Wilf DeSoto

The static timing (can I call it static when the vacuum is still attached?) is so close to the stripe I made on the TDC I guesstimated that I think it's pretty close to ballpark. I think that, because I did not have time to fully load the battery after the attempts earlier, the battery had a beating. Even one of the two bridges (the cells on my battery have external bridges) was white from oxidation. But I didn't notice that after it being loaded by the fast loader (30A). The video is online now, so maybe it's interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVYsVulVX6M

Hi guys, yesterday, after making the last reply, I went back to my garage and try to start again (with some flammable spray). It stuttered and hurtled but after a few tries it ran! First there was a lot of dark blue smoke, which turned in to a lighter blue smoke, and then all the smoke was gone and it was just idling like old times. I had to twist the distributor all the way to the right though… How about that..? After it had been running a few minutes I tried to drive it out of the garage. The garage is on private property so I even tried some test rounds. Then I stopped and started a few times to make sure it started up. It did! I then leaned out the idle screw and screwed it out until the engine ran nice, this was 1 full rotation. I made a few test runs on the open road, everything went fine. I went to a gas station, filled it up, started again - just fine. Then I drove home and tried to start it after it was sitting for a while. Nothing. The starter motor turned very, very slowly and my battery was taking a pounding. I tried to cool off the engine and carburetor with a damp cloth as I thought it was probably flooded and percolating. Still nothing. When removing the air filter I saw there was no flooding, the intake was almost dry. So I pumped the gas a few times, still nothing and the battery sounded nearly dead. Between all these tries were at least 1 minute but mostly more. As the battery sounded dead I called up a friend with a serious battery charger (Snap-on 6v with Hi and Lo switch) and cycled from my home to my garage where my daily car still was. About a good ten to fifteen minutes later I was back again at the DeSoto as I wanted to try it once more before going to my friend. So I pumped once more and tried it. It first backfired, then the starter engine was picking up a little speed and the engine took over. I could drive again! I parked my daily at home and went with the DeSoto to my buddy for the battery charger. At his place I turned the car back off. After a while I tried to start but the starter motor was very slow again, but after the second try it did fire up. Then we power charged the battery and from then on starting and stopping the engine was a synch. The engine, when giving some gas at idle, seems to dip sometimes (a small stutter) but it does run. I am currently uploading a video of the car so you can see and hear it run. Now there's this other problem I still got but that's a different story (the tranny that fails to engage properly - I always have to double clutch or it will just rattle)…

I had to push the distributor all the way to the right with the screw that screws the distributor on the engine block. That brought me to about 2.5cm before my measured, "ball park" TDC. I had to also screw loose that one on the back to push the distributor even further to the right until it didn't want to go any further, now it's almost but not exactly on the TDC line I made. When marking TDC the hardest thing was that when almost on TDC the movement is very, very small, so being really precise is very hard. I did turn the engine a good few times by hand to get it as accurate as possible. Turning by hand I did by pushing down on the fan, which only works after a small nudge with the starter motor.

Hi guys, today I finally got the energy and time to work on the DeSoto. I removed the plug of cylinder #6 and tried to find TDC and made a white mark on the pullie. When I tried to start it with a strobe connected I saw that, with the timing still original, the pointer was set on a mark made by a previous owner, about 5 cm before my TDC@#6-mark. Now I tried to play with the timing to get it to TDC. I could not get to TDC with the left screw because I was at the end. But guess what: When spraying some flammable liquid into the carb it did want to fire. So I connected the throttle again and after a few tries it fired up, ran a few seconds, albeit rough, then it shook roughly, violently and was off again. After that I released the other screw on the back of the distributor and turned it all the way to almost TDC. When trying to start I made a mistake by pumping and found out it was flooded again. So I drained the intake (sucked it dry) and tried again, but nothing more. So I am thinking a few things: 1. I have no idea if the vacuum advancer works; I cannot really move it by hand. I checked it manually when it was on the test bench, there was movement, but then I could handle it easier and maybe in place it's more problematic. 2. I have put it almost on TDC without disconnecting the vacuum advance. Is this an issue..? 3. The flooding (small pool of fuel in the intake) happened, but I don't know exactly how. I have pumped the gas twice or thrice, maybe this was the cause. After sucking it dry I started the car with once again throttle disconnected and watched if I could see gas being sucked in. I did not see gas being sucked in. The idle screw is turned in 1.5 turns. 4. Maybe I should try a revised carb or revise my carb yet again, this time with all the internal parts too. Will this help?

I did not take of the carb because I already ruined the original copper insert for the fuel line and I did not have anything to catch the fuel from the pump with. I did remove the throttle linkage a few weeks ago so it's WOT (as is the choke).

I've been busy with a lot of things, so sorry for the late reply. I cannot login on every device I have. I have since my last post also tried new spark plugs, other coils, different timings. Still nothing. Somebody is going to help me though, so maybe I will get it up and running soon again.

Okay, it does make sense probably… My good friend / mechanic also told me to adjust the valves first, then go on from there.

That's the visible valve when removing the spark plug.

I turned the distributor as far as I could to the right so the points open later, I thought a retarded ignition is maybe easier..? Still no pop. I just changed out the original coil with one I got from someone who converted his 1950 Pontiac L8 to 12 volt. This coil sounds watery when shaking while mine does not make a sound when shaking. This coil also makes no difference.

I just put a plastic probe stick in cyl 6 and when TDC the gap is open on the rotor @ 6.

Short update: definitely not 180 degree off: intake valve of 6 goes up after rotor passes 1, then closes before rotor goes to 6. That would not happen in the exhaust stroke.

Yup, my bet is that the previous problems were with flooding / vapor lock as they were always occurring during traffic jams, while standing at a traffic light or at a gas station. I do have the heat shield in place at the fuel pump though. The rough idling after long drives are probably more related to the current non-start-problem. Before removing the distributor I spinned the engine by hand to the opening of the gap on cylinder one (this also explains why for user greg g). Then I made marks with a flat thin screwdriver and with a paint marker (screw driver in case the paint would wipe off). I marked the exact position of the nuts, bolts, cap, wires… everything. After replacing everything I made sure I already put the distributor back to the opening gap of cylinder 1 before putting it back. It almost immediately slided right in. A turn by hand of the engine made sure it was in place. That's why I know it was back in place. A timing light will leave me exactly nowhere since previous owners have removed the damper/pulley a few times and put it back shifted a few times too. So there are several markings on it that make absolutely no sense and there is no factory marking in sight. I will try to shift the timing again today by finding the TDC of cylinder 6 and seeing if the gap is open right then. Should it be just opening or fully open? The coil should be fine, it measured out quite good (resistance) and the spark looks fine too. I have to add this: After removing the original distributor I noticed that the internal cable running through the housing to the coil had worn down insulation. This could have been a big problem of course. I replaced the wire by a new one with heat shrink insulation around the terminals to make sure the new one would in no way shorten out. I also replaced the external wire (going from the terminal of the distributor to the coil) since that one was a bit worn too. Thanks again for all the replies, they help me a lot and give moral support too. I'm going to the DeSoto now to try them out.

Don't worry, I didn't take offense, I understand you're trying to help.

I did not check the condensor as such, I just replaced it with the one from Andy Bernbaum. I did check the coil (measured resistance and compared it with known standard values online and with another 6V coil I got from somebody else from a working car as a backup - that one has significantly worse resistance, 3kOhm vs mine with about 6kOhm, so I didn't change it). I also checked everything by sparking with the spark plugs on the engine AND with spark plugs laying on the engine & seeing them spark.

For you it's humor, for me it's inexplicable. See, I drove this car for three years now. Last year it did fail more and more when driving in traffic (it would sputter more and more until it would stop completely, I'd had to wait 15 minutes before it would start again). This first happened in severe traffic jams, then also sometimes at traffic lights and one of the last times I drove the car it happened while driving in a corner. All those times it did eventually start after 15 minutes waiting for it to cool off. The car also was really hard to start cold after a long winter break but it did eventually start, with a blue cloud. Now nothing. Not one misfire. I tried starting and starting until the entire intake was flooded. I cleaned it out and started again. Nothing. Then I cleaned the carb and changed the spark plugs. Nothing. I doesn't flood anymore but still nothing. In that time I didn't change ANYTHING on the ignition. As the spark plugs are captured inside a metal casing which the coil is screwed on it was impossible to switch the plug wires. I did number them on both sides though. After all that and more it just didn't want to fire. Then I proceeded to mark every screw, nut, bolt on the ignition, had the timing on the first cylinder etc. etc. and hen changed the ignition stuff out, then put it back together. That's why for me it's just unimaginable the timing is the culprit as it was the last thing I changed and I marked everything as it was and put it back together as it was. I checked it a quadruple of times, with the work shop manual and all of the paint. The ignition cap has an orientation slit and before putting it on I also numbered that one, just in case. After removing the distributor I locked the rotor in place. It's not 180 degrees off, I put it back together on the same place and it fit immediately and it turns perfectly. The points were open when I removed it and they were open when I put it back together, both at 7 o clock, cylinder 1. Of course I will check it again when I have the opportunity (car is a few miles from here) but it's just so illogical to me. The oil pump was not removed so the timing should be good. Unless it is the oil pump that has problems and shifted somehow.

No, I didn't try that. I have put the ignition on the same setting as I removed it and I have advanced and retarded it. To no avail. I will ask someone to start while I turn the ignition.

Greg G: The flooding problem went away after the refurbish and after stopping with trying to start it pumping the gas. I am 100% sure the wires and rotor are correct since I am the only one with a key to my garage and I numbered every single cable and I put paint on every bolt and nut before ever removing anything. I removed the dizzy when pointing to #1 (7 o clock, points open) and put it back together the exact same way (7 o clock, points open). I have checked the cables multiple times. Nothing has changed since the last time I drove the car. I have already put new oil in it (drained the old of course, with the front at an angle so the oil pan drained completely). It does not even remotely tries to fire when spraying flammable liquids in the orifice (with everything WOT, no flooding in the intake). @ Marty: Those are out as well of course. Everything is loose but I don't know how to get the darn thing out since it wants to go down at the wheel well side (passenger side) and the front side wants to stay put. The front side will not lower any further because there's a brake line in the way.

Thanks, I read the booklets. I will check the TDC of cylinder #6 too. In the meantime I've been trying to remove the inner fender to get to the valve but cannot get it out. How do I go about? All screws are out. I had to remove a lot of rust inhibitor (tarry stuff) but still the panel is very snugly fit on the front end.

RIch, all that info I got (it's in the shop manual) and I'm 100% sure I removed and reinstalled everything in the same order as I photographed and marked everything, from the firing order on the cap to the spark plug wires, the engine head, the distributor position, the position of the distributor plate on itself etc. etc. The flat spot on the balancer is off by about 70 degrees or so (maybe more, maybe less) so that probably has been removed at some point. When putting it back together the previous owner down the line did paint the TDC on the balancer again (more or less) and I've checked the location of that paint spot from the arrow before and after removal and installation. Everything remained the same. I also quadruplechecked the timing. The engine had not been moved after removal of the distributor and I removed it with #1 TDC and placed it back exactly the same; #1 at about 7 o clock, points open. I also did a compression test (manually turned the engine, watch for closing intake valve, put thumb over #1 spark plug gap, turned until no more pressure, opened the distributor cap, saw rotor on 7 o clock and gap open. Before and after the ignition update I put the spark plugs loosely on the engine, thus with some extra resistance. Nevertheless in both cases there was spark. Before the new ignition stuff the spark was blue and after changing everything the spark was fatter and more towards a white color. I cannot imagine anything being wrong on this point with the fuel and ignition so it must be the compression.

Yes I read that and got it, the only thing missing was how to apply pressure (safely), therefore my question I have a compressor and I have an air gun for it, so I can use that safely I now understand. I have driven this car the last three years for about 6000 miles, it did gradually have more difficulty to start when hot over the last few years. I first though it was due to vapor lock. When the car was hot and I was at a petrol station it wouldn't fire up. Also when I was in a traffic jam it would stall and never fire up. I had to wait for about 15 minutes before it would run again. On the first page, post #9, one can hear how the car ran last year. Maybe that helps telling the tale of what is really wrong..? It did have this rumbling sound as one can hear in the movie.

Thanks, I really should do the leak test, but how do I go about doing this safely? I have a compressor but that thing makes about 6,5 bar. Wouldn't that be too much? How should I apply pressure in the leak test?

This weekend I changed the oil and tried to start the engine / clean it by pouring a bit of oil in the cylinders with a pipette and starting it with WOT and choke WO. I boost started it with a Snap-On garage help starter delivering an extra 60 Amps, this did give the starter engine a lot of oomph and speed but there was not the slightest rumble or bang, not even when I did close the choke and throttle again. Furthermore I did a compression test with an old tool I don't know the correctness of. This was how I did the test: - I removed all the spark plugs, plug wires and the coil wire - Someone cranked the engine four times per measured cylinder - I wrote down the following measurements (in chronological order): Cylinder # - Pressure in pounds: 1 - 60 2 - 57 3 - 45 4 - 52 5 - 53 6 - 46 I then took a flexible pipette and poured a small amount of oil into the cylinder that I measured. I decided to measure backwards this time. With oil: 6 - 42 5 - 53 4 - 54 3 - 50 2 - 56 1 - 50 The starter engine did lose more and more torque due to the battery not being full according to my battery charger. That's why I also reversed the second measurement to be sure it wasn't lower in the back of the engine due to loss of compression due to slower cranking. So how should I interpret these values..? (I'll edit in some photos later when my phone likes me enough to share them again)

A friend of mine also thinks the compression is too small, the exhaust valves are probably stuck, burned of have too much play. I'll try to gap them correctly first. I have spend a lot of hours removing anti rust muck from the right wheel well. I cannot see it completely but it looks like I have to remove the part below the flat plane where the air inlet resides above. On the right are two bolts and on the rest are about eight screws right up to the end of the wheel well. Is this about right?

Yup, when I just lay the spark plugs on the engine they spark bluish white. Much whiter than before I changed all the distributor parts and plugs. There is compression (measured by thumb and very clear when starting with one spark plug out -> rapid acceleration of engine on that cylinder) but I did not measure it with any gauges. I will put some oil in it tomorrow. Somebody else told me I would best adjust the valve. I read this is a tedious chore so I hope it will start tomorrow another tip I read on the technical forum was checking the TDC on cylinder 6.

I replaced it, did not measured it. I will try the oiling tip next time.