James_Douglas Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 After trying everything in the book (many many books) for many months there is nothing left to do but to pull my "new" transmission and OD out. I continued to drive it in the vain hope that it would correct itself. Several people have checked all the control systems and they are better than factory. The problems are getting worse and it is a matter of time until the thing fails in the worst possible place -70 MPH on a crowded highway. The symptoms all point to an intermittent mechanical failure in the unit. Something in the balking ring, the pawl (or raceway), or the lockout rail is and has been wrong scince it was delivered. Sunday and Monday I will pull it all out. We will take apart both the transmission and the OD. I plan on documenting and photographing every single part as it comes out. I will post the findings when I have them. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Hemingway Posted May 28, 2008 Report Share Posted May 28, 2008 James. I'm sorry to hear that you are going to have to take that new trans & OD apart so soon. Good luck and I hope that you find the problem. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackster Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Sorry to hear about the troubles you have had to endure with the OD unit. You are a big help here and I am learning as much as my little brain can hold on this matter. Thanks for documenting and posting for us rookies here. Mack G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted May 29, 2008 Report Share Posted May 29, 2008 Good luck James. Hope the problem isn't too hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2008 I could get used to this... My friend’s son who is 22 wanted to get some "wrench time" on an old car. So I directed and he stayed on his back and took everything apart to pull the trans & OD. I only got under to help with the physical pull. Very nice not being on the cold floor. It took 1.75 hours to get the things out. Now to open the thing and see what is not working in the OD. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 The shop that I took the transmission to looked it over from the outside, and tested the engagement of the pawl using a tool that they maid up. They did not "feel" anything was wrong and are hesitant to open it up without a problem that is not intermittent in nature. They walked me to the rear of their shop and in a pile of parts the size of two automobiles that pulled out several MOPAR overdrive transmissions. The dug into the pile until they found a 3-speed with OD that was for a fluid drive car. They told me to clean it up and put it into the car. No charges as yet. If the old gunked up transmission works, then the rebuilt transmission does in fact have a problem. If the gunked up transmission shows the same intermittent problems as the rebuilt transmission then my control systems are at fault. Does anyone know what a transmission with the transmission case ID of 63379-8 and is stamped on the flange with 11-16-55 CK OD came out of? My rebuilt unit has a transmission case casting number of 140851-10 and is stamped on the flange with 10-27-5(3 or 8) K ODH. So, off to the garage to clean the messy transmission up and stick it in. Well, I will go get the crud off the replacement unit and stick it in and see what happens. I will keep you posted, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle-Pekka Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 ...They walked me to the rear of their shop and in a pile of parts the size of two automobiles that pulled out several MOPAR overdrive transmissions.The dug into the pile until they found a 3-speed with OD that was for a fluid drive car... James, If there is a shop at your neighborhood, that has A PILE of fourties Mopar OD transmissions... How about mailing me the contact of these guys? Any idea what they would be asking for a working OD which would fit in to a 3-speed D24 fluid drive car? I would instantly arrange freight to Finland... Thanks, Pekka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 The dug into the pile until they found a 3-speed with OD that was for a fluid drive car James; Was there ever a factory overdrive for a fluid drive car? I have never heard tell of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normspeed Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Isn't that what Blueskies bought the first time when he started his OD install? Had a longer input shaft I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 1955-6 Dodges also use a long input shaft but a little different than Fluid Drive input shafts. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 James;Was there ever a factory overdrive for a fluid drive car? I have never heard tell of one. Don, Dodge used that arrangment. Thre was a WWII swing song that had a line about a 3-speed with fluid drive... James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50PlymouthSled Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Pekka, I know some junkyards out here with that stuff. I can check on, if you'd like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Don,Dodge used that arrangment. Thre was a WWII swing song that had a line about a 3-speed with fluid drive... James James, is the OD you mention for the 3 speed standard or the M6? Is there an OD for the M6? Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle-Pekka Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Pekka, I know some junkyards out here with that stuff. I can check on, if you'd like... THANKS! I'll send you PM. /Pekka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Pat, There is no OD for the Semi-Auto. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 However, There is a 3-speed with OD for fluid drive. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 We got the test 3-speed with OD into the Desoto yesterday. The thing took a little elbow grease to get the surface rust off of the shaft so that the clutch disk would move freely on it. Lucky for me I had a spare clutch disk to use to test it before we tried to put it in. I swapped the governor and the reverse lockout switch from the production (Asche) transmission to the test unit. I flushed the unit out a couple of times and that was about it. The linkage bolted right up and I made no changes to it. It is interesting in that this old transmission “feels” different than the Asche unit. The car ran around the block fine with the OD locked out. All gears working. However, there is quite a bit of noise when decelerating from about 5 MPH to zero. I think a bearing is showing its age or a main shaft has some wear. I pushed in the cable and took it for a drive, both city and highway, and the overdrive worked as it is supposed to. Given the intermittent nature of the Asche OD failure, I cannot at this point conclude anything. I will drive it for a very long freeway drive today or tomorrow and see what it does. As an aside I can tell you all that the test OD “seems” to be much smoother in its engagement than the Asche unit. Also, I do not seem to see as much of a jump on the AMP gauge when the governor grounds and energizes the solenoid circuit. The test transmission clearly does not have the “fast second gear”. I can provide a direct comparison between the two: The “regular” second gear does in fact make it much better to accelerate a larger car here in San Francisco city driving. A noticeable improvement. The car reaches that “spot” RPM wise were one wants to shift, but, the car speed has not yet reached 27 to 30 MPH for the OD to kick in. You can hold second gear a bit longer (more RPM) and get there, but it is not a “natural” driving feeling. You can shift into third and then let the OD kick in, but then you are lugging it a bit. It seems that the two second gears are a trade off. If you want to use the OD in city traffic and not have to shift in and out of third gear then the fast second gear is well spaced ratio wise. The trade off is a slower start off at a stop light or sign. However, if the car is a big sedan and has fluid drive using the OD in second gear as a ‘city automatic”, with the fast second gear, will be at the expense of a more natural acceleration from a dead stop. I need to drive it for a few more days to really decide which gear is better in a busy driving environment. More on the field results later. Best, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 We did a long 2 hour drive yesterday to continue with the loaner transmission test. I did freeway, expressway, and city roads. The OD worked without a miss in both 2nd and 3rd gear. The loaner transmission is making a lot of noise at slow speed or in neutral. Given that it was a grease and rust ball that had not been in a car in years or decades and I just cleaned it up and did a simple flush of oil ---that is no wonder. Interestingly however the transmission seem more quite at freeway speed that the Asche transmission. It is noticeably quieter. How very odd. I have to say that the numerically lower 2nd gear seems to be a better gear for acceleration from a dead stop than the fast 2nd gear. In the city environment this test is making me wonder if the lower 2nd is not a better way to go. Especially in a larger car or with fluid drive. I have to get to about 2400-2500 RPM with this gear to hit 27-30 MPH for the governor to ground and the OD to shift. The fast 2nd defiantly feels more natural to drive if you want to use the 2nd gear and a 2nd OD shift. However, as I said in my last post, your take off with the fast 2nd gear is a lot slower. I suspect that a bearing or a gear has issues with the test unit and I would not want to keep it in a car for an extended period. However, for a few weeks of testing it will be ok---I hope. At this juncture it appears that there is in fact something amiss in the Asche transmission. I am using the same and un-touched control systems. I moved over the rail electrical switch, governor, and solenoid. The linkage was not touched in any way. Over the next 2 weeks I will continue to test and see if the test OD fails to engage and/or it jump’s out of OD in 3rd gear running down the freeway as the Asche transmission has been doing. If the testing over the next couple of weeks yields the same results as yesterdays two hour drive test, then the evidence supports the conclusion that the Asche transmission, as delivered, does in fact have a problem in the OD unit. Look back in a week or two to see a follow up. Best, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 James; Have you disassembled the Asche transmission yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_Douglas Posted June 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 James;Have you disassembled the Asche transmission yet? Don, I have not. I am waiting to run the test trans for a couple of weeks. If the test indicated that the issue is with the Asche trans then I will tear it down. If the test shows that it is a control system issue then there is no point of taking the Asche trans apart. I have not seen the package yet by the way. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 James; I mailed the package early last week. You should see it early this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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