Stev Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) Howdy First time posting here as I'm looking for more experienced advice with the chrysler flathead. I bought a 1935 DeSoto Airflow, and pretty quickly after I bought it, it developed a piston slap noise. Took the head off and found #6 pitted with rust. I had not owned it long enough for this to be my doing, and the car had sat for 50 years from 1966-2008, and I suspect condensation got in and did it dirty. I'm just the chump left holding the bag of confetti. I knew it had to come out anyway, as it needed a new clutch, mounts and main seal, so if it needed a freshening up, no real problem there. So I pulled it and took it to a machine shop. My thinking was it could just be bored 1/16th up from 3-3/8 to 3-7/16, which a significant amount of the flatheads had. Cheap NOS pistons, do whatever needs doing, back together. Simple. Skip a year and change later and they finally opened it up, tanked it and gave a quote to me, and it's about double what I was expecting. Including 500 dollars for a set of pistons, and 500 dollars in gaskets. These motors were made in the millions up to 1970something, and the only unique gasket on here is the thermostat housing gasket, which on the airflow was on the side of the head, not top. I also have the original copper gasket which is re-usable if annealed, and even then is only 90 dollars for a new one. Everything else would just be oilpan, manifolds, timing chain cover etc. Which i imagine are common to all these motors, of ready supply and not worth approaching 100 dollars per gasket. Or easily replaced with 35 cents of RTV, if need be. With labor and tax they're quoting about 6500 bucks for a bore out and parts. Am I being unreasonable here or am I right in thinking this is way too much for what needs doing? I'm competent enough to reassemble the motor myself, so i can take that chunk off it. I was told by a member of the airflow club that the non unique parts are available and relatively cheap, if someone could put me on to a source for those I'd love to take that chunk off it as well. Let me know what you think. Edited January 29, 2023 by Stev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of the Airflow engine. I did however rebuild a 3 ⅜ bore 1953 Mopar flathead engine. I bored it over to 3 7/16. I did all my own labor except the machining. I got the majority of my parts from Vintage Power Wagons. I am not sure how many parts from the airflow engine are interchangeable with all the other Mopar engines from the era. Everything has been inflated so much in the past couple years. Everyone has got to eat and try and keep up with rising costs. I’d be inclined again, to do all the engine labor myself and save a lot of money. What your engine actually needs can only be determined by complete disassembly of everything. Then a thorough measurement and inspection of all worn parts. Some examples (but not limited to): -Main and rod bearing clearances -Cylinder taper and out-of-round -Piston ring end gap - crank thrust -crank journal taper -tappet wear -valve set surface contact -camshaft lobe wear Edited January 29, 2023 by keithb7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcel Backs Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 The estimate above is pretty much in line with what it cost me about 3 years ago for American parts, machining and re-assembly. Make sure you are using parts from a reputable US manufacturer when you are rebuilding. The reliability of the final product depends on it. M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Riding Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 Just got my '56 230 cid motor back from the machine shop. They quoted me over $5k to do all parts and labor, with a 6 month lead time. This shop, Schedler's Engine Rebuilding & Supply, Inc. is well respected and has been in business since 1959 with Wayne Schedler, the 80 year old son of the founder, running it now. Like you, based on that price, I decided I could do the reassembly myself, so I told them to do what was needed to be within spec, so they: hot tanked the block and head decked the block bored the cylinders .040 (they had been .030 over) supplied new .040 pistons with new pins/bearings, reassembled cut new valve seats and resurfaced valves polished the crank journals installed new cam bearings installed new brass freeze plugs (they didn't like the steel ones from other suppliers) supplied new .040 pistons with new pins/bearings, reassembled The valves, valve guides, tappets, springs, camshaft, crankshaft, and timing chain were all within spec so I reused them. Total cost - $1,108. It took about 2 months. I was very pleased with the quality of their work. I think I was lucky that a lot of the motor was still in good shape from the prior rebuild they did in 2002. I asked Wayne if he remembered working on the motor from their 2002 rebuild and he said "of course-how can you forget a Plymouth flathead?!" I then purchased rings, main and rod bushings, gaskets, etc from Roberts and AB for another $600 or so. I'm in the middle of assembly now and really enjoying the experience. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 Almost $500 for a gasket set for the engine?? Are these Airflow engine something way special? DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los_Control Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 23 minutes ago, Bob Riding said: I'm in the middle of assembly now and really enjoying the experience. Your wife is looking for her lost bath towel .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Riding Posted January 29, 2023 Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Los_Control said: Your wife is looking for her lost bath towel .... Shhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev Posted January 29, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, keithb7 said: I am unfamiliar with the intricacies of the Airflow engine. I did however rebuild a 3 ⅜ bore 1953 Mopar flathead engine. I bored it over to 3 7/16. I did all my own labor except the machining. I got the majority of my parts from Vintage Power Wagons. I am not sure how many parts from the airflow engine are interchangeable with all the other Mopar engines from the era. Everything has been inflated so much in the past couple years. Everyone has got to eat and try and keep up with rising costs. I’d be inclined again, to do all the engine labor myself and save a lot of money. What your engine actually needs can only be determined by complete disassembly of everything. Then a thorough measurement and inspection of all worn parts. Some examples (but not limited to): -Main and rod bearing clearances -Cylinder taper and out-of-round -Piston ring end gap - crank thrust -crank journal taper -tappet wear -valve set surface contact -camshaft lobe wear Yeah they did strip and dip it for the quote, i'm assuming they looked at all that. They did confirm in the email that the crank is out of round at least, i'll have to speak to them about the rest. Vintage power wagon does list NOS pistons at 75 bucks for a set, which is more or less what i was expecting, i'll have to speak to them I suppose. Also if you're the Keith I'm thinking of, I believe you're familiar with this particular car. Good runner indeed. 1 hour ago, DJ194950 said: Almost $500 for a gasket set for the engine?? Are these Airflow engine something way special? DJ No the engine is the least remarkable part of an Airflow. The unique parts on the airflow motors are clutches (unique year to year), the head/thermostat housings (as they come off the side of the head not the top) and, according to the shop manual, elliptical pistons. And probably the cam, not sure. Everything else should be interchangable with any other floating power era six. I've been asking everyone I know about this and the opinions come in two flavors, either "that's perfectly reasonable" or "that's highway robbery". I think I'm going to talk to the shop and just make sure it actually needs everything they're prescribing, and I might even have to be that guy and shop around other shops. Already talked to Magnem and their prices per operation were at worst equal, at best up to half the price of the one it's currently sitting in. I don't like burning bridges but If it saves a few grand I might have to. I had intended to reassemble it myself but currently I have my Jaguar's IRS scattered across the shop and it's blocking anything from getting to the engine hut in the corner. Guess that's imperative to sort out now too. The link to vintage power wagons was very helpful, they have a gasket set for 108 bucks and NOS pistons for 75, so that's a solid lead for sure. Thanks for that. Also, I know there's two block lengths for a chrysler six. When buying parts, what interchanges between the two, and is there a handy reference as to which engine is which? I don't want to be a chump and get stuck buying the wrong parts. Edited January 29, 2023 by Stev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithb7 Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 Yes I do know that car. I suspect the folks claiming “its hi-way robbery” haven’t rebuilt an engine in the past 4-5years. It used to be relatively cheap compared to today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev Posted January 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, keithb7 said: Yes I do know that car. I suspect the folks claiming “its hi-way robbery” haven’t rebuilt an engine in the past 4-5years. It used to be relatively cheap compared to today. Seems to be the case, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidevalvepete Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 Welcome to the forum. Am glad this car has found a home interested in bringing it back to life. I certainly remember Keith's postings about it. It is well worth preserving and I wish you all the best in your project. Apparently some bits are rare and hard to come by but by connecting with this forum and no doubt others familiar to some of the folks here you will give yourself the best chance of doing a fine job. I look forward to seeing your progress.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stev Posted January 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, sidevalvepete said: Welcome to the forum. Am glad this car has found a home interested in bringing it back to life. I certainly remember Keith's postings about it. It is well worth preserving and I wish you all the best in your project. Apparently some bits are rare and hard to come by but by connecting with this forum and no doubt others familiar to some of the folks here you will give yourself the best chance of doing a fine job. I look forward to seeing your progress.... Thanks. It'll be a lot of work to get it right but it's doable. She might be a mess but she's an honest mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 Lucky you are not doing a rebuild on a CW 385 ci. Airflow... Costs on this old iron rebuild is is going to be sit down...hold your pants....can you afford it?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcDeSoto Posted January 30, 2023 Report Share Posted January 30, 2023 I can't believe these new prices. Prices for common things on new model cars have also gone through the roof. Like $800 for a new clutch! I'm glad I rebuilt my 48 DeSoto engine in 1982 in an ROP auto shop class. The prices were very low and the reboring of the block was free as it was done by my teacher and me. I did have a machine shop do the crankshaft, camshaft, tappets, etc. The new pistons and rings were cheap. I don't think I bought new valves as I ground them myself to factory specs. I should have just bought new ones. Of course I bought new bearing inserts for everything and new valve guides. The gasket kit was cheap, probably in the $40 to $50 range. I disassembled and assembled the engine myself. Then, waited some 40 years to get it started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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