Timing A Flathead

[woodie49]

I am new to your forum and really hoping for some help. I bought a '49 Plymouth Woodie recently, my first flathead. It runs OK, but not with a lot of power. I have between 88 and 90 Lbs compression across all six. It does not sound like it misses, but has no top end. It starts very hard, hot or cold.

When I time it, the timing light shows the timing mark to be a good three inches from the pointer - that would have to be something like 60 degrees? advance. I don't think that is possible and still be running. I am already at full advance on the adjustment. Pulling the screw and advancing more makes little difference. I really cant get the timing marks to align. Seems really strange.

I am wondering if the balancer is installed wrong?

My #1 plug is at about 7 oclock, but, in that position, my points are on the bottom - doesn't seem like it should matter, but the manuals all show the points essentiall on the top.

For this motor, I should be at TDC. It can't be that far out and still be running. Any thoughts?

If I put piston 1 at the top of the compression stroke, should the timing mark align with the pointer??

I am pretty lost on this. There must be a systematic way to track this down, but I don't know it. Thanks for any help!

[Don Coatney]

Woodie49;

Welcome to the forum. You need to fill out your profile so we all know a bit more about you such as where you are located. Someone on this forum may be near you and able to help. First thing you need to do is go read everything on the main page supporting this forum. Here is a link.

http://www40.addr.com/~merc583/mopar/framesets/welcomeframeset.html

Next thing you need to do is buy a manual for your car. They are available on ebay and other sourses you can find in the links section in the above link.

When you say "My #1 plug is at about 7 oclock, but, in that position, my points are on the bottom " does not make a lot of sence to me. Where the points are located inside the distributor cap has no bearing on engine timing. Rotor position is what is important.

[woodie49]

Hi Don. Good advice, I want back to round out my profile a little.

I did buy manuals for the car - first thing because I have always used them, even when I know what I am doing. I do find the Mopar manuals I have a bit underinformative. I am looking for a Chilton shop manual or something of that era that I think will go into more detail.

Regarding the timing issue - I agree that the position of the points inside the distributor should make no difference. The only question i have is, if the distributor were rotated 180 degress, could that be why it appears I still need to advance my spark, but I have reached the limit on my adjustment bracket.

Still have the bigger issue that it appears #1 is firing WAY after TDC. It looks like a good 3 inches - what do you think the circumference of the dampener is? Maybe 12"?. So, it does seem impossible and I can only conclude that the timing mark on the dampener is off. In a chevy I would just put #1 to TDC and I would know where the timing mark on the balancer SHOULD be, and I could mark it and time with a strobe. I assume that I should be able to do the same for the flathead, except it is not very straight forward figuring out where TDC on #1 is, because the plug is over the valves, not the piston, and I am honestly still trying to get past the marks on the balancer and believing that it would be nearly impossible to install the balancer wrong.

Something is way off though, given the strong compression and the really crummy engine performance. With a rebuilt card and new igniton components - sounds like timing.

Also, the valves are about as clattery as I have heard on a running motor, but I have a hard time attributing the poor performance to that. Although, once I really figure out how, I will adjust those too. Again, the manual is not as explicit as i would hope. Remember, I didn't even know where that valve covers were until a few days ago.

[Jim Yergin]

woodie49, you might want to go to the main site P15-D24.com as Don suggested and check out the "Tech Tips" section on static timing. I would turn the engine until the distributor rotor is at 7 o'clock and see where your timing mark is in relation to the pointer. Also, though it probably is not your problem, there should be two different bolts to loosen to adjust the distributor. One is the one that holds the distributor bracket to the block and the other is the one that holds the bracket to the distributor. You can "play" with both of them to alter the range of adjustment.

Jim Yergin

[Reg Evans]

Woodie49, There is a small plug on the head over the #6 cylinder. Remove that and insert a 6" or longer straight piece of wire in there and turn the engine by hand. You will see the wire move up and down and you can find TDC when the wire has raised to it's highest point. The second 7/16" bolt for adjusting the dist. is located on the bottom of the dist.

I have heard a time or two of the timing chain cover being swapped on these engines and the pointer not being in the correct position for your engine. If that turns out to be the case you'll have to make some new marks with paint.

[woodie49]

Reg and Jim -

Thank you guys. This is great input. I did not know that the timing bracket is adjustable at the distributor!. I have reviewed the static timing advice, but given the amount of variance to the timing mark, I was concerned that I might not be starting at TDC. Now I know how to make certain I am at TDC and I will be able to determine if my timing mark is whare it should be.

I feel kind of stupid with this engine because with a Chevy I would have been burning gas a week ago! Frustrating to be in foreign territory, but I am having an awful lot of fun. I can't wait to get home tonight.

When I replace the plug over #6, is it self sealing or do I just use a gasket sealer or something? I am sure if it leaks I'll hear it.

Thanks guys.

[Tom Skinner]

Woodie,

I have the same problem with my 1948 Royal C-38 6 Cylinder 250.6

There are no calibration marks on my Crankshaft Torque Wheel

and I seem to be advanced about 3" on the Exhaust Manifold

side of my Wheel in order to achieve power with a timing light.

I had a chaulk mark on it when I bought the car used it as a guide when timing it, and havent re-painted one on it yet to show at the Pointer.

so I guess I will have to find TDC and mark it appropriately also.

Any other ideas out there?

I heard an old timer say once you have to run them advanced 7-15degrees

to get any real power out of them. Advance it to much and it runs hot.

I would think just enough to hear a ping under full throttle between

10-25mph is enough.

Tom

[Tom Skinner]

Woodie,

I just now took a brass brush and cleaned my torque wheel

and found my timing marks!!!

They are there you just need to brush it clean.

Tom

[james curl]

I had my damper rebuilt by the "Damper Doctor" and when I installed it on my 41 Dodge 218 engine it was about 90 degrees off. I called and he said that it was indexed properly. I told him that it was not for my engine. He had me mark where TDC was in relation to the key in the crankshaft and return it to him. He pulled it apart and rebuilt it to my marks and it fit my engine correctly. If the rubber bond fails, the marking can shift. If it has then the ring with the timing marks has slipped and the damper needs to be replaced or rebuilt so that the markings are in the correct location.