New radial tires problem...

[Jim Saraceno]

I have yet had a chance to get my car back into the shop. I’ve been busy and the owner of the garage has been out of town. However, my wife and I took “Bluebelle” out for a ride/hike/picnic/ride. I avoided the highways as I usually do. It was about 60 miles round trip. The handling with the radials is so much better than the bias plies. I never imagined it would be so much better. The radials seem to just want to go forward while the bias plies spent most of their time fighting me. Even my wife, as a passenger, remarked how much better the ride is.  

As far as buying tires from Coker instead of Michelin, it had no connection to wanting a modern tire that looked like the original; it was that I needed 6 x 16s which nobody makes anymore. I talked to two tire companies, one told me he couldn’t help me, and the other said he thought he could match my tires, but he was hesitant at best, so I opted for the tires from what I thought was a reputable company.  

Like I said, on today’s ride, I was on secondary and back roads. Many were bumpy and windy. She handled great on all road conditions. I did make it up to 55 without a problem, but the problem never showed until about 57-60. I never went above 60 in the past anyway because the car lets me know she’s not happy going that fast. I actually got her up to 70 twice, and they were two of the scariest moments of my life. 

So, if it happens that I have bad tires that can’t be fixed, I am still very happy with them. I can still get on the highway at 55 mph, and it will handle much better than 60 mph with bias tires.  

That said, whenever I manage to get them back in the shop (which may be a couple of months due to travel plans) I will let you know what the final results are. Again, thank you all for your advice. 

 

[meadowbrook]

Speaking of radials vs bias. The pressure recommended on bias was 24 psi. How about radials? 

[Roger Blagborne]

   I have been fiddling with this on my Binder...Problem is the narrowest radials fitted I could find, are on 6" wide rims so they bulge out  some, but not enough to interfere with the tie rod ends....original tire pressure recommended was 30 psi (pickup) and way too much for the rears (enough to raise the outside edge off the ground...so I started lowering the pressure until the tires got a little warm after a run.. then raised it 2 psi....ended up with 24 on the front 18 on the rears (no load in the box and the front end is heavy...the Silver Diamond 220 engine is a ruddy great lump of iron).  Got about 3000 miles on the tires which do not show any wear.   The trouble is with original pressure recommendations for the cars (not pickups) you are trying to follow is for "baloon" tires and it seems to me the slightly too wide radials on narrow rims should be about the same pressure wise.

Cheers

[Sniper]

There are three ways to determine proper tire pressure Roger listed one. 

 

Another is to do a burn out and look at the rubber on the road.  You want an even patch side to side.  thicker in the middle, too much pressure, thinner in the middle, not enough pressure.

 

Finally, same as the burn out but use water and drive thru it (no burn out) then look at the water on the road. You an use chalk instead as well.

 

Radials only, front and rear can be different too.

 

 

[meadowbrook]

Burnout in a 230 powered Dodge?😂

 

Great ideas though, thanks!

[Jim Saraceno]

Back to the dots... Looking at the dots, two tires have the red and yellow dots almost opposite of each other. One the dots are at about 90 degrees. One, the two dots are next to each other. The first three have the yellow dots in line with the valve stem, the forth has the dots opposite the valve stem. Does this sound correct?

 

BTW... I took her out again today to do some more testing. As before, she run smoother than ever up to 50 mph. Somewhere between 52 and 57 she starts to shake. The first time I wasn't comfortable going any faster but today I pushed through to 65. Get her above 60 and she smooths out again. That sounds like classic tire balance problem to me. Again, when I get her back in the shop and take the owner for a test ride, I'll let you know what he says and thanks again for all your advice.

[Roger Blagborne]

   Sniper...burn out...The only burn out I can get in my Binder is the clutch....the water idea sounds like something I will Try.

Cheers

[meadowbrook]

Wheel balance would seem to be a simple thing. Spin , measure imbalance and add weight on the opposite side.

 

But apparently not. 
I ran into lots of problems with my Spitfire’s 13 inch wheels with modern radials.

[matt167]

4 hours ago, Jim Saraceno said:

Back to the dots... Looking at the dots, two tires have the red and yellow dots almost opposite of each other. One the dots are at about 90 degrees. One, the two dots are next to each other. The first three have the yellow dots in line with the valve stem, the forth has the dots opposite the valve stem. Does this sound correct?

 

BTW... I took her out again today to do some more testing. As before, she run smoother than ever up to 50 mph. Somewhere between 52 and 57 she starts to shake. The first time I wasn't comfortable going any faster but today I pushed through to 65. Get her above 60 and she smooths out again. That sounds like classic tire balance problem to me. Again, when I get her back in the shop and take the owner for a test ride, I'll let you know what he says and thanks again for all your advice.

3 of your tires are technically correct but one of them is not.  However. Have them road force balanced or match balanced. They probably won’t line up after that but it will probably ride better, or the shop will know if your tires are not able to be balanced at least 

[matt167]

42 minutes ago, meadowbrook said:

Wheel balance would seem to be a simple thing. Spin , measure imbalance and add weight on the opposite side.

 

But apparently not. 
I ran into lots of problems with my Spitfire’s 13 inch wheels with modern radials.

If you mean Triumph spitfire. BMC cars have notoriously bent rims and need pin plate balancing to get them decent 

Edited April 12 by matt167

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Roger Blagborne said:

Sniper...burn out...The only burn out I can get in my Binder is the clutch

 

Yeah  thought of that lol.  But I do have cars that came with bias plies and can do a burnout.

 

However, they no longer have bias plies or even close to stock sized tires.

 

 

[meadowbrook]

45 minutes ago, matt167 said:

If you mean Triumph spitfire. BMC cars have notoriously bent rims and need pin plate balancing to get them decent 

What is a pin plate?

[Roger Blagborne]

   I have actually tried to make BMC wheels round again but failed...just not enough material...they seem to go egg shape and bent in all sorts of ways at the same time that cannot be trued by pressing them in a jig...and any extra force bends the centers before the rims...just gave up and bought new ones.  Could be they are chemically heat treated steel and once taking a set cannot be fixed.

Cheers

 

[matt167]

1 hour ago, meadowbrook said:

What is a pin plate?

It’s a plate that has pins through the lug holes that goes on the balancer. Any time a wheel is what is considered lug centric ( Toyota is most common ) should be pin plate balanced though most cases you can get away with it… BMC wheels it’s a crap shoot since it’s because they are all bent

[meadowbrook]

Yeah… Triumphs were never known for their quality. Interestingly, the Lucas electrics from my 78 car is no more sophisticated than the 49 Dodge. Butt connectors, and only 3 fuses. But I digress.

[Roger Blagborne]

    Having grown up with British cars (what part of British Columbia dont you understand) and North American cars together I can attest both vehicles were very good but British industry was dying at its own hand...in the 50s and 60s....much as North American industry was in the 80s and 90s and the pressure to produce vehicles with less and or poorer materials resulted in problems and bad reputations.  

    The vintage (pre mid 50s) Mopar products were generally of very good quality but this started to die in the late 50s due to the same reasons (bad management)   

     It is important to realize that pre 60s road conditions were not as good as now with most vehicles contending with gravel roads out side of the cities...in addition there were few pickups outside of farm use so the cars were often overloaded (in my case Mom, Dad, 2 boys,dog fishing gear camping gear etc etc plus a boat on the roof.. try putting all that in a modern suv) resulting in often bent rims among other things.

   At this time most cars used similar tire sizes and rims and replacements were easy and cheap to get.not so now.

    My buddy is currently working on a Studebaker PU which has weird offsets in the wheel centers so the only option is to bend them back into alignment.  The first step is to get a hub that fits the center and use a dial indicator which will soon show you where the problems are, and thru much jacking and walloping in the hydraulic press you can soon get them back (never use heat, you will permanently wreck the rim) into shape.  Only then can they  be balanced.

Cheers

[meadowbrook]

Yeah, my Spits wheels run true and were finally balanced . 
Though a Spitfire was likely not used to carry loads. 
Isvit true that smaller wheels are harder to balance? Mine are 13”.

[matt167]

Smaller makes more Revolutions per mile. So if it’s imbalanced you’ll feel it quicker 

[Roger Blagborne]

   Smaller wheels are more tricky to balance because a larger selection of weights in smaller increments are required and some tire shops dont have them...resorting to clipping larger weights down.  (the closer to center the more fussy you have to be to get it right...centrifugal force is less )

Cheers

[Tom Skinner]

Roger is Right. Smaller Tires (Narrow or Bias) need someone that knows what they are doing. Same goes with Our Bias Tires. Radials is all they know. They are young and are ignorant to the older Bias Tires.

The Cadillac Dealership balanced my Coker Wide White Bias Tires perfectly for my 1948 Chrysler and it rides like a Cadillac.

Look we need to find a Shop that knows what they are doing, not a bunch of pretenders pretending they know what they are doing. Just MHO (my humble opinion). In todays world the shops just hire a bunch of know nothings by a bunch of know nothings. Get a Good Shop that knows what they are doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom

[meadowbrook]

Any in the Ann Arbor area?

[Jim Saraceno]

I finally managed to get my car back in the shop. They added a couple of weights on the rims of the rear tires, problem solved. It rides smooth up past 65 and I never drive it any faster than that. I'm a very happy camper!