48 P15 - Grille Moulding "clips" question

[clarkede]

I'm beginning the body restoration of my 1948 Plymouth Special Deluxe.  In particular, I'm planning to repaint it myself in the next couple months if I can set aside the proper amount of time to strip everything down and prep it properly.  I am not looking to do a crap job, but I'm also not looking to be super detailed with every aspect of it.  I tend to be fairly anal about things, so I might get caught up in the details, but I'll see as I move forward.

 

I started removing all the external molding and trim on the car and decided to take fenders and doors off as well so the paint job will look much cleaner.  I have a little body work to do on the rocker panels and the bottom of the rear doors and I have been waiting for the weather to warm up a little before starting this project.  Well the weather is starting to warm up. 

 

after removing much of the external molding, I also pulled off the front grill (for the first time in the cars life) and it needs a little work to say the least.  I have attached a few pictures to show what I have done so far.  I removed all of the stainless steel trim from the radiator grill panel and then sanded down the grill panel and painted it with some POR15 anti rust paint. 

 

Does anyone know what clips are uses to attach the molding to the grill panel?  As you can see in the pictures (07-10) the threaded studs are either so rusted or have broken off in my removal process.  I want to just replace them with new ones if possible.  Also, the clips are either really rusted to the larger stainless molding or they are spot welded together - I just can't tell.  The smaller molding pieces looks like the clips slide in from either end.  I tried to get pictures to show what I'm talking about.  Any help or advice would be appreciated. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

you will either repair the broken studs on the center covers and the trim itself as they are welded on the stainless steel or get luck and find some at a yard or swap meet or post a want ad here.  Drilling these out and tapping them and installing bolts from the rear is what I did on a couple of mine that had issue.  It is not hard, just got to have the tools and a bit of time and desire to do the task.  As for the ones that do slip into the trim piece, generic cut to size clips are quick and easy here also.

Edited April 10 by Plymouthy Adams

[clarkede]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

Drilling these out and tapping them and installing bolts from the rear

That sounds like what I'll need to do. Thanks for the advice. 

 

I might even see if I can find some simple nylon fasteners (push-pin style) that will work.

[Eneto-55]

9 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

you will either repair the broken studs on the center covers and the trim itself as they are welded on the stainless steel or get luck and find some at a yard or swap meet or post a want ad here.  Drilling these out and tapping them and installing bolts from the rear is what I did on a couple of mine that had issue.  It is not hard, just got to have the tools and a bit of time and desire to do the task.  As for the ones that do slip into the trim piece, generic cut to size clips are quick and easy here also.

Reminds me of a related question I've had - Has anyone used a small spot welder to weld in replacement brackets in situations like this?  (The hand-held spot welder I used to borrow from a former employer is too large for this, but I've seen videos of how to build small spot welders, especially as related to welding the contact strips to replace batteries in battery drills, etc.)

[Young Ed]

I was able to put carriage bolts and take them to the original brackets. I think on some of them I was able to wiggle them in and on some I had to manipulate the bracket to get the bolt in. 

[Bob Ritter]

I had the same problem with my grille. What I did was cut the bolts off at the base of the clip and then wire bush the rust off. Then centerpunched the bolts and drilled a quarter inch hole and installed the new from the bottom and braised them in. Worked great...

[Bob Ritter]

That grille panel needs to be sandblasted or acid dipped to remove all the rust. And the bottom section needs a piece of metal behind that rusted out piece to reinforce it. Then clean it up with some Bondo. I use cheap Harbor Freight spot welder on projects like this. My back ground is in body work and paint so this how a body guy would do it.

[andyd]

I would not use any sort of nylon clip, the original used bolts so bolts & nuts should replace whats buggered.........You can get captive nuts in a UNC threaded size that can be welded into where a threaded boss has rusted out or even drill the threaded boss out and install a bolt in reverse ( depending on whether this method will allow enough accessibility to install a nut........I'd be getting a Parts manual that should show you exactly what was used in the front and other sheet metal originally & then you can decide how, when & what you are going to do.....

............an example is when I replaced & repaired the rockers or sills on my 1940 Oz Dodge the original running board bolts screwed into captive nuts in the bottom of the rockers..........unfortunately of the 5 or 6 that held the running boards on, most had rusted and just spun.........so I ground off the bolt heads, made up small square plates with a bolt inserted & welded onto each plate with its "hanging" thread down bolt into the repaired rocker..............voila.....an attachment point that 50 yrs later has never shown any possibility of rusting out and as I used 3/8 UNC threaded bolts they are stronger and easier to undo..............may not get any points in a concourse show but I'm a hotrodder & could care less..........lol..............regards from Oz...........andyd 

[clarkede]

Thank you all for your suggestions and advice.  For the larger front grill pieces, I've decided to cut off the rusty bolt heads (see images) and attempt to either:

1. Drill holes in the existing brackets and put bolts through from the back.  This is probably going to the the easiest method, so I'll try it first on and see how it goes.  I think the bolt sizes were 1/4 and 3/8 depending on the
2. Or if that method doesn't go easily...
3. Weld bolts to the existing brackets where I cut the bolts off.  I'm new at welding so I plan to practice a few times and see if I can actually do it first. 

Any suggestions on how to clean up the stainless steel trim.  I believe using 0000 steel wool is what many recommend, but I would rather have your suggestions before I mess up what I have.

[clarkede]

Anyone have any suggestions for a pile of rusty nuts and bolts - many of which are broken?  They are original equipment! 

 

I'm sure many of you have had this situation after doing some restoration work.

[Plymouthy Adams]

and as such when it is no longer original (as in not broken on assembly) toss these for some fresh hardware preferably stainless steel, BUT if you are a purist, and must stay with the stock stuff break out the molasses and let the big dog eat,  weld the breaks, chase the threads and when completed apply for social security......enjoy a few pancakes while soaking your nuts and other hardware

[Young Ed]

You can see the square where the original bolt was cutoff. Knock that baby out of there and put in a fresh carriage bolt. Couple tacks to hold it and you're back in business. I think for the ones where I couldn't sneak the bolt in I cut one side and bent it enough to sneak it in and just welded the slot when I did the bolt 

[clarkede]

Great ideas.  I'll try and knock out the carriage bolts as long as I can do it without messing up the trim pieces.  Also, I think I will start researching where I can get bulk Stainless Steel nuts and bolts and try and replace all I can. 

 

The past few days I have removed the front and rear fenders, hood, and one of the doors so that I can sand and repaint the car.  It's time for a new paint job after 70 years.  I still have to remove the three remaining doors, rear bumper, rear deflector, cowl vent, front and rear windows, etc. before starting to sand everything down. 

 

Oh, and I'm going to do my best at painting the frame and under-side of the fenders and other body parts that are hidden from view to protect them.  I had an old unopened quart can of POR15 Black Glossy Paint - which seems to coat really well.  I sanded a few items down before painting, but I don't think I have to sand to bare metal when using POR15 - right?  It takes so much time to do that and getting to some areas will be almost impossible to sand to bare metal.

 

Here's a picture of where I am right now.... (Sorry it's a mess)

[Sam Buchanan]

8 hours ago, clarkede said:

Great ideas.  I'll try and knock out the carriage bolts as long as I can do it without messing up the trim pieces.  Also, I think I will start researching where I can get bulk Stainless Steel nuts and bolts and try and replace all I can. 

 

 

Try McMaster-Carr:

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/screws/

 

You are going to have a beautiful car!

[Plymouthy Adams]

with all due respect, items needed to exact this repair is common at any hardware store or big box building supply, TSC etc that one can walk in, get the item, pay and immediately got to work repairing.  While mail order from many companies and sites are MOST BENEFICAL when you dealing/needing bulk quantity, I have to state IN MY OPINION this is not the best option for this particular thread.  Heck if it boils right down to it, one can find where a person may park a chevy/gm product and find where these have fallen off and free for picking up.   Ok so the last part is a joke...maybe real at times, but still intended as a jab/joke.  

[Veemoney]

Last year redid the wood bed of my truck. Some of the carriage bolts and nuts I was able to reuse by just a quick brush and repainted them (the heads only) with the POR15 Black Glossy Paint. I used it on my bed strips as well and all these parts were steel. 

 

I looked online for hardware, E-bay, Ace, Grainger to name a few after taking inventory on what I needed that was not salvageable for hardware. I found the best prices for what I needed at Menards online. Based on prices everywhere I decided to go with hot zinc dipped hardware and added the sizes for carriage bolts, washers and nuts to my online cart. Menards will pull your order and have it waiting for you at the pick-up counter but they charge extra for that, so I printed my online cart list and went down and grabbed them myself. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

for the most part our Home Depot, Lowes, TSC and local hardware stores carry a fairly good selection of hardware....NOW THEY DO NOT have everything....and SAE fine stainless does fall in that DOES NOT HAVE  But I do have a company locally that has a better selection and prices and will sell 1 or a thousand with the same courteous service.  Cannot say that for a certain main stream specialty store that by the way went tits up in this area due to the poor management and over the top gouging prices.   For many folks the TSC by the pound hardware is a pretty good deal when you look at.  I was not saying ordering on line was out of the question, sometimes it is the only means to an end on some very special hardware......and I have ordered in my fair share, I do however give the locals a chance to fill the order first so not to have stop/delay a segment of a build/process.  Common sense stuff folks, nothing more.   

[soth122003]

16 hours ago, clarkede said:

Any suggestions on how to clean up the stainless steel trim.  I believe using 0000 steel wool is what many recommend, but I would rather have your suggestions before I mess up what I have.

I usually just buy a box of SOS pads from the dollar store and they work just fine and I haven't notices any damage to items I use them on.

 

Joe Lee

[Dave72dt]

The best I have found so far is Wizards metal polish.  I've tried Mothers and Never Dull and the Wizards works far better than either of the other two.