Starter Broke!

[D Paul F]

Anyone have an idea why this starter nose piece broke off?  This is off a 1957 Plymouth 230ci 12 volt system.  It is sitting on a engine run stand so I can test it before going in my 1950 Plymouth.  It just broke!  I also need a replacement nose piece if anyone knows where I may find one!

[Dave72dt]

The ones I've seen with broken nose cones has been caused by a backfire while cranking.  Check your armature for straightness before hunting down a nose cone.  If bent a replacement starter may be less expensive.

[kencombs]

I’ve never seen one break but I know there can be a tooth mismatch between later starters and older flywheels.  I think 56 was the only 12v year that had the correct drive pinion for older flywheels

Edited May 28 by kencombs

[Ivan_B]

Is the engine turning okay? I suspect that another issue could be a seized engine 🙄

[Jerry Roberts]

In the past I have seen the nose pieces on ebay . 

[D Paul F]

21 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

The ones I've seen with broken nose cones has been caused by a backfire while cranking.  Check your armature for straightness before hunting down a nose cone.  If bent a replacement starter may be less expensive.

So far, no backfires.  I ordered a rebuilt starter off eBlah, will see how it goes.  Thanks

[D Paul F]

19 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

Is the engine turning okay? I suspect that another issue could be a seized engine 🙄

Yes, it has been running and sounding pretty good on temporary a run stand I built.  The starter should be here today maybe.  Thanks

[D Paul F]

21 hours ago, kencombs said:

I’ve never seen one break but I know there can be a tooth mismatch between later starters and older flywheels.  I think 56 was the only 12v year that had the correct drive pinion for older flywheels

This engine came out of a 57 Plymouth that has sat since 1967, it is actually a 54 Dodge 230ci engine that looks to have been rebuilt since the head bolts are mismatched.  The flywheel and starter teeth seem to be matched, at least the 50 Plymouth starter doesn't have anywhere near the same teeth as came out of the 57 Plymouth.

Thanks!

[D Paul F]

19 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

Is the engine turning okay? I suspect that another issue could be a seized engine 🙄

I will watch, I would lake to have a spare.

Thanks!

[kencombs]

57 minutes ago, D Paul F said:

This engine came out of a 57 Plymouth that has sat since 1967, it is actually a 54 Dodge 230ci engine that looks to have been rebuilt since the head bolts are mismatched.  The flywheel and starter teeth seem to be matched, at least the 50 Plymouth starter doesn't have anywhere near the same teeth as came out of the 57 Plymouth.

Thanks!

As  long as the flywheel and start match you're OK.   I wasn't sure if you were using the 57 or 50 starter and/or flywheel.

[9 foot box]

  Dodge and Plymouth cars used a 146 tooth flywheel up to and including 1956. You could use an MCH-6001 6 volt starter till 1955. In 56 they changed to 12 volt and used a one year only MDG-6001 or MDK-6002 starter. In 57 they changed the flywheel to 172 tooth count and used an MDL-6004 starter. All the starters are 9 tooth bendix drive. Rick D.

[D Paul F]

1 hour ago, 9 foot box said:

  Dodge and Plymouth cars used a 146 tooth flywheel up to and including 1956. You could use an MCH-6001 6 volt starter till 1955. In 56 they changed to 12 volt and used a one year only MDG-6001 or MDK-6002 starter. In 57 they changed the flywheel to 172 tooth count and used an MDL-6004 starter. All the starters are 9 tooth bendix drive. Rick D.

But all 6 volt starter Bendix drives are larger teeth, right?  I didn't actually count the number of drive teeth but for sure the 6 volt is larger teeth!  Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, 9 foot box said:

  Dodge and Plymouth cars used a 146 tooth flywheel up to and including 1956. You could use an MCH-6001 6 volt starter till 1955. In 56 they changed to 12 volt and used a one year only MDG-6001 or MDK-6002 starter. In 57 they changed the flywheel to 172 tooth count and used an MDL-6004 starter. All the starters are 9 tooth bendix drive. Rick D.

 

[keithb7]

To me a bent armature shaft adds up and makes sense as a possibility.

 

Back firing?The starter drive pinion gear is attached to a one way bendix gear drive. If the engine flywheel tries to override and drive the starter gear it freewheels.  Wouldn’t it protect the starter bendix from a backfire kick-back? 

[Dave72dt]

8 hours ago, keithb7 said:

To me a bent armature shaft adds up and makes sense as a possibility.

 

Back firing?The starter drive pinion gear is attached to a one way bendix gear drive. If the engine flywheel tries to override and drive the starter gear it freewheels.  Wouldn’t it protect the starter bendix from a backfire kick-back? 

The starter drive freewheels when engine starts and overcomes the starter speed.  A backfire can make the engine want to turn backwards or similar to too advanced timing when starting.  There's no freewheeling when the engine wants to go opposite direction the starter wants it to go..