleeve to an unused set of cogs? The book states to match etching on the plate and sleeve when reassembling....For the life of me, I see no evidence or hint of any "witness" marks or etching....I do realize these two components are supposed to be factory matched due to critical tolerances, but unless I can buy an affordable new set, I'll have to take my chances. Things I need to fix: Replace mainshaft rear and extension case bearings due to roughness. (Pinion shaft bearing previously replaced during first clutch job.) Order countershaft thrust spacers to get end play back into spec. Replace 1st/ Rev sliding gear. (No performance issues with that other than noticeable grind chamfering of forward edges of cogs.) A synchro repair set if available Anything else I should pay attention to while I have it apart? I appreciate any constructive advice. Den-

I think about similar capacity,...17 gallons if I recall?. New tank is slightly narrower and shorter, capacity made up by 2" more depth. Sorry- Old guy here (66) I don't recall all the figures off the top o' my balding head....

I hope this doesn't bore too many here. After the arrival of my Plymouth sight unseen except for some eBay photos (I didn't pay a lot for it.- but I'm making up for that as I go..You bet....) I noticed the bottom of the tank had been badly smashed as if it had been driven onto a rock or something....That wasn't the worst of it.....Someone in the past with a lot of copper pennies and a whole bunch of solder had patched numerous corrosion pinholes on the bottom of the tank. Must've been a couple of pounds of lead there. Upon further 'triage' I discovered the inside of the tank appeared as if it came off the Titanic.....Worst I've ever seen! It also leaked like a sieve when I added fuel..... Of course, the guage sending unit resistive element was all but non-existent. What to do??? I checked many resources only to discover the not-so-popular 54 Plymouth hasn't been chosen to have a repro tank made for it....Understandable... This is what I came up with to solve my problem. The quite ubiquitous 1957 Chevrolets can practically be reproduced out of boxes of newly manufactured parts, gas tanks included. ($100 with sending unit, shipped.) Just so happens, with both the 54 Plymouths and 57 Chevys having a fuel filler neck located at the driver's side rear corner. (Plymouths with the filler on the left side of lower body panel and the Chevy's in the left taillight trap door trim.) There was my candidate for surgery. Now to address the fuel sending unit..... The OEM 54 Plymouth fuel gauge unit (balance type) requires a variable resistance range of 10-100 ohms, with the lower resistance registering full. The replacement Chevy fuel pickup and sending unit combo that came with the new tank was 0-30 ohms, with the higher resistance registering full. (I think I'm recalling that correctly.) -- A 65 Chevrolet pickup/ sending unit has a resistance range of around 10-90 ohms but is still designed to register resistance inverse to the OEM Mopar unit.... I took the new 57 Chevy pickup/sending unit and peeled off the spot welds on the pickup tube. Purchased a repro 65 Chevy tank pickup and sending unit combo for about $35. Stripped the 65 Chevy resistance unit from its pickup assembly and soldered it backwards onto the 57 Chev pickup tube, using a sectioned piece of the still-attached 65 pickup tube as a mounting saddle of sorts.. One bend of the float arm and I snapped on the 57 float. Added (soldered) a 5 watt wirewound resistor in series with the sending unit wire inside the tank... Tested in the empty tank before installing it by turning the empty tank upside down and upright and monitoring it with my meter....A couple of tweaks and- BINGO! Replaced a section of the gauge wire to extend forward of the original location at top-center to the new location at top-front-center of the tank. This resulted in a functional fuel gauge after filling a few gallons at a time to check tracking.....Not perfect accuracy / tracking, but not too shabby either. I've seen worse on some OEM units. The new repro tank is 2" deeper, thus hangs down more, but not too obtrusive or obvious when installed. I had to remove the soldered-in original filler necks from both tanks, purchase an angled exhaust pipe section from a big box parts store and cut and braze it all together and solder it into the new tank. Fitted it with a new piece of fuel hose coupling to the original neck and cap. Installed using the two OEM straps and replacement hex nuts in lieu of the OEM barrel nuts. The vent was easy. A little bending and coupled to the original vent lines. I extended the original supply line at the lower front-left side with a 24" flared tube and coupler to the new combo pickup and sending unit located at the top-front-center of the new tank.. There ya have it....A rambling story, but one solution for a 53-54 Plymouth (and I guess Dodge) replacement gas tank dilemma.

Thanks for the kind words. Lots more for the old guy to learn here. I decided, after a brief phone chat with Randall of Tennessee Clutch, to send him my clutch parts....They're on their way there as I type this....I sent him the original set and the two new pressure plates to evaluate and determine if they are worthy of a proper setup or not. I thought I had a flange puller for the transmission....Guess I gave it away or it developed legs sometime in history.....Going to try and source one tomorrow- or concoct a homebrew if all else fails. Dennis

Yes, Don- There has to be a bright spot in all this. Trans is on the teardown bench....Oil drained- Pulling apart tomorrow- then order a gasket set , synchro parts and anything else I may need. At least I won't have to set up any torque balls....(That's a real Buick treat...) The cleaning, re-lube and rubber boot installations with pins in place on the driveshaft were an experience enough. (Now I get the concept of childbirth....Squeezing all that rubber through that relatively small area then having the relief of the boot popping out where it belongs. I've learned a bit about my Plymouth so far. Lots more to learn. Hoping for a final time next..... Den-

suntennis: Thanks for the tip regarding the leak....Seems too easy!...I was imagining some O-ring replacement involved after pulling the fixed shaft, though the "book" I have doesn't show one in the parts blowup drawing. How else can one expect a leak-free condition without seals of some sort at that location? Don- Thanks for your lead. I'll inquire tomorrow. Yes, I have the formerly rebuilt Borg & Beck ( stamped I.D.) 9 1/8" disc and the pressure plate that came with the car. (No printing or stamping I.D. just like the two new no-name units.)The chatter/ burn marks were at least evenly distributed on the old oily plate. I had checked with the only other machine shop in my area and they can't do pressure plates either, and after inquiring at Bernbaum's I was informed their reman discs had no Marcel washers either! Just straight metal (to the eyes) as my new disc has.......The OEM Borg disc has readily discernible undulations, as mentioned. My decision is to go with an honest, qualified clutch rebuilder. I did check with H&R clutches in Pennsylvania and chatted with Joe Sr. about my issues with the clutch. After talking with your recommended source tomorrow, I'll decide then. The two hundred plus bucks worth of pressure plates and disc will join my buddies scrap metal pile....Lessons learned. Thanks! Dennis

After pulling it apart and verifying with the machinist,, the flywheel was ground on a machine for just that purpose. Another look and it appears the pilot bushing is indeed bronze. This was an eBay kit from a seller with 100% feedback, so I took a chance....At $230 for the kit, it wasn't a "screamin' deal" that I would normally be wary of.... Unfortunately, I think the p/plate and disc are not any good. I see no evidence of Marcel spring undulations. Seems to be as flat as can be. Admittedly, with mild frustration, I had _lightly_ slipped the clutch with wishful thoughts of magically setting the assembly and eliminating the chatter..... This resulted in six evenly spaced hot spots on the press/plate, with two spots about one inch in length at each position, one near inner and one near outer edges on the plate, all near identical in size and shape, equidistant and centered between the three fingers. Hmmm. I'm taking all three press/plates (one used, one w/ spots and one never installed new)- to a local machine shop/ engine rebuilder to see if he can test them for flatness and even application and pressure. The shop that ground the flywheel didn't have the adapters, etc to re-surface or check p/plates. Everything is "outta the box" it seems, these days. I cleaned up the old plate- was just glazed- put patina on it with mild siphon sand blasting and cleaned assembly thoroughly....Just in case I have to resort to reusing it. Without a doubt, I will "eat" my mistake in sourcing and order a _properly_ made or rebuilt disc....Any recommendations? I've dealt with both Mitchell and Bernbaum with mixed results. This old car thing isn't like it was 20 years ago when playing with Buicks. That's all I have for info on the clutch for now.....Now I have to delve into the transmission back on the bench.....One minor oil leak from a hole located lowest-center at the bottom of case front...Appears to have a shaft or shift rail in it? Maybe a tired "O" ring seal there? That- and learning what 2nd gear synchro type before pulling it apart.

Thanks for the input! I don't know if the bushing is oilite or simply bronze. I just followed the shop manual directions. I didn't see a brass surface on the replacement throwout. The flywheel appears to have been done on a surface grinder...but I'll verify what method tomorrow. Machinist mentioned he "cleaned" it .006" if I recall. I'm pulling it apart tomorrow. A replacement press plate is waiting. I'll see if one of two places has a fixture and guage to measure for proper finger/ spring tension on the former assy. Thanks again for your insight. Den-

While I had the transmission pulled during a clutch replacement, I replaced the noisy input shaft bearing. I didn't have a seal kit yet, so I didn't pull apart the trans to see about the grinding while shifting into second from first. The gear oil level as found was low and appeared very dark, so I changed it with Walmart SAE 80W-90 (GL-5) I recently read elsewhere on the forums that this unit should have GL-1..?.. Well- so much for my wishful hoping....Never comes to pass.....It still grinds a bit when shifting unless I make a purposeful delay through the pattern. Sooo, I am pulling the unit and doing a tear-down to check the synchronizers....I read what info is in the simple 46-54 Plymouth manual and it mentions either a "pin" synchro or the "clutch" type.....A bit confused with that one. Is there a more comprehensive transmission manual covering 1954, for inexperienced Mopar guys like me? My second question has to do with clutch replacement in these little beasts: Since the clutch chattered a bit due to numerous oil leaks being blown rearward from the pan gaskets and pump cover, I order a new- not rebuilt- kit from the internet. (Made in USA, I'm told by the vendor.) I had the flywheel resurfaced at the local machine shop (he knows what he is doing.) Brand new clutch disc, pressure plate assembly, throw-out bearing and pilot bushing installed with near-surgical cleanliness, into a scrubbed and blasted clean and grease-free bell housing. Very little grease into the bushing recess per the shop manual. Clutch feels great- but chatters worse than the original.....Received a new pressure plate to try.....First time for me to have a new clutch chatter...Always a first time, I suppose.... Something I may have overlooked? Thanks for any constructive info.

First, thanks again for the sage advice offered recently regarding oil pan sealing. The old 218 doesn't leak one drop now. While re-sealing the oil pump as well, I decided to replace the Brummer seal as a precaution, since the pan was down. Oh, boy....I ordered a new seal from one of the better- known established Mopar vendors....Attempted to roll up the upper half per manual. No luck...Tore the bottom of saddle area. Tried a second seal...Made a brass "shoe horn" to ease the seal past the saddle surface on the block...No happiness with that... Loosened the man caps as far as I dare (timing chain in place.) Still no joy. Planned to pull the crank--then pondered a bit..... Now, these seals were delivered to me in a plain, unmarked plastic zip-lock bag.....Hmmmmm. I had ordered a standard set of rod inserts as well, just to bring clearances back into preferred specs.....Plain box- marked for "engine rebuilders only." -or something like that....OK- Someone bought out the contents of an independent engine rebuilder. OK. THEN it occurred to me. I ordered a third seal from another well-known Mopar vendor down South....The NOS genuine Mopar seal arrives.....I see the problem immediately! The saddle areas of the no-name seals were much thicker! No wonder I couldn't roll it up into the upper area of the block!! ...but.....the NOS seal was of the earliest vintage, per the packaging, and was petrified......Bit of rubber flaking off the impregnated fabric.....I had ordered a seal shown in a much later vintage blue and white package. After issuing my complaint, another-newer-seal was sent..Perfect and supple......Bingo! That was the charm.....Slipped in in less than five minutes.....Finally, I buttoned up the engine and ran it leak-free. So, I surmise the no-name seals were produced for installing in a block with the crank removed and not intended for slip-in service replacement as the genuine Mopar Brummer OEM seal was....I did advise the vendor. I hope no one else faces this dilemma. Just thought I should post a Heads-Up.

Thanks a lot for the verification on those saddle seals. After pressing on the end seals, I see what you mean on the compressing them to pan's dimension ....Thanks again!

Hi all- New to Mopar flathead internals, but have been turning wrenches for a few days now.( '54-55 Buicks used to be my thing.) Now it's simply a love affair with my old Belvedere. I have a question regarding the oil pan gasketing and sealing. Included in my Fel-Pro pan gasket set are two pieces of neoprene(?) rods about 1.5" long......I'm only guessing these may be to seal the junction of the front pan saddle, the rear of the timing chain cover and block rail???? I'd appreciate knowing for certain. I haven't removed the pan saddle yet, not being sure.....I only want to re-seal the pan once. The engine is in the car, running well except for the oil leakage. I am replacing the hardened rear main seal as precaution since I have the pan down. Rear main bearing insert looks nice and Plastigages @ .0015 so all is good there. Also, there are no specifics regarding the trimming of the front and rear cork sections where they join the side rail pieces....Any sage advice with that, or just rely on my intuition? I have only the run-o'-the-mill 46-54 Plymouth Service book which doesn't state much about the oil pan sealing. I've browsed all pages in the Tech section of this site with no results re: the matter. Thanks in advance for any verification or correction to my SWAG or further tips for a successful sealing job..