Errr, shure would like some help on this clutch problem

[Los_Control]

This is a off topic 1991 chebby with a 350/NV3500 5spd.

 

My problem is when I drove it to town today over 1 hour both directions it ran perfect in 110F heat.

When I arrive home I swing wide & back into my driveway ..... was this point the clutch started to squeal. 

I backed into the driveway & shut it off. ..... I restarted it in neutral, the clutch was not working well enough to change gears.

I can put it in gear then start it then move it ..... but the clutch is not working, it is squealing & wants to inch forward with the clutch in.

 

I'm just asking for others opinions on it, Hydraulics do not work as should but full of fluid. Pedal just went away .... & it squeals ..... I think I'm pulling the transmission ..... Any other ideas?

[Sniper]

Sounds like a throw out bearing to me.

 

I'd like to come up and help if I could, but I am booked solid with work till the 4th.  Don't tackle this in the heat of the day it's brutal out there.  Or wait till the 4th and I can help.

[Los_Control]

@Sniper you are welcome anytime .... bang on the door at 3:00 AM we will find a spot for you ...... to come up to help me work on my truck, that makes me feel old.

I would much rather sit you down & cook A fine meal & a cool drink.

 

It is obvious I do not have the hydraulic pressure needed to activate the clutch ..... But I have some pressure & the master cylinder is full of fluid ... so no leaks.

Not sure if it is possible for a slave cylinder to go out  & provide no pressure without leaking.

I'm thinking possibly a throw out bearing came off the fork & no longer doing its job .....    This truck is so fun to drive & never gives any problems.

 

You hit a freeway on ramp, start rowing through the gears you hit 80mph by the end ..... You get the look from the wife. But never ever gave any indications of a bad clutch.

 

Something gave away while backing into the driveway .... I just suspect I will be dropping the transmission .... 8:15 pm & already down from 112F to 106F

[Los_Control]

What really pisses me off, I sold a radio to @Kilgore47 & we were talking about how to ship it .... Then my clutch gave out & I no longer have time to mess with it.

I sure hope they forgive me for a few days while I work this out. ..... I never planned to be stuck with no transportation.

[Sniper]

Thinking throwout bearing because of the squeal.  I suppose if you had a hydraulic leak the fluid might be making the clutch slip and make noise, but you say it's full so that is doubtful.

 

Monday I was in Amarillo, stayed there last night then went to Seminole today.  Tomorrow I am off to Fort Stockton, then Odessa on Thursday and Friday I am in Mentone.  Saturday I head to Lake Jackson to help a friend move, come back, late, Sunday.  I think I am in Abilene Monday, got a job at the county courthouse.  Tuesday is the 4th.  I might be off the 3rd and that job is on the 5th, but whatever.  I don't think that far ahead for work.

 

Got my new work truck two weeks ago this past Friday, over 2700 miles on it since.  By this coming Friday, three weeks, I will be close to 3500 miles, maybe more.  I'll put at least another 800 on it this weekend, about 400 miles each way to Lake Jackson.

 

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

to come up to help me work on my truck, that makes me feel old.

 

Dude, in this heat we are all old.  having another person there to keep you from heat stroking is important.  I am close enough to 60 to see the headlights of that train a'coming, lol.   Besides now that I am on testosterone replacement treatment I can bench press the truck, lol.  I may not feel like I am in my 20's right now, but I can see it from here.

[Dan Hiebert]

I had an '87 S-10 Blazer with the same tranny and hydraulic clutch set up.  Same issue once, too.  Something may have gone awry with the hydraulic clutch release, the doo-dad on the tranny, not the reservoir.  Same basic issues as with a brake system.  I'd think squealing would be the throw-out bearing initially, too, but the truck kind of wanting to move and squealing with the clutch disengaged to me means it is not fully released and the squealing is the clutch slipping just enough to make noise and move the truck a little.  So, the release cylinder may be jammed.  (My event is going on 25 years ago, and I haven't had a Chevy since, so my vernacular may be off.)  I'd check that first before dropping the tranny.   

[Kilgore47]

12 hours ago, Los_Control said:

What really pi**** me off, I sold a radio to @Kilgore47 & we were talking about how to ship it

Take your time with the radio.  Get your truck fixed and then we can figure out the radio.  

[Los_Control]

5 hours ago, Kilgore47 said:

Take your time with the radio.  Get your truck fixed and then we can figure out the radio.  

I have no choice, I think this is what we call life .... I have no control over the situation.

 

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Sniper said:

Got my new work truck two weeks ago this past Friday, over 2700 miles on it since.  By this coming Friday, three weeks, I will be close to 3500 miles, maybe more.  I'll put at least another 800 on it this weekend, about 400 miles each way to Lake Jackson.

 

You sure rack up the miles .....

 

There is no access cover to see anything, I'm certain it is the throw out bearing or the arm/linkage that holds the bearing. Transmission has to come out.

There is a clutch pivot ball inside the bell housing, right now I'm thinking it could be the problem. .... If the stud broke & the arm has come out of position on the ball it would cause the symptoms.

Even in neutral not touching the clutch pedal it squeals like a stuck pig. Worse when you try to use the clutch.

Hoping the pivot arm is not damaged, would have to order it from a wrecking yard & have it shipped A clutch kit from RA is only $150 going to replace it if pulling the transmission.

 

 

 

I had it up on jack stands last night, decided I needed to turn it around pull it straight in instead of backing in. Now I know the trans is coming out.

I'm just taking it easy .... back on jack stands today, this evening when it cools down I might start pulling it apart ....Going to bed early tonight.

I want to be out there at 6:am with air tools ripping it apart before it gets too hot. .... Probably take me 2 days to get it on the ground ..... I will use my 3 ton floor jack to raise & lower it.

 

I was a little freaked out yesterday but got it under control today 

 

[Los_Control]

Think I nailed it for 2 days to drop it. Went really well today and got as far as I had hoped.

Exhaust was a pita, I made a bit of a mess did not have the drain pan  in correct position ....need to clean it up.... not too bad though. drive line ... check.

Only thing left for today is to clean up the work area for the next stage tomorrow morning is to block up the engine ..... set a jack under the trans then loosen the trans & lower it. ...... Then prepare for the wallet flush.

 

So life just keeps happening, our town got some storm damage to the water well fields that supply our town.

They have been fighting issues for a few weeks, then they had to shut things down & make needed repairs about 4 days ago.

They put us under a voluntary water conservation order while they refill the water holding tanks and rebuild pressure.

110F weather, people just use it up as fast as they can replace it & never let the system get built up to proper pressure.

So last night they put the town under a emergency water condition ..... Just shut off the water. They have all the pumps working, they are filling up the water storage tanks to get things where they need to be.

 

So I have not had a shower in over 4 days, my doo rag I wear on my head to keep my long sticky hair out of the way is soaked in sweat, my body is disgustingly sticky from sweat, now I'm covered in grease & oil from preparing to drop the trans. ..... Life would be great if I could just get a shower. 

 

[Los_Control]

Well a change of plans today .... I was so disappointed I went to bed at 12:30 am last night still with no water or a shower .....  I had cleaned myself up the best I could with some of that gritty orange soap for mechanics ... I was miserable not sure would even work on the truck today to get more dirty.

3:00 am & still no water .... wife got up to use the bathroom at 4:15 am & flushed the toilet ..... I got a smile & a good 1 hour sleep.

I was in the shower by 5:30 am & I felt like a brand new man ready to go face the world.  

I then spent a few hours in the garden doing some needed watering and fresh transplants needed to be put in the ground.

 

My transmission would be easy today. I crawled under it late at about 9:00 just to figure out the cross over pipe had to be removed. I thought taking the complete exhaust system loose from the hangers I would have enough room to slide it out of the way ..... was not til 3pm I pulled that cross over pipe out from under the truck.

It really kicked my arse ....going to require some welding but we got er did! .... I needed a beer after that escapade.

 

Now literally I just need to lift it up & remove the bell housing bolts & drop it down.

 

 

I have a bunch of this pipe, I think I will make a cradle that fits into my floor jack, so when I lift the transmission I can securely strap it down so it wont fall off the jack.

Used replacement NV3500 are between $2k-$3k .... I do not want to drop a good one & break the case.

So my 2 day job is now stretched into a 3 day job ..... Same time Friday afternoon, not really worried about ordering parts til Sunday night or Monday morning. 

 

[DonaldSmith]

I find that I can still put in a full day's work, but it takes me a week or two. 

[Los_Control]

11 hours ago, DonaldSmith said:

I find that I can still put in a full day's work, but it takes me a week or two. 

There is so much truth to that .... what we used to do in a day now takes longer ..... But we now do it soo much better.

 

I basically screwed the pooch today and built this. Pretty sure I will not be applying for a pipe fitters job anytime soon.

I feel comfortable enough with it .... I may need some wood shims to get correct angle, I can strap some ratchet straps to the transmission & safely lower it 2 feet.

 

When I was younger we never took the time to do it better ....We  just got er did.

 

Some day I may finish it & paint it, for now I can get the transmission lowered & start ordering parts .... because of the Holiday & 4th July Tuesday .... just no reason to get in a hurry for a parts order.

 

 

 

 

[Los_Control]

What a frigging beast ..... OK @Sniper lets see you bench press this one.

I cant even get it out from under the truck unless I take it off the jack ..... I have no desire to do that.

Glad I built the cradle, it was a battle to pull it ... will be a bigger battle to stab it.

 

 

 

The good news is it is just a old worn out clutch. It just happened the throw out bearing gave up first.

I thought something spectacular may have happened .... just s worn clutch. The inner race came apart from the bearing & sitting lopsided on the shaft.

 

 

The

 

Anyone know a good replacement brand name?

Rockauto has like 15 different  vendors for the 12" dump truck  clutch kit for this truck. I've never heard of any of them.

They sell from $70-$130 .... Then a GM kit is over $300 .... I would rather spend $150 then $300 .... anyone have a brand they have had good luck with?

 

[kencombs]

LUK has a good rep and have been making clutches forever.   Haven't replaced a clutch in a while, but last I used was good.   Good fit, smooth operation etc.

 

Looks like there are several options for that year w/350, type of diaphragm etc.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Put a LUK in the Morris...not driven it yet  but the parts were all first class on arrival.  

[Los_Control]

Thanks @kencombs @Plymouthy Adams Luks sounds perfect to me is what I will order.

 

I still need to remove the clutch tomorrow & verify it is the 12" .... I'm hoping my flywheel is double drilled & can accept a smaller 11" clutch .... I can tell by looking at it it is the big 12".

 

The truck is a heavy duty 1/2 ton & built to pull a trailer. I personally would prefer a lighter 11" clutch if it is a option.

I will order a Luks .... better then just blindly ordering from price.

 

[Sniper]

3 hours ago, Los_Control said:

OK @Sniper lets see you bench press this one.

 

Back in the day, when I was too poor to afford the proper tools I used to drop the trans in my Daytona on my chest and my buddy wold drag me out from under the car.

 

Those days are over, lol.

[Los_Control]

Just now, Sniper said:

Those days are over, lol.

I agree .... there were those days, they are gone for me.

Last Transmission I changed was a C6 in my 1 ton van in a gravel driveway .... I kinda did the same thing but never bothered to strap it down.

I changed the clutch in my 1962 Dodge 1 ton 4spd by hanging a chain over the top of the cab & through the window. .... I have changed some big transmissions.

This one is the biggest by far.

 

It is the baby NV3500, they have the NV4500 that includes a granny 1rst gear then the NV5500 for the larger 2 ton trucks. Just a big heavy transmission.

[kencombs]

Those integral clutch housings sure complicate handling one!   Vehicle has to be much higher than older, separate units in order to get it out.   Sure glad that huge chunk of cast iron in my 55 is not part of the A833OD trans.  That would be impossible without a real trans jack.

[Dave72dt]

If you're looking for less pressure on the clutch pedal, I don't know if you'll find any significant difference between the 12 and 11. 

[Los_Control]

13 hours ago, kencombs said:

Those integral clutch housings sure complicate handling one!  

It sure does. Is my first time dealing with one. I'm not really looking forward to installing it.

There is sheet metal heat shields or sound deadners? Under the body, had to go to a weird angle to clear them to get it out .... will be same way going back in.

Not something I can get in a hurry & muscle my way in ..... just slow & easy, 1" at a time, stop & readjust angle, gain a 1" .... eventually roll it into home.

It will be a all day job.

 

1 minute ago, Dave72dt said:

If you're looking for less pressure on the clutch pedal, I don't know if you'll find any significant difference between the 12 and 11. 

Just wishful thinking on my part. Out of 15 suppliers, only 1 offers a 11" clutch .... more of a red flag warning that it may be in the wrong place .... I ordered the 12"

I imagine a better high quality hydraulic master/slave cylinder would be a easier approach to a softer clutch pedal. ...... Same time the bigger clutch is good exercise.

 

I Just find that being medically retired & having nerve issues in my legs ..... I probably should not have bought a truck with a stick ..... sure gives me a smile every time I drive it though

 

I'm just being lazy today, time to rest up after pulling the transmission. Have some ribs marinating for the BBQ tomorrow.

I have about everything needed to put it back together ordered .... I'm just not touching it til I get everything pressure washed & cleaned up .... good project for tomorrow while the ribs are cooking for 6 hours.

[Plymouthy Adams]

mums is the grille master here, I am the master check writer at the grocery store.....I buy it, I drag it home, I carry it in and often help with putting it away and sure do my part putting it away when cooked.  We going Brats, burgers and dogs....all the fixings....hope everyone has made plans and they all go off without a hitch...my total involvement will be the desert, I laid out some fruit I put away off our trees earlier and will make a cobbler.....actually two of them....enjoy the 4th....if you in my area...serve you a dog or so and you can help carry the van cargo box to the work bay outside the paint booth....HEY, very little is free these days!!!!  ???

 

 

[Los_Control]

Just now, Plymouthy Adams said:

mums is the grille master here, I am the master check writer at the grocery store.....I buy it, I drag it home, I carry it in and often help with putting it away and sure do my part putting it away when cooked.  We going Brats, burgers and dogs....all the fixings....hope everyone has made plans and they all go off without a hitch...my total involvement will be the desert, I laid out some fruit I put away off our trees earlier and will make a cobbler.....actually two of them....enjoy the 4th....if you in my area...serve you a dog or so and you can help carry the van cargo box to the work bay outside the paint booth....HEY, very little is free these days!!!!  ???

 

 

LOL would love to help you carry the box to where needed.

Just the opposite here, my wife is the check writer & makes sure we have a roof over our head .....I'm just too forgetful & will not pay attention to time passing.

I'm just not into time  

 

She takes care of the gas, electric, water, taxes ..... I get the check book twice a year to take care of auto inspections & registration.

I just sign my name on the check then hand it to the lady at DMV to fill out.

But I do take care of all the grocery shopping & cooking.

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is not huge....just a tad bulky for the wheeled pallet it is on to go over grass well.....can put on the modified boat trailer but now I have to lift it a bit....don't want to sit it on the regular trailer, side rails and such...and again don't want it resting on the primed surfaces....will work it out...even if I have to lift it with the gantry crane.  Most of this depends on if I have another set of hands.  

 

 

[nonstop]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:49 PM, Los_Control said:

What a frigging beast ..... OK @Sniper lets see you bench press this one.

I cant even get it out from under the truck unless I take it off the jack ..... I have no desire to do that.

Glad I built the cradle, it was a battle to pull it ... will be a bigger battle to stab it.

 

 

 

The good news is it is just a old worn out clutch. It just happened the throw out bearing gave up first.

I thought something spectacular may have happened .... just s worn clutch. The inner race came apart from the bearing & sitting lopsided on the shaft.

 

 

The

 

Anyone know a good replacement brand name?

Rockauto has like 15 different  vendors for the 12" dump truck  clutch kit for this truck. I've never heard of any of them.

They sell from $70-$130 .... Then a GM kit is over $300 .... I would rather spend $150 then $300 .... anyone have a brand they have had good luck with?

 

I may be odd man out, BUT I would pick the Sachs clutch.  I used to work in a trans shop.  I originally put a centerforce clutch into my 1985 GMC K2500.  Within a year or so, the center hub broke.  I replaced it with sachs at my boss’s recommendation.  Held up great behind a 454 towing and hauling until I finally sold the truck about 18 years later.