E 15 Fuel

[Roger Blagborne]

     Watch out.....Starting May 1 ,some Fuel Stations will start carrying E 15 fuel (15% ethanol)   if you thought E 10 was bad now its 50% worse.  Problem is... labeling can be vague or non existant, because service stations may not (almost guranteed not) have storage and pumps for yet another grade level so will offer E15 rather than E 10 because it is cheaper and may not tell you about it.

    Please note..... E15 is only for cars manufactured after 2001 and is not to be used for older vehicles, small engines, motorcycles, boats etc.......So if you only use the cheapest gas you can find , you are in for complete failure of your flat head six due to fuel system failure in the not so distant future.   

Cheers

    

[Tom Skinner]

Roger,

Thanks for the heads up. I can get ethanol free gas here in NC so I am assuming that won't hit here, but we all know what assume means.

I really think if politicians (by the way we have the best politicians money can buy here in the States) wanted to solve oil/gas shortages they would

re-institute the 55mph. Speed Limit. Tests have shown that traveling 55 -62 mph. saves 17 -19% gas consumption. The problem is everyone is so stressed out over being late for their job etc. they drive 75 -85mph. and their cars use that extra 17-20% gas. Just plain ignorant is the only explanation I have.

Tom

[Plymouthy Adams]

the ole saying, if you don't like following me to work, leave home earlier comes to mind.  If I got to work late, I got to work late, was not going to kill myself or anyone else just to make up a minute on the road, told my boss that, the subject never came up again....I was rarely late....but the truth still stands....I get there a few minutes late and work my shift or I get there, someone gets snotty, I go home for the day.  

[Sniper]

It is not uncommon for my daily drive to the job site to start at 2 hours, each way.  At 75, I do the speed limit.  Dropping it to 55 would add almost an hour to that minimum.  No, I cannot move closer to work since I am a field service engineer and work covers all of west Texas and the panhandle.

[Tom Skinner]

Plymouthy,

I always got to work an hour early and left a half hour early to beat the rush hour traffic. I'm retired now so no more issues. But yes people care more about

their paychecks and jobs than they do about the safety of others. The new cars don't weigh anything are built like garbage wear out once they're paid for, and cost an arm and a leg. Most new models one cannot even change the oil on. Service nightmares. I blame the public for excepting junk and electing knuckle Heads that take kick back money to shove corn into our gas. 

Ahh but we are here to fix cars not talk politics. A temporary 55mph. or 60mph. ban would save a lot of people a lot of money but ignorance and stress wins the day.

Lets dump more garbage into their gas, LOL.

Tom 

[Sniper]

Nothing stopping anyone from doing 55 on the highway.

 

 

[Doug&Deb]

I wonder if the ethanol resistant components I used to rebuild my carb and fuel pump will hold up to the extra ethanol content. We’ll see. With prices rising daily I’m using the cheapest gas available and sadly my Coronet is not getting driven much. Between my daily commute and mowing three acres I’m spending quite enough on gas.

[Plymouthy Adams]

6 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Nothing stopping anyone from doing 55 on the highway.

 

 

I agree...just be in the right lane when doing it....!   The industry is built around new cars and new regulations, they care less for the small percentage of old cars struggling along the highways.....odds are the number of cars in your area at age 15 is slim.  They just do traded in for dependability....in the north...older cars such as 15 and so get reserved for winter time beaters where they are sacrificial lambs seasoned with highway salts.  

[Plymouthy Adams]

12 minutes ago, Doug&Deb said:

I wonder if the ethanol resistant components I used to rebuild my carb and fuel pump will hold up to the extra ethanol content. We’ll see. With prices rising daily I’m using the cheapest gas available and sadly my Coronet is not getting driven much. Between my daily commute and mowing three acres I’m spending quite enough on gas.

I mow some 3 acres....so far this year however the drought has saved me some time and fuel.  But hey it is only a couple dollars more.....I bet you don't blink twice at the 2.25 soda at the fast food joint that is like maybe 12 cents cost and you have to prepare your own drink at many.  Thinking a few head of grazers would be best...goats are quiet interest, fun to watch, great for mowing and the benefit of their rapid incline in population will set a few nice meals on the table.  I kept one in my back yard long ago and never had to mow, richest thickest grass ever.  

Edited May 1 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sam Buchanan]

If I got to work late I went home early to make up for it.............

[matt167]

My ‘51 is the only thing I own that I’ll worry about keeping ethanol free in, and that’s because I’m not sure if the carburetor was ever rebuilt compliant or not but it works perfectly so I don’t chance it. 

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, matt167 said:

My ‘51 is the only thing I own that I’ll worry about keeping ethanol free in, and that’s because I’m not sure if the carburetor was ever rebuilt compliant or not but it works perfectly so I don’t chance it. 

 

Only thing in the carb that is immersed in gasoline is the accelerator pump plunger, it is leather.  Rebuilt mine 5 years ago, no issues with ethanol.

 

15% is not going to change that.

[Roger Blagborne]

   Boy...this thread went off in weird directions......newer components say "Ethanol Resistant"  not proof.....more ethanol less resistance...less mileage....more maintenance costs....way more vapor lock......I was just trying to give a heads up for those who might have problems or care.  Gotta wonder though why though ,with half the kids going to bed hungry in this world...we put ethanol in our fuel.  (whoops ,red neck again)

Cheers

[Young Ed]

We've had e15 around here for years. It's clearly marked at the pump. I don't believe stations can legally just swap 10% out for 15%

[Roger Blagborne]

   Refineries around here (most of our fuel comes from Cherry Point Wash) produce two grades of gasolene...regular and premium...higher grades for example Chevron Super Supreme, are produced separately in Vancouver.  Mid grade is merely a blend of two products in the pump its self, while Chevron Super Supreme has its own stand alone pump.  I have for years driven high compression engines and I would often get fuel that was below grade from the multi pump, even though I selected premium, so I switched to Super Supreme.

   Problem is...retailers are running out of tankage on site and the ethanol is attacking the existing fiberglass tanks, so ethanol is beginning to be added at the pump, not at the rack. (refineries produce gas not ethanol which is purchased elsewhere) into the delivery trucks.

   I was using automotive gasolene in my Aircraft (with a STC) but no longer, because I do not trust the delivery system to give me no ethanol marine fuel (back to burning 100LL)

   Now...with the service station mixing fuels and ethanol on site I have no Idea what I am getting so I am back to testing the fuel for ethanol content.   Buyer beware.

Cheers

   

[Tom Skinner]

 

[Tom Skinner]

Gents,

I still think if Americans Love America and pull together as a team (Drive 58-62mph. whichever keeps your RPM's below 2,000) We would really prosper through Team Work. Save 17% of our gas Every Day.

Those that want to speed would learn how to slow down or look ridiculous or cause wrecks.

Tom

[Roger Blagborne]

    I sure would not want to recommend that.......maybe ok for a small amount ......just too many things to go wrong in larger volumes .....in my opinion too many people are way too casual about just how dangerous gasolene is if mis handled.

Cheers

[Tom Skinner]

Roger,

I agree gas is easy to spill etc.

Tom

[Booger]

I once saw a bumper sticker that said "Im sorry if the speed limit offends you....All you geezers remember  the 55 mph speed limit during the 70s gas crisis. Gas lines! 35c regular! Outrageous

[Dan Hiebert]

Another concern with E85 is that cars have to be engineered to use it.  Manufacturers will not honor warranties on cars designed / engineered for 10% ethanol if the owner runs even one tank of E85 (15% ethanol) in it.  Read the owners manual and warranty information in any new car, it will read that the car is either E85 safe, or it will read a bunch of gibberish about reduced performance, mileage, emissions, lifespan, etc.  Which means don't use it.  They don't specifically say it voids the warranty, but when the owner's manual says something is bad for the car, and the owner does it anyway, guess what - that voids the warranty.  We've a 2019 Dodge Ram PU (still can't bring myself to call it just Ram), its manual specifically says don't use E85.  It's out of factory warranty, but we have an extended warranty on it, which does specify they won't cover engine or fuel system issues if we use E85 fuel.   

[Sniper]

 

E85 IS 15% gasoline, 85% alcohol.

 

E15 is 85% gasoline, 15% alcohol.  Big difference.

 

If you want to fart about at 55mph, do it in the right lane.  I put about 7000 miles a month on the work truck doing my job, you try to make me do 55 and we are gonna throw hands.

 

 

[kencombs]

22 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

E85 IS 15% gasoline, 85% alcohol.

 

E15 is 85% gasoline, 15% alcohol.  Big difference.

 

If you want to fart about at 55mph, do it in the right lane.  I put about 7000 miles a month on the work truck doing my job, you try to make me do 55 and we are gonna throw hands.

 

 

My Toyota Tundra is a 'flexfuel' vehicle, meaning you can use E85, 85% Ethanol, but you get reduced power and mileage.  The manual also requires halving the oil change interval. And it's already reduced to 5k compared to the normal Toyota 10k on most cars.   And, it holds 8qts of Mobil One, not an inexpensive oil change.

 

I tried one tank many miles ago, and will not do that again.

 

However some folks are modding old carbs to use alcohol and getting impressive HP with higher compression, spark advance, etc.

 

I wouldn't expect much impact when going from 10 to 15.

[Sam Buchanan]

13 hours ago, Tom Skinner said:

Gents,

I still think if Americans Love America and pull together as a team (Drive 58-62mph. whichever keeps your RPM's below 2,000) We would really prosper through Team Work. Save 17% of our gas Every Day.

Those that want to speed would learn how to slow down or look ridiculous or cause wrecks.

Tom

 

My F150 is running 1800 rpm at 75 mph (2.7L V6, gas).

 

I don't put my P15 on interstates because I don't drive it faster than 60 mph and don't want to get killed because I'm the slowest vehicle out there......................

Edited May 5 by Sam Buchanan

[Sniper]

12 minutes ago, kencombs said:

However some folks are modding old carbs to use alcohol and getting impressive HP with higher compression, spark advance, etc.

 

Yep, E85 in particular.  If I went that route on my Jag and got a tune for it I could be pushing 560 HP.  Several additional problems beyond what you mention though, primarily no E85 any where close to me, so pass. 

 

How it works is fairly interesting.  Alcohol evaporates easier than gasoline and the evaporation takes heat to transition from a liquid to a gas, it's called latent hear of evaporation.  That heat comes out of the surrounding air cooling it.  If you have an alcohol carb putting the fuel into the air stream you have the entire intake tract available to take advantage of that effect.  If you have port injection you have less time, if you have direct injection you have still less time.  The Jag is direct injected.

 

Having more octane you can add more timing, there is a limit though.  Based both on knock and the fact that at some point you set off the fuel air charge too soon and pressure peaks before TDC causing push back on the piston.  You can add more boost, hold higher boost levels longer as well.  A good tuner has that all sorted before you buy the tune. Your mileage will drop though.  Nature of ethanol energy content.

 

Now me?  If I was to add addition alcohol to my engine it would be in a water injection setup past the inter coolers (water to air, between the supercharger outlet and the heads).  But then you are messing with methanol, not ethanol, which is more corrosive and not as easily found in the concentrations you want.  You can make it at home, washer fluid has methanol, but the ones that don't go below 32degrees F need more methanol, a couple of bottles of HEET added works.  Then there is the issue of running out.  At least with E85, well if you run out the engine stops running, no potential for engine damage.  Water injection, unless it is well integrated into the engine controller you have the potential to run out and hurt the engine.  If I run water injection it will not be to make more power but rather as a safety device.  My tune is for 93 octane, I can get that.  Added water injection would be used at WOT to lessen any chance of knock and keep the engine from running too hot.  It will not be used in a manner that could compromise my engine due to fuel availability or running it so close to the edge that it's loss would cause engine damage.

 

It's all a balancing act.