New radial tires problem...

[Eneto-55]

There's a retread operation in our county seat, about 10 miles from here. One of the workers there also works some Saturdays at the local hardware store, and we often visit a bit if I'm in there. I have never asked him about retreading passenger tires - they probably don't, for the reasons Los_Control mentioned. I used to run retreads sometimes, years ago, and one of the tires on my 46 is a retread. (The car is not road-worthy, and I wouldn't consider driving it any where on that tire. If I would check the tire pressure, it wouldn't register. But the rubber is so old and stiff that it doesn't look flat at all. It is also a snow tire, with really aggressive tread.  I aired it up several years ago to make the car easier to move around by hand by myself, and it slowly leaks back out.)

 

EDIT:

Oh, I just remembered now something else I was going to mention here. (I was called to dinner after I started it.) Anyway, about out of round wheels. The pastor at our congregation from the time I was 13 or 14 until I was away to Bible college made trips down into Old Mexico nearly every year, and one time he hit a hole in the road and bent one of the rims really badly, like curled over at one spot. He had a 68 Chevrolet, and couldn't find a replacement wheel anywhere in that area of Mexico, so a blacksmith fixed it for him.  When they got back to Oklahoma, he took the car in to a shop, and they put the wheel on a balancing machine. As the story goes, it was "perfectly round". (When that car got up to 250,000 miles, the congregation bought them a new car. He kept the old one for awhile after that, but later gave it to a family whose car had completely given out. He told me that he kinda' wished he could keep it, because he wanted to see how far it would get.)

Edited April 8 by Eneto-55

[desoto1939]

3 hours ago, 46BulldogDodge said:

Regarding Glass Beads or Ceramic Beads---Do a search on the Dodge Power Wagon Forum in "Phil's Archives.  Several owners of vintage power wagons have used them in bias ply tires which tend to get a flat spot if left sitting for extended time.  Dick Hultman

 

I have a 39 Desoto that has the bia ply tires installed. I do not have any flat spots on my tires after sitting for a while. I was taught that by placing a section used rug under each tire it will stop the tire from getting a flat spot.  I was also at a high quality car museum and every car had a piece of rug under all the tires. Asked the curator why and he told me flat out to stop the flat spots from sitting. i have had my 39 Desoto sitting on an old living room rug for over 40 years and no flat spots.

 

Consider doing this on your older car and it also stop the coldness from being transfered from the cement floor and also helps with stopping moisture from getting to the undercarraige.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[meadowbrook]

I received a set of radials with white walls from Coker and they were horrible even before mounting. Literally misshapen. I returned them and they refunded me. I the bought another brand from Diamond Back from Summit. 
These were great. It’s for my 49 Wayfarer. No balance issues.

[Los_Control]

Did anyone mention to buy a 5th tire for a spare? ... One bad tire out of 4 ... may be cheaper to spend $300 and buy another and just use the bad tire for a spare wheel.

 

Would suck if the 5th tire was bad also .... feeling lucky?

[Veemoney]

Not sure if the dot system on tires is common knowledge so I'll post.

 

• Yellow Dot (Lightest Point): The most common marking for everyday drivers. This dot is aligned with the heavy valve stem to create a naturally balanced wheel assembly, reducing the need for heavy wheel weights.
• Red Dot (High Point / Uniformity Mark): Indicates the point of maximum radial force variation. It should align with a corresponding mark or dimple on the factory rim to minimize vibrations.
• Both Dots Present: If a tire has both, the red dot generally takes precedence (aligning to the wheel's low spot) if the wheel has a matching mark; otherwise, use the yellow dot at the valve stem.

Purpose: These markings help installers avoid issues like vibration, poor handling, and premature tire wear by addressing in-process manufacturing irregularities. 
 

 

[Jim Saraceno]

Very interesting. I've never heard of that before, I'll have to check that out. Since my wheels are 90 years old, they don't have dots on them so I should look to see if the yellow dot lines up with the valve stem?

[Veemoney]

58 minutes ago, Jim Saraceno said:

Since my wheels are 90 years old, they don't have dots on them so I should look to see if the yellow dot lines up with the valve stem?

Correct, If you see a red dot be aware that the tire has a high spot identified by the manufacturer. Since rims in the 50s were not marked for low spot radially, your tire installer could check the rim of a problem wheel for concentricity and add a mark to align to if the tire has a red dot otherwise you would use the yellow dot.

[matt167]

The dots used to mean something but they really don’t. I know that, because some tires have them right next to each other which if the dots are doing what they are supposed to, that is impossible.

 

if it calls for a large amount of weight and everything is running true, than break down the tire and spin it 180*. 

[Veemoney]

37 minutes ago, matt167 said:

The dots used to mean something but they really don’t. I know that, because some tires have them right next to each other which if the dots are doing what they are supposed to, that is impossible.

 

 

As I understand it 1 identifies lightest weight the other concentricity or a high spot. it is possible to have both located close to each other. The process of making tires does not guarantee perfection in either as thickness of material in 360 degrees can change I guess. Not sure what the threshold is for marking those points. 

Edited April 9 by Veemoney
Better wording and explanation

[Plymouthy Adams]

 

33 minutes ago, matt167 said:

The dots used to mean something but they really don’t. I know that, because some tires have them right next to each other which if the dots are doing what they are supposed to, that is impossible.

 

if it calls for a large amount of weight and everything is running true, than break down the tire and spin it 180*. 

as stated...they give you the choice....modern tire mounted correctly...very little needed for balance...the tires most buying for these old cars...the whole dang tire will be one red dot.

[matt167]

6 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

 

as stated...they give you the choice....modern tire mounted correctly...very little needed for balance...the tires most buying for these old cars...the whole dang tire will be one red dot.

I put Armstrong tires on my ‘51. They actually have dots but are on the black wall side so they are not lined up. I road force balanced them for giggles and because I can and they all actually passed without needing rotated 

[matt167]

6 hours ago, Veemoney said:

As I understand it 1 identifies lightest weight the other concentricity or a high spot. it is possible to have both located close to each other. The process of making tires does not guarantee perfection in either as thickness of material in 360 degrees can change I guess. Not sure what the threshold is for marking those points. 

Your correct. Yellow is lightest, and red is highest point/ stiffest which also points to being the heaviest spot. If a rim has a blue dot on it, that signifies the lightest point on that rim. So lightest to heaviest. Thats how it’s supposed to be.  It all makes sense that way, except you cannot have lightest and heaviest point in the same spot.   It’s a starting point sure, but the tried and true method is rotating 180* if it takes too much weight. This is exactly what a road force balancer tells you to do. It just precisely pinpoints where to rotate the tire to vs a general 180*

[Roger Blagborne]

   I run my 53 binder (650-16 bias) all the time but finally converted to tubeless radials....I swear if you drew a chalk line on the road the truck would follow it with bias tires.....but it was a real bear to parallel park with radials.. (I was really afraid I would break the steering box)....so I added power assist steering (from a ford highboy) with the cylinder tied into the tie rod ....not only does it handle well but the ride is softer too...point is........ with old vehicles common (walmart) radials work well on the old rims, the suspension  dosent seem to care... the handling is much better ...just a little hard to turn the wheels when not moving but you soon get automatic sneaky to handle that.(rolling while turning) 

    I thought I would have problems with leaks (riveted rims) but a coat of paint on the inside fixed that  and the aftermarket tubeless valve spindles (oblong holes) work well....So  unless you are going for period originality...common radials work really well on old cars.

Cheers

 

[meadowbrook]

What’s a binder? 
My brother has an old International Scout and those are referred to as binders by their fans.

[Roger Blagborne]

   Old  International trucks are affectionately referred to as corn binders..or binders for short   

Cheers

[Sbonesteel]

1 hour ago, Roger Blagborne said:

   I run my 53 binder (650-16 bias) all the time but finally converted to tubeless radials....I swear if you drew a chalk line on the road the truck would follow it with bias tires.....but it was a real bear to parallel park with radials.. (I was really afraid I would break the steering box)....so I added power assist steering (from a ford highboy) with the cylinder tied into the tie rod ....not only does it handle well but the ride is softer too...point is........ with old vehicles common (walmart) radials work well on the old rims, the suspension  dosent seem to care... the handling is much better ...just a little hard to turn the wheels when not moving but you soon get automatic sneaky to handle that.(rolling while turning) 

    I thought I would have problems with leaks (riveted rims) but a coat of paint on the inside fixed that  and the aftermarket tubeless valve spindles (oblong holes) work well....So  unless you are going for period originality...common radials work really well on old cars.

Cheers

 

Agree totally with the last paragraph.  Went through the same thing with my stock 47 P15 including not only a change to radials but also a change back to 16" stock rims on the rear for RPM assistance on my 4.11 rear.  Oval tubeless stems work fine, I used spray on bedliner on the center strip of the rim (inside) to seal the rivets, not a single leak.  Night and day improvement in ride and handling, no need for a power assist on the stock steering with that big stock steering wheel.  Change in the overall 'look' of the car with radials v. bias ply is negligible, particularly in light of the vast improvement in driveability.

[Plymouthy Adams]

5 hours ago, matt167 said:

I put Armstrong tires on my ‘51. They actually have dots but are on the black wall side so they are not lined up. I road force balanced them for giggles and because I can and they all actually passed without needing rotated 

I am not sure I could buy my own road force balance machine such as you did....given you stated you did this yourself...congrats on owning such a fine piece of equipment...

[Merle Coggins]

9 hours ago, Roger Blagborne said:

   Old  International trucks are affectionately referred to as corn binders..or binders for short   

Cheers

 

I've also heard them called "13 letter $#it spreaders"

[Dan Hiebert]

Brand new tires, even common models from very reputable manufacturers can be bad, and they can make it to the market.  We bought a new 2001 Dodge Ram PU on which all four tires (Goodyear) were bad.  Could not be balanced no matter what they tried.  After much back and forth about whose fault it was (Dodge vs. Goodyear, neither local shop would fix it), the dealer where we bought it (we didn't buy it local) ended up putting new tires on it.  I know all four seems extreme, but I suspect the dealer to where it was originally shipped put all of their bad tires from other trucks on it.  It was originally shipped to Louisiana but had hail damage repaired and couldn't be sold as new, so the dealer in New Mexico where we bought it acquired that shipment.

[matt167]

11 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I am not sure I could buy my own road force balance machine such as you did....given you stated you did this yourself...congrats on owning such a fine piece of equipment...

lol I don’t own it. I work at a dealerships so I have access to one. I got tire bars at my house and even a bubble balancer which I do use occasionally . I thought about getting one of the Chinese tire machines for a short time, but I can use the shop stuff whenever I need.

[Plymouthy Adams]

that makes life easier......I used to work at a couple dealerships when young....as for the tire changer, I have my old trusty Coats I guess you could say it is air powered, if you don't breathe air, you not going to get the tire work done.   Balancers, many types on hand here collected over the ages.  

[Roger Blagborne]

   You may call them crap spreaders but I ran IHC trucks for years with no problems parts are still easy to get.....they made me a lot of money and never let me down...only problems I had was the sheet metal was bio degradable.(not even painted on the inside)... no problem if you sent the  new truck to ziebart..right off the lot.

   I started out with Dodge trucks (really liked them) but switched to IHC when MoPar stopped making anything over 1 ton.   Only went to Ford Pu,s when they came out with IHC diesel engines..best of both worlds.   Sorry about the off topic.

Cheers

[Merle Coggins]

9 minutes ago, Roger Blagborne said:

   You may call them crap spreaders but I ran IHC trucks for years with no problems parts are still easy to get.....they made me a lot of money and never let me down...only problems I had was the sheet metal was bio degradable.(not even painted on the inside)... no problem if you sent the  new truck to ziebart..right off the lot.

   I started out with Dodge trucks (really liked them) but switched to IHC when MoPar stopped making anything over 1 ton.   Only went to Ford Pu,s when they came out with IHC diesel engines..best of both worlds.   Sorry about the off topic.

Cheers

 

I don't call them that. I said, I've heard them called that. I've always liked the IH trucks. My uncle had one when I was a youth. 

[Roger Blagborne]

    No problem I ... I know this is off topic again but IHC was a major part of rural life with dealers everywhere, not only selling farm machinery and trucks but a lot of common farm needs as well..my dad bought an IHC Fridge in 1952...still keeps the beer cold in the shop...seems funny now to see the beer fridge with a big IHC logo on it sitting next to my Binder with the same big logo on the grille built one year apart.

Cheers

[soth122003]

On 4/7/2026 at 10:11 PM, Jim Saraceno said:

Has anyone had success or problems with glass bead balancing?

Came across this article years ago on a site called tools on the cheap. I read the article and since I used to work in a tire shop at one point and knew about the bead balance thought i would give it a try. The only difference I did was use about 4-5 oz of weight instead of the 3.5. I will say my P-15 rides smooth as silk and have no balance problems at all.

 

Hope this helps.

Joe Lee

 

 

Balance procedure.txt