Questions on 54 C-1 truck project

[888]

I joined back in 2019 when I was looking at a 53 B-1 truck project and I passed on that one.  I've cleared the barn and will have some money towards the middle of December and started looking for another project truck.  Here in SW Ohio there aren't many left but I found one that seems to have some possibilities.  It's a 54 C-1 with the high side bed, 6 cylinder, 3 on the tree, and single rear window that is supposedly original.  Still has the Job Rated trim, grille is all there and not bent, it is said to be "good running", has all of the glass intact, and doesn't appear to be rusty.  Interior looks like it might have been white but the body was painted light blue at some point.  Looks like Dodge had Panama Sand and Sonora Blue in 54 so who knows. Original doesn't extend to the wheels, there are some kind of 5 spoke mag style wheels on there now. 

EDIT - is the bolt pattern on these fairly "modern"?  As in 15" steel wheels and Mopar dog dish hubcaps being possible?  I'd love to have a set of original hub caps but I imagine those are scarce. 

Pictures make it appear like it's been stored inside a concrete floored warehouse or large garage for some years.  Of course, you never know what something is till you go see it in person, which I may do in the next week or so if it's still for sale.  

 

Looking up info on the C-1, it appears that they aren't as popular with collectors as the B and D?   The guy wants a lot for it (to me anyway) and the price is said to be firm, but it's been for sale for quite a while.   My intent is not to restore it, but make an reliable good weather daily out of it, but even that will probably take some investment. 

 

I sorted through a few pages of posts and the post below provides a lot of information about things I would have questions on, but I have a few more:

 

Looks like it is straight axle/drum brakes up front.  I usually work on older aircooled VW's that have kingpin/drums up front and they can be a handful unless you get rid of bias ply tires and stopping takes some advance planning.  How is the steering and braking on these?  About what you would expect from a 1954 but manageable?  I found a link to a kit to discs but it only is guaranteed to work through 1952.  Were there some changes after 1952?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28 by 888

[JBNeal]

11 hours ago, 888 said:

...is the bolt pattern on these fairly "modern"?  As in 15" steel wheels and Mopar dog dish hubcaps being possible?  ...

 

Looking up info on the C-1, it appears that they aren't as popular with collectors as the B and D?   ... 

 

How is the steering and braking on these?  About what you would expect from a 1954 but manageable?  I found a link to a kit to discs but it only is guaranteed to work through 1952.  Were there some changes after 1952?

I recall the C-1-B rims should have the 5 x 4.5 bolt pattern...fwiw, that side mounted spare rim is not original either, kinda looks like the spare rim I had on the 92 Dakota. 

 

The big problem with the C-series was its limited run:  C-1 debuted for 1954, with a brief run into 1955; then C-3 debuted in mid-'55 with many running changes, the most notable being the cab + doors going with a more forward look, and ran into 1956.  By 1957, the sheet metal forward of the cab completely changed.  So the grille + front fenders for the C-1 and C-3  are interchangeable, but the cabs and doors are not.  The C-3 cab was used in small trucks until the end of 1960, and in large trucks until the end of 1975.  So in some regards, the C-1 was a one-year only production run...that can make parts scarce and repairs expensive.

 

As for steering and braking, the B-series and C-series were very similar.  I do not have a factory parts manual to verify all part numbers, but there were quite a few items from the B-4 that carried over to the C-1, as well as C-1 items carrying over to the C-3 and beyond in compatibility, most notably powertrain and suspension parts.  The big change for C-1 steering was moving the gearbox outside the frame rails, as the frame was made more narrow at the front axle to decrease turning radius.  From a cursory review, this changed the B-4 steering gearbox casting, but the internals were unchanged or slightly modified.

[888]

Thanks very much for the detailed response.  I read that the C wasn't around long compared to the B but didn't know all of the changes made. 

 

So it sounds like the front sheet metal on this one needs to be perfect and I can't wreck it because I'm not going to find replacements easily.  Sounds like I'll need disc brakes

 

Are you thinking that the spare wheel currently mounted is incorrect or the presence of a spare wheel at all on this truck in that location is incorrect? 

 

I've read a few places that the early 1954 model run had a different (100 hp) 6 cylinder engine than the remainder (110 hp) as well?   Are parts harder to come by for the earlier engine?   I've seen someone on here has a cross reference between VIN and engine number so if I can get the VIN, the engine can be determined?  The engine is s a flat head from the photos. 

 

I've had a number of 89 to 93 Cummins trucks (currently have a 92 standard cab manual transmission dually) and have always wanted to find an earlier Dodge shortbed manual transmission truck.  They are really hard to find in my area of Ohio in decent condition and my track record with sight unseen/shipped vehicles has been really bad so when something shows up around here, I have to check it out. 

 

He wants $7,500 for it which seems like a lot but it might run like a top and be completely rust free which makes it worth considering.  It doesn't appear to be beat up sheet metal wise.   I didn't add a lot more photos because my internet is spotty but there are two different photos of the engine posted in the ad....one does not show a radiator cap and the heater core hoses to the firewall are cut off.  Looks like there are heater hoses in another photo, so that needs to be sorted out. 

 

Any idea about the color?  Many years ago, I was into mid 60's Chevy trucks and the interior sheet metal on all of them was painted a cinnamon brown regardless of the exterior color.  Not sure if Dodge painted all interiors white or this one was white (Panama Sand?) before blue (Sonora Blue?). 

 

Thanks again.  I don't know a lot about these so I appreciate your responses.

 

Edited November 29 by 888

[JBNeal]

3 hours ago, 888 said:

...

Are you thinking that the spare wheel currently mounted is incorrect or the presence of a spare wheel at all on this truck in that location is incorrect? 

 

I've read a few places that the early 1954 model run had a different (100 hp) 6 cylinder engine than the remainder (110 hp) as well?   Are parts harder to come by for the earlier engine?   I've seen someone on here has a cross reference between VIN and engine number so if I can get the VIN, the engine can be determined?  The engine is s a flat head from the photos...

 

Any idea about the color?...

I found the FB listing in question and this picture has some details worth expanding upon.  Original color probably is that white hue on the firewall...if the back of the glovebox door is the same color, then more than likely that was the original paint.

 

The heater core appears to be aftermarket and the hacked appearance of installation and disuse is not a good thing...it's not a deal breaker as it's peripheral to the engine and can be addressed.  That carburetor looks cleaner than anything in the engine compartment, so maybe that's recent.  The head bolts have been changed to studs with chrome cap acorn nuts, maybe the engine has been gone through,  maybe not.  The missing rad.cap bothers me, that's easy enough to replace but that chore has been neglected.  That plastic fuel filter dangling in proximity to the exhaust manifold really bothers me, kinda tells me the engine has been re-fired after years of being dormant and the owner has lost interest and needs to pay bills before January...who knows what jive he's pushing to unload this beast.

 

The engine number is stamped on the block, and casting dates can be found on the block and head, directly above and below the distributor.  A build card would need to be procured to determine if the engine was original to the truck...a shortcut might be that if the truck title number and flathead engine number are the same, then maybe that flathead is original.  Modern VINs didn't appear until nearly two decades after this truck was manufactured, so the engine number was used on many titling documents...which can be a problem as back in the day there was a legitimate business in engine rebuilding and replacement to maintain vehicles longer rather than buying new vehicles. 

 

These flathead engines from 1951 onwards were basically the same, with changes in compression achieved by head machining.  Parts availability should not be an issue though more expensive than blue oval or gm of that era as Dodge accounted for  something like 10% of the truck market back then, so Dodges are rare compared to them.

 

The side-mounted spare was not a factory option until 1957 or so, definitely not on a C-1, but there were aftermarket kits available as well as many homemade versions found in the wild.  That spare was originally underslung of the bed, out of the way.

 

This truck looks to be a good candidate for restoration, but missing pieces, quick (sloppy) mods and its deteriorated condition are not causing me to drool over it.  If there's no title available right now, I would be even less interested.   If'n ya showed up with a trailer and 3k in unmarked bills in a paper bag, maybe that could close a deal, but more than 5k price tag is a deal that I'd pass on...these guys want top dollar from somebody who is running on emotion and don't like to haggle with someone armed with knowledge.  I like to save a relic from the past from an unfortunate fate, but I don't wanna end up in the poor house reviving a basketcase 

[888]

Thanks again for the detailed response. 

 

I asked the guy to send the VIN so I could at least do some basic checking and the response was "No, sorry we don't send pictures off the VIN".

 

Between your comments and that response, I'll give it a pass and keep looking. 

 

 

Edited November 29 by 888

[Los_Control]

Yeah not really a VIN on these old trucks.

They did use the engine number for a VIN, then the frame is stamped up front somewhere with the same number.

A lost title can be a real pita in some states .... no idea about yours.

 

It is so common to swap the original engine out with a different one ... now the engine and frame numbers do not match .... red flag for a DMV inspection.

Some states it is not a big deal and use common sense.

 

I also would not send a VIN online to someone I never met or did business with  .... the guy is smart here.

I also agree $3K in its current unknown condition ... if it runs good, brakes work, minimal rust .... up to $5k

 

$7500 I would want all the fluids changed, new tires, full tank of gas, fresh polish and wax and driven to my door step for delivery.

Just because it is rare does not make it valuable .... in this case, just makes it harder to find replacement parts.

[888]

Thanks for the responses.  You guys have provided exactly what I needed to know.

 

To be clear, I don't know if there are title issues or not.  If I somehow suggested that there are title issues, that's on me. 

 

This is an older vehicle than I usually deal with and in the VW world I usually live in, providing the VIN is the only way to really know what year the car is and what engine serial number was in there from the factory.  Same goes with the newer ones; VIN tells whether it was German or Mexico/Brazil build so that's what is exchanged first and I didn't think asking for it was that big of a deal.

 

It looks like the seller seems to have somehow bought or inherited a number of older vehicles that were in storage and has them for sale on FB.  As JBNeal said (and I agree) I think they've gone through and did the minimum required to get them started so they could sell them as running vehicles.  I'm still interested because it appears to be pretty straight and not rusty but not at anything close to the current $7,500 firm pricing.  I'll just wait it out and see what happens. 

 

Thanks again.