Hard Starting Part 2

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, went out the Chrysler den last night. It was around 32 in the garage, I have the heat off in there right now.

I first cleaned battery posts, re-tightened clamps, they were clean to begin with as they are new.

Checked all high tension wires, all seated well in the dist cap, all are brand new last summer.Went to fire up engine, it was turning over okay, but took several; cranks to fire, again once started the carb had to clear itself.

The carb body was soaked, this leads me to believe my problem is igntion or timing or some other eletrical connections.

Will have a look at the points next, my plugs were new 2 years ago, but have last then a few hundred miles on them, they looked good on inspection, they are Autolite plugs.

One other thing, I did have the coil primary wires hooked up wrong for a while, could this have damaged the coil.

The primary lead wire to the dizzy was in rough shape, and not a very thick gauge, I did attach it to a better lead, but maybe it should have been replaced all the way to the dizzy connection.

So does anybody have any ideas on this..........Fred

[Lou Earle]

I ran an A model for years hooked up backwards- just switched them and all was fine- Doubt you can damage it by reversing- but you will have a miss or lack of power over 45 mph

Lou

[55 Fargo]

Hi Lou, I do not have is any power issue or miss over 45 mph, as I connected the coil the right way in the early fall. Infact, the car has lots of go after 45 mph, I have had it up to 55 mph or so. With the smithy muffler, no tail pipe yet, no carpet on floor, this thing is noisy over 50 mph. Is this the case with most of you who ran glasspack mufflers. At first I thought it was the engine making the noise, well it is but in the form of exhaust, the engine did sound quite busy at 45 mph when I had the 4.30 diff, now that I have the 3.73 diff its busy sounding after 55mph.........Fred

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, was up till 1:30 am trying to solve this starting problem.

Discovered solenoid switch was gtting hot after a few cranks, had a spare so replaced that baby, cleaned up cable from solenoid to starter.

Pulled dizzy cap, points were no where near .020, they were more like .010, adjusted these, then car would not start, engine flooded, battery going dead.

Hooked up battery charger, pulled dizzy, replaced with a spare dizzy, that is also in great shape, so I thought.

Engine still won't start, pull dizzy back and rotate the rotor 180 degrees, thinking I had it in wrong, not sure why I thought that cuz I looked at the position before pulling the other dizzy.

So I pull it back again, and change position, by this time I am tired, get mixed up, kinda like in the bush when you get turned around, hunters and soldiers that fought in jungle warfare will understand this one.

Pull this dizzy, replace with old one, after setting points to .020, reset the timing adjsuters to both dead center.

No spark from coil wire, change wires, notice the brand new Roberts wire, is cracked all up on the insulation already, check with Ohm meter, no continuity.

Try to get spark with different coil, still no spark engine won't start, carb is flooded like I have never seen before.

I re-intall the original coil, pull back dizzy, reinstall it 180 degrees different.

I then try and start engine, voom she starts quite easily, very flooded, clears itself quickly. I had to open my overheads in garage, its only about 15 above outside, it was 53 inside.

I hooked the battery charger up, it was now 1:30 am,let it charge over night, this morning the engine starts with ease even though the garage temp is 39 degrees inside, the starter is turning the engine over a lot quicker with the newer solenoid and charged battery.

The timing is probably out a bit yet, I need a tach/dwell to set things up properly.

I wonder if I should replace alll of my battery cables to 2/0, I have #1 cables right now, that are new, would the heavier cables make a big difference.

What a night that was, only a seriously obsessed Mopar Madman would do such a thing...............Fred

[Young Ed]

Fred 1 guage is OEM spec so I should think that is good. I wouldn't throw new cables away just yet.

[Normspeed]

Glad you got her running. I wouldn't worry much about the coating on the plug wires. Mine are the shiny black varnished looking ones, and the coating does tend to crack a bit with use.

[62rebelP23]

i was having trouble starting my 52 the other day/evening and had to give up as it was cold and dark (dang Alberta clipper, GO AWAY). little relief this morning so decided to delve deeper into the problem; my electric choke isn't working. i HAD thought that the fuel pump was going bad, so took off the carb top and saw float bowl full. switched on ignition and choke heater didn't move.... wedged a screwdriver under the linkage and it fired right up. mind you, this car still has the old grungy battery cables and what must be original ignition parts.... except for plug wires and plugs. i have the old copper wire plug wires still... might put them back on.

[greg g]

The choke motor functions to pull the choke off as the engine warms up. the closing part is mechanical (spring based) To set it you need to floor the accelerator pedal.

That does three things, adds a squirt from the acc pump. closes the choke butterfly, and sets the high idle cam on the carb linkage. Your job as the driver in this cold start process is to hold the gas pedal down about 1/3 of the way while the starter is cranking.

If those three things are out of synch, your car isn;t gonna start right or run well cold. If the choke motor isn't working properly, it will not pull the butterfly open and your car will not run right when warm.

[Normspeed]

The Mopar Sisson chokes are sure a crazy setup. A wire goes to the starter, that snaps the choke shut when you hit the key. As soon as it starts and you release the key, that part disconnects, and the thermostatic part on the exhaust manifold takes over. Mine worked great.

When I went to the duals I took out all the choke related parts including the butterflies and choke shafts. Recently, in NM, I was parking outside overnight in temps around 18-20 degrees F. 15w40 motor oil. With the electric fuel pump, I could pump it 2-3 times and after a couple of stumbly attempts it would fire right up. Sounded kinda like an old aircraft motor starting up and smoothing out. But, it wanted to be warmed up for 5-10 minutes before driving.

BTW, time will tell, but so far that Amsoil 10w40 gear oil in th OD trans is great. No hard shifting at all when cold. Before, with 85w90 in there, it needed to get warm before it would hit second without a little backtalk.

[Lou Earle]

You said

"The timing is probably out a bit yet, I need a tach/dwell to set things up properly." I agree but you cna really get it near perfect this way:

1 remove the dist noting where the rotor button is pointing- I draw a circle and mark it ion paper.

New points- set on 20- I set mine where feeler gage just slips in and out with ease.

2- re install distributor. Now turn engien over to pointer is right on tdc and the rotor is pointing at # 1 plug. If you cannot get it to exact tdc with starter remove plugs and bump it or turn with fan but it must be exactly on tdc. ( Dodges are different- 3 degrees I think).

NOW take test wire or make one with alligator clips at each end and attach one end to your test light pointer. Attach the other end to the side of the dist. Now attach the test light alligator clip to the moving side of the points.

Turn ignition on or run hot wire to distributor.-

3-Rotate the distributor until light is off. Then turn slowly until light comes on.

Now you are at firing at tdc. Clamps her down and you are done.

This is the way you must do a A model ford or you will go insane trying to set timing!1 And it works on any car that has a point system.

Now if you go to start your car and it kicks back a bit it is firing a bit early and you should try and retard spark just a hair-. This method has served me well for 25 or so years on old cars.

Lou

[Normspeed]

That method works great. I used to time VWs that way. As far as a tach dwell, I've always had great results with just a flat .020" feeler gauge, especially on fresh new points. Later I use a dwell meter to make quick checks for correct gap without needing to remove the cap and rotor. It's always a good idea to give the cap, rotor and points a visual check though.

[55 Fargo]

Thanx very much Lou, will try this out. I have seen this procedure done in the Chrysler shop manual, using some fancy light gizmo gadget, the idea works similar to what you have detailed.............Fred