Fluid drive shifting question

[uncleaud]

I've been driving my 47 Saratoga for about two weeks now. I am really impressed to say the least. It was in a barn since 87 and took all winter to replace wiring the mice chewed off, replace the brake system, clean the molasses out of the carb, new hoses, etc, etc. all with a lot of help from this forum. Anyway, after all that the old straight eight purrs like a kitten and rolls down the road 60, 65 with some to spare. 

 

This is the first I've ever driven the fluid drive transmission and I believe all is working as it should. Just a question on behavior from some of you who are more experienced. When I take off in low range get up a little speed, let up on the gas, hear and feel a slight click and I'm in second as expected. When engine gets up to speed, use the clutch and shift into high range. From there it just rolls on up. I was of the understanding that I should also feel another shift point by releasing the gas. The motor rolls on up to speed but I don't feel any shift going on, almost like it skips third and goes right to high gear. I can take off in high range and all, kinda doggy but would expect that. Also, haven't notice any temp to downshift when I floor it in high gear. Just wondering if I'm looking for something that isn't there or if it is supposed to be that smooth.

[53windsor]

Mine does the same thing. I hope it's normal.

Edited June 7, 2023 by 53windsor
Punctuation

[DonaldSmith]

For a stately drive, take off in High Range (3rd gear, then it klunks into 4th.)  That was the whole idea.   

[uncleaud]

Thats what seems to be missing is the clunk into 4th. So when I got from low range info high range it doesn't go into 3rd gear first?

[Doug&Deb]

When you let it shift in low range then clutch and shift to high range it goes from 2nd to 4th. That’s normal. The trans works like an overdrive trans. At any speed below 35 flooring the gas should cause a downshift to 3rd. For a quicker getaway try starting in low range but shift into high before letting the trans shift into 2nd. This way you go from 1st to 3rd then lift and let the trans shift into 4th. 

[uncleaud]

1 hour ago, Doug&Deb said:

When you let it shift in low range then clutch and shift to high range it goes from 2nd to 4th. That’s normal. The trans works like an overdrive trans. At any speed below 35 flooring the gas should cause a downshift to 3rd. For a quicker getaway try starting in low range but shift into high before letting the trans shift into 2nd. This way you go from 1st to 3rd then lift and let the trans shift into 4th. 

That sounds like it might be what is going on. Will try it in the morning and get back...Thanks

[Bryan G]

Agreed, mine is the same way. If you shift from low to high range at a slow enough speed you should find yourself in 3rd. I've found there really isn't much point in using low. In the time it takes to do the shifting, you can pretty much just let the transmission do it for you in high. From my experience, it seems best to get into 4th as soon as possible as that is where these engines seem happiest.

 

I've found there aren't too many opportunities to use the "passing gear" feature. I'm not entirely sure if mine is working right now; I keep meaning to try it again. The switchgear on the carb that makes that happen seems a bit finicky.

[Doug&Deb]

Bryan it depends on the carb. The Stromberg on my Dodge has a kick down switch that is a button activated when the throttle is floored. 

[DonaldSmith]

My B&B on the DeSoto has such a button.  (Brass button on the right, brass socket for wiring bayonet on the left.)  (Rebuilt carb, right out of the box.) 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Get one of these "Shift-Rite" down shift knobs.

You have complete control of when the M-5/M-6 transmission upshifts or downshifts.

You can also take off and accelerate and shift smoothly  thru all four gears ..just like the old BW T-10 days!?

Edited June 8, 2023 by Dodgeb4ya
Pic

[greg g]

If you were to read the owner's manual you would see low range was recommended for low traction driving like mud and snow, trailer towing, heavy load carrying, and steep hill descending.  For normal driving conditions (normal for late 40s through mid 50s) high range was recommended. These cars were designed to accumulate momentum rather than briskly accelerate. 

[Bingster]

Where'd you get the carb rebuilt and how much?

[Doug&Deb]

I want that shift rite kit!

[Dan Hiebert]

"Accumulate momentum".  I like that.

[uncleaud]

oldcarbrochures.com is a big help.

[uncleaud]

Think I may have found my shifting problem. After researching the above mentioned site, I realized that the sol. post on the transmission relay should be hot when the key is turned on and the car is stoped or moving at a slow rate speed. This energizes the solenoid on the transmission that allows it to shift into the lower gear of which ever range its in, (first or third). My sol. post doesn't get hot when the key turns on but if I jumper the post I can hear the solenoid click on the transmission. I'm  taking the relay apart today and hoping it is just corrosion on the points.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The relay fuse holder can cause oltage problems...corrosion down at the lower contact metal tab.

Inside contacts are easy to service too.

[uncleaud]

1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

The relay fuse holder can cause oltage problems...corrosion down at the lower contact metal tab.

Inside contacts are easy to service too.

Yep...that was the problem. The bottom of the fuse socket was corroded, once I found it and took the emory cloth to all of it everything worked as it should. Wish I could of found it before I took it all apart?...mark it up as a learning experience.

[greg g]

Most discussions of semi automatic faults, other than leaks,on this forum have been solved by attention to external circuits and assemblies.  The gear boxes themselves  are pretty much bullet proof. Glad you got it sorted.

 

You are now free to accumulate momentum.   Leave it in high range and just drive.

Edited June 13, 2023 by greg g

[Doug&Deb]

By the way pictures are always welcome especially a Saratoga. That’s not often seen.

[greg g]

On 6/8/2023 at 8:56 AM, Doug&Deb said:

Bryan it depends on the carb. The Stromberg on my Dodge has a kick down switch that is a button activated when the throttle is floored. 

I believe the shift rite was marketed to achieve the down shift withhout the adrenalin rush of full throttle operation. 

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

As Greg ^^^ says exactly about the Shift Rite knob...

Soft controllable part or full throttle downshifts. Instead of harsh full throttle downshifts.

Also you can control when at your liking when you want an upshift to happen. Either in low or high range.

Shift it smooth and easy like a four speed if you want...run it thru the gears.

Gear ratio spacing is perfect when doing this four speed shifting when fast acceleration is wanted...once you learn the procedure.

[greg g]

Speaking of momentum, I watched a you tube 0 to 60 run done in a 1950 Nash Aireflite.  It was powered by a flathead six.  The narrator said it was a three speed, with a 4:52 rear-end with borg warner OD.  First run took 27 seconds, 2nd run took 30.  Both runs needed to shift into OD to achieve 60.  Looks like 52 or so had rung her out when it couldn't gain any more rpm in 3rd. He also mentioned it was tired with lots of blow by and oil use. He said he thought factory HP was 85.