CTCarguy

After 4 days of pulling what little hair I have, the car runs fine. The value of this forum is again validated. While searching on coil problems I fell upon a message regarding NAPA point sets. It seemed others have had the same problem. Inside the box is what looks a little like a condenser holder but it is really a spring that must be installed on the inside of the copper spring from the points. The tension is greatly increased and I guess it keeps the contacts tight and reduces bouncing. That bouncing made my engine run terribly. Add the spring and it is fine. Thanks to all for your input and special thanks to the forum members.

Hi All: I am at my wits end trying to figure out what is wrong with my D12. I just had a valve job done and other than a little miss, it was running pretty good and then it quit on a hill. I thought I may have run out of gas so I put more gas in. Still would try to start but not run. Checked the fuel flow to the carb and it was zero. Rebuilt the fuel pump and it was running but rough.checked the fule line and it was clear, drained the gas and put fresh in. I had already bought wires, points, cap and rotor to do a tune up. (I'm sure you all knew but I found out the "universal" wire sets will not work - too much resistance for 6v. with anything but solid core. ) Marked the rotor/distributor, took it out and put in fresh points and gapped it to .020 on the bench. I checked the vacuum advance and it was toast. I got a new one and tested it before installing. Now the engine runs like it is out of time but I have checked and rechecked the firing order, the rotor position, the plug wires and everything else I can think of. It's getting fuel and I checked and #1 is firing at TDC but the light is irregular which could be the engine rpm variation or something else. I did a compression test and blow by test when the valve job was done. Could it be the coil? My neighbor said it sounded like a Harley idling. It is not drivable as the engine is breaking up all the time and pushing some oil smoke. The plugs are black as in a rich mixture. I have spent 3 days trying to solve this and I think it is electrical. Tomorrow I will get a coil. What else could it be? Sorry for being long winded but I am frustrated. Larry in CT

We will try again tomorrow. I tried the lever in both directions. It is possible( I hope not) that the trans is bad. The first time I tried it, I could not get it in gear since the gears clashed. A quick clutch adjustment fixed that. Then the shift would not go into 1st or reverse (no clash) but 2nd & 3rd were ok. When I finally got the shifter to go down when pulled in, I got 3rd! I have another transmission but would hate to have to change it now.

I finally got the 41 running but an having a problem. When I pull the shift and put in in 1st - it is 3rd. If I put it in reverse, thats 2nd. When I shift to 2nd or 3rd, no problem. I looked at the adjusting rod and tried 3 different settings, 1- no pressure on the transmission lever when in neutral, slight movement in 2/3. Here 1 and 3 were the same. 2. Loosened the rod to maximize the lever travel. Now I have 2/3 OK but the shifter won't move into 1st or reverse. (Note - in no case is the gears grinding!) 3- Adjusted per the manual - no help. This is my first time driving this car. Is the clutch supposed to be light? I have the adjusting rod for the clutch as long as it can go and it does not put pressure on the fork that would cause slippage. Engages near the top. Suggestions? FYI The fork at the bottom of the shift linkage has about 1/8 or less play. I did check the clutch before I put the engine and transmission in. This was a replacement engine/trans since the original engine burned a rod bearing. The lever on the transmission feel like it is detenting. Thanks for any help. I've got 1 week to get the car running before it goes to the AACA meet in Stowe VT.

It's ALIVE! Thanks - Problem solved. I almost put in a 8v battery but remembered I had a clamp on DC amp meter. I checked the draw with the 6v battery connected to the battery cables using a set of #2 welding wire booster cables. It was 175 amps! I then hooked up the battery directly to the battery cables and the car starts perfectly. Cleaning the started switch contacts helped as well. The low compression was caused by the slow rate the engine was turning over. It was pulling very little air in and then had little to compress. Next is checking the brakes and cleaning. Hopefully the car will be at the AACA Meet in Stowe VT on May21st in the HPOF (Historic Preservation)

FINALLY! Here is the latest (and last I hope) update on the low compression problem. I purchased a leak down tester and checked all of the cylinders at TDC. The leak down was less than 20% which is very good on a cold engine that has not run in some time. Fortunatly, I had a few of my car buddies around and they wanted to see it we could get the engine started. When cranking with a fully charged battery, it tried to fire a few times. Same situation as when I put the engine in. For HA HA's, I said lets try to start it with a quick 12v shot. It started right up. We tried the 6V battery. It cranked slowly and did not start. 12v again and it started and we switched to the 6 V battery and it continued to run. We could only run it for a few seconds because the radiator is not installed and the belt for the water pump and generator was off. A knowledgable P sieres friend told me he had the same problem and it was in the starter. The starter is turning too slow so the amount of air pulled in on intake is less than normal so the compression is lower. Damn - wish I knew this before doing valve and head gaskets. All of the electrical connections are shiny clean. I have another starter which I will try. I suspect it the switch contacts rather than the starter itself. Sorry to be so wordy but I learned a good lesson.

I did observe the pistons and valves when I had the head off. At TDC, the piston is at the top of the compression stroke and both valves are closed tight on #1. I think I read in the manual that the exhaust valve should be cracked open at TDC. With a new valve job and new head gasket, I cannot figure what is going on. I put oil in the cylinders and there is no increase in pressure so I assume the rings are OK. Could the battery be turn the engine too slow? I have all of the plugs out so there should not be much resistance. Next will be a leakdown test. I have not done one before so I will have to research how to do it. Right now, the car is stuck in 3rd gear. I need to disconnect the drive shaft because the car is on wheel dollys. Being stuck is my fault since I pit it in gear hoping to break the nut free. I have an impact wrench that just quit on me. It was a cheap one that lasted about 15 years of use. Time for a new one. This car seems to breed old tool failure. I have had 2 other air tools quit while working on this car but not my other. Old car + old tools??

UPDATE! I put in a new head gasket today and guess what..... no change. I'm thinking the valve timing is off. The problem is how to get the big nut off the crank. I have a socket to fit it and tried putting the car in gear to hold the motor steady but the nut was stronger than the cars traction. Any suggestions of how to get it off? This engine is being a pain in the ***. I want to take the car to the AACA meet in Stowe Vermont in May and hope it's running by then. Since the Allstate tires are so old, I will trailer it up and use it while there. I plan to enter it in the HPOF class (Historic Preservation of Features).

Re: the compression tester extension, I did that as well and had to replace one valve. The tester is fairly new and I used it on a ohv Pontiac engine with correct results. My other tester read zero so I am sure it is bad. That's why I may put the carb on today just to see if it fires. Next step - put in a new head gasket. Since this was the one that was in it when I got it and the readings did not change, it may be bad. It looked OK? Otherwise I will have the head checked to see if it is warped. Thanks for all of the advice. I will post what I find out. Fortunatly, I have the original engine so I may put that head on if nothing else works. I've been working on cars for about 50 years and never ran into this before. CTCarGuy

Yep. sure did. No change. Question about the head gasket, does the sealing ridge go up or down. I wonder if the gasket was put in wrong. I put it in the way I found it which was up I think. The shop manual does not show which way.

The valve job was done by a professional machine shop that is very familiar with these engines. While rotating the engine by hand, the valves open and close cleanly with what looks like about 1/4" so I don't think the cam is rounded off. I also checked that the valves closed tight and set the valve lash at .009 intake, .014 exhaust which is what my manual states for a cold engine. I think a new head gasket might help. The replacement I got was wrong. I checked the copper gasket carefully and there is no breaks crossovers.

I bought a used engine for my P12 since the original had a spun bearing. The seller told me it was running when it was removed. It's a 1947 230. After installing it, it would not start. Checked spark, fuel and timing. All OK. Did a compression test cold. All but 1 cylinder was 30 psi. The one was 50 psi. I put oil in and no change so I assumed it was valves. I have a professional valve job done. I pulled out and installed the valves and he machined them and then lapped them in. After putting the valves in (what a pain those keepers are!), I reinstalled the head and manifolds without the carb. I decided to do a compression test cold before trying to start it. Damn! the reading are the same. I even tried putting oil in check the rings. Any ideas?? I may try to start it tomorrow. The problem before was the compression was so low, it was not sucking fuel into the cylinders. HELP!

Here is the information on the whistle. http://users.erols.com/b-dwheeler/indexaermore.htm I will be a few weeks before the car will be running but I will record the sound and post it.

My P12 came with what I thought was a cut out on the exhaust. After taking a look, it is some sort of 3 tube whistle that operates off the exhaust via a cable. Anyone familiar with this? I plan to re-install it after making sure the valve is free. I attached a picture.

The spring I was referring to is the counter balance spring for the pedal. It is a little smaller than a hood spring! It took 4 hours but I did get it back on using some 3/8" steel cable and a turnbuckle. Very slow going and it must have been on and jumped off at least 20 times. When I unhooked it, I took it off from the front. There was no way to reinstall that way so I focused on the back where getting the end of the spring would be easier. I hope never to take it off again! Larry Re-commissioning a 41 P12